5m NW's happily awake for an hour around 2am!

[braydonjames]

Hi, my 5m old DS2 WAS a sound sleeper from 6weeks, then hit 11wks and regressed after his growth spurt and dummy weaning. He is FF(180-240ml per feed), in our room until he STTN (soon we hope), self settles with his day and night sleeps, sleeps well during day and has a DF. Activity is mixed and includes mat time and watching DS1 in adoration.Towards the end of A I cuddle him to calm and not OS so he’s ready for nap/bed. No prop, has a lovie by him, but he doesn’t seem ready to use it yet. I have two problems that have been going on for months, maybe related.:

1)He wakes most nights between 8 and 10 screaming uncontrollably, not much I can do to calm him but never lasts more than a few minutes and he’s asleep again. I can usually tell if it’s going to be a rough night if he does this. All I tend to do is turn him to his other side, or readjust him slightly and ‘ssh’.

2)He wakes about 50% of the time around 2-2.30am for an hour!!!He’s not upset, he just tosses and rolls his head looking around. Towards the end of the hour, he gets restless (and I’m exhausted) and I tend to turn him to his side and he’s asleep within the minute!

A good day (which can’t change too much with DS1 routine!!):

7am-wake,feed
8.30am-sleep
10am-wake, take DS1 to creche
10.30am-feed
12-bring DS1 home,sleep
1pm-wake, feed
3pm-sleep
4.30-5pm-wake, feed
6.30/7ish-feed, bed
10pm-DF

 He’s only started solids this week, no change either way. He’s not waking due to hunger as he hasn’t ever finish his morning bottle. My only thoughts are-am I doing accidental parenting by turning him to his side?will this end when he’s more mobile?Is his screaming sessions due to fear? As his NW aren’t every night, I can’t imagine they would be habitual? Even though he’s in our room, we don’t seem to wake him, he wakes me tho!! I understand if this has to continue for a while, (tho I would like him to share his brother’s room not ours!)  but I’m more interested to know why this happens.
Thank you:)

[becj86]

1)He wakes most nights between 8 and 10 screaming uncontrollably, not much I can do to calm him but never lasts more than a few minutes and he’s asleep again. I can usually tell if it’s going to be a rough night if he does this. All I tend to do is turn him to his other side, or readjust him slightly and ‘ssh’.

This one sounds like pretty classic overtiredness - does it tend to happen after he hasn't napped so well during the day or ends up in bed a bit later than usual? It could also be overstimulation... similar symptoms.

2)He wakes about 50% of the time around 2-2.30am for an hour!!!He’s not upset, he just tosses and rolls his head looking around. Towards the end of the hour, he gets restless (and I’m exhausted) and I tend to turn him to his side and he’s asleep within the minute!

This one sounds like undertiredness. Perhaps he napped a little longer than usual or went to bed a little earlier - maybe at the 1.5hr A time... At 5 months, LO's are usually having A times of up around 2.5hr on their way to dropping the catnap around 6 months, so your DS is having some pretty low A times in that routine...

[braydonjames]

Thanks so much for the reply!

[This one sounds like pretty classic overtiredness]
Yes, I can see how that would be and so I will try starting his bedtime routine earlier. It would mean that his A time at the end of the day will be quite short but he seems ready for bed early.

[LO's are usually having A times of up around 2.5hr on their way to dropping the catnap around 6 months]
Yikes, I felt I was just reading his cues. I know he should be on a 4hour routine now, and can see how it may work. I will attempt moving his routine that way and hope for better sleep.

One question tho, is it possible to have both issues in one night, as that more than often happens? As in, he will scream/cry between 8-10 and then also be awake for an hour or so around 2am. Is it that he's overtired in the early eve just before bed and yet also have too much sleep during the day?

[becj86]

As in, he will scream/cry between 8-10 and then also be awake for an hour or so around 2am. Is it that he's overtired in the early eve just before bed and yet also have too much sleep during the day?

In my experience (which is only one child), this is usually Undertiredness and Overstimulation - so overstimulated at bedtime and so wound up that when he has to get through a transition soon after BT, he somehow can't... then still has that long NW in the early AM.

The other thing that waking early in the AM could be is discomfort, from teething or similar. WDYT?

[Erin M]

I'll also add that I think with having older kids, overstimulation is pretty normal, especially as they get older and more aware of their surroundings.  I'm also wondering about that second nap being shorter than the third one -- you're doing longer A times after your shorter naps so I wonder if some tweaking there is in order.  I see that his first nap has to be the length it is because of picking up ds1, but does the second one have to be that length as well?

[braydonjames]

Thank you for your replies

[overstimulated at bedtime] and [having older kids]
Yes, I can see how he could get overstimulated with DS1 all excited about Dad coming home from work! I think I might see if it would make a difference if he were with me in the kitchen preparing dinner than with the excitement in the lounge.

His early waking could be discomfort, I would be if I were in the same position for hours! And it does make sense that when I turn him to his side he drifts off easily enough. Perhaps when he's out of his swaddle and can roll more easily it won't be an issue, but he seems to prefer being swaddled for now.

[second nap being shorter than the third one]
Yes, he seems to prefer his cat nap then? Well, that's what I thought, and when he wakes he's happy and ready for play. Should I be sh-patting him back to sleep? I could shorten his A time after his short nap. If he were to drop his catnap around 6months, then it would be best if he slept longer around lunch than afternoon.

I have started the 4hr routine, so we will see what unfolds with his sleep. Thank you, I will post again in a few days with feedback regarding your much appreciated advice:)

[Erin M]

I honestly don't know if it will make a difference, but I might see if you could try stretching that second nap -- sometimes when I'm not sure what to do, I tweak where I can and hope it helps.

I meant to add earlier, I have 3 kids and I found with my ds that he had a hard time with overstimulation at first, but eventually grew out of it messing with his sleep -- it just took some time -- it's just hard because there's not a whole lot you can do about it!

[braydonjames]

see if you could try stretching that second nap

Thankyou!

The great news is that I stretched his second nap with shpat and after a few days, he didn't wake after the 45min, so now he's having his big sleep in the middle of the day and the 45min catnap in the late avo and it has being so successful! His happy early wakings of an hour or so have stopped!!! I must admit I was quite apprehensive about doing shpat while DS1 was asleep next door incase DS2 cried and woke him, but that didn't happen! It was well worth the few minutes of shpat as it meant we can all sleep through the night now!

The minor not so great news is that DS2 is still a little overstimulated and only time will help him adapt I guess, so he does cry after 45min of being asleep in the eve. But really in the big spectrum of things, I can now see he will grow out of it and I'm very fortunate that this is the only issue now, so very grateful.

Thank you so much for your help, you're so fantastic at allowing mother's like me to understand with your clear views and supporting us when we attempt to 'tweak' routines!!! It has certainly helped my household's sleep:)

[Erin M]

Yay, glad to hear it. 

In regards to the overstimulation, time should work it out, I know that's what happened with my ds.