Author Topic: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed  (Read 4744 times)

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Offline Violet's mom

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2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« on: November 17, 2013, 15:01:40 pm »
Hi!  Violet was doing really well for a few months thanks to all of your help!

She has had EW for about 3 weeks now and I've been trying the short am/long pm nap and it's been all over the place.  Her wake up for the day runs anywhere between 5 and 5:30.  She has always been an early riser which is fine with me when it's after 6 am.  I'm tempted to do an ebt but she is never tired at night - when I out her down she goes down very easy and is very happy from afternoon nap wAkeup to bedtime no matter when she wakes from her nap.  She recently started STTN also and has dramatically increased her solid intake.  Developmentally she is starting to walk and possibly getting top two teeth?

Typically this is what I aim for:

WU 5:30am - plays in crib happily
6:15 get her and BF (not starving at this time - barely eats and wants to play)
7:30am BF
8am breakfast
9:30am - 10:30am nap (sometimes earlier if she is showing strong tired signs)
11:30 BF
12:15 lunch
2:00 or 2:30 nap 2 (she can sleep all night at this point - I wake her after 2 hrs - should this be less?)
4:15 WU (at the latest) and BF
5:15 dinner (this is when DH gets home and she really enjoys her dinner with him - it takes her about an hour to eat!)
6:15 bath
6:45 bedtime routine and final BF (doesn't take much at this feeding)
Asleep by 7/7:15.

I know it's a long day for her and her nights are way too short.  I haven't tried ebt because she is not even tired until I start her bedtime routine at 6:45.  And poor DH would never see her!  But if you recommend it I will give it a try this week - thanks for any suggestions!

***update - put her to bed early tonight (6:30pm) and she woke up after 45 mins - hasn't happened in a long time - she resettled after a couple of moans and some moving around...  Usually when bedtime is at 7 she doesn't wake at all...  She did a 1.5 hr am nap and a 45 min pm nap (woke at 3:45pm).
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 00:28:17 am by Violet's mom »


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Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2013, 13:08:00 pm »
When was WU this morning after the EBT?
If it worked well for you then I would continue with the EBT.

EBT always need some time to work, but if you don't think that it will help you then I would rather play around with the naps. I would shorten one of them (the one that you want to be shorter) to 45min and allow the longer nap to be 1.5h, not more than that. And see if that helps :)

Good luck!
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Offline Violet's mom

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2013, 14:06:36 pm »
Today she got up at 12am, 1:15am, and 4:55am for good so ebt didn't seem to help - she used to respond immediately when she was younger but not anymore...  Ok I will try the nap thing.  Today is shot because DH put her down for a nap at 6:40 (I went back to bed at 6 and he took over)... But I'll go to bed early and start tomorrow.  Thanks for the response!


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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2013, 17:34:12 pm »
Let me know how it's going :)
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Offline Violet's mom

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2013, 18:12:00 pm »
Going strangely haha. 

She woke at 7:40am
Seemed tired around 11am but refused nap
Just put her down at 12:50pm
Not sure what to do about the rest of the day?  Let her take as long as she wants and do a normal bedtime of 7pm?  Or cap this nap and do an early bedtime?  I figure the longest she'll sleep is til 2:45ish


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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2013, 13:41:19 pm »
Don't know what you did in the end but I would have let her have a full nap and a normal BT.
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Offline Violet's mom

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2013, 13:46:02 pm »
Yeah I did.  She stayed up pretty good even though it was almost 4.5 hr - took her to grammie's so she could have a little change in scenery and it helped.  Today she woke around 5:15am so I just put her down to nap at 8:45am (was very tired) which was earlier than I wanted but I will wake her after 45 mins and try for 1.5 hr later today around 1pm.

Thanks for your help.  No night wakings last night so she must respond well to a 7pm bedtime.


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Offline Violet's mom

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2013, 00:03:29 am »
Today went as follows:
5:15am wakeup
8:40am-9:25am nap
1:30 - 3:10 nap
7pm bed.

Thanks for your help - she was actually relatively pleasant except for a little bit around 4:30pm (probably hunger related).
We will see if there's any improvement tomorrow am - I will keep at it for a few days and hope for the best!


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Offline Violet's mom

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2013, 11:21:50 am »
Still a 5:15. Am wake up today...


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Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2013, 13:36:19 pm »
Is it every day at 5:15? That sounds like it might be habitual. Will you try W2S?
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Offline Violet's mom

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2013, 13:54:59 pm »
Is she too old for it?  I'll try anything!  Is there a chance it'll make her start waking earlier?


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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2013, 14:05:09 pm »
I don't think so, but if you are too concerned then don't do it. I don't want you to stress over this. We can try and continue tweaking the A times and naps.
I would try and push the first A time by 10-15min and see if it helps. Often the 1st A time is connected to EW. At the same time keep 1 nap at 45min and the other at 1.5 like we talked before.
If after 4 days - a week there is no change, V is still content and doesn't see OT then I would keep pushing A time (perhaps as well before the 2nd nap) by 10 minutes.
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Offline Violet's mom

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2013, 14:28:46 pm »
Ok well today it is 9:30am and she still hasn't shown any sleepy signs.  I'm going to try to put her down for a nap soon.  She's almost 10 months now (by due date she is 10 months - she was late) so I'm wondering if she might be one of those rare babies who head early to one nap.


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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2013, 13:11:40 pm »
Alon was also on the early side of being on one nap, but it still took a bit of time. Bu 1y he was already on one nap.
If you think this is the case with Violet then I would work on shortening the first nap and at the same time pushing the second nap to the middle of the day. It will take you a little while to do that because if you just put her on one nap then she is going to be very Ot for a long long time.
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Offline Violet's mom

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2013, 15:26:58 pm »
Yeah she had a very OT day yesterday.  She was waking 30 min into both naps but resettled luckily.  Her night sleep changed though - she woke at 5:15 like normal and tried putting herself back to sleep - I went in around 6 because she started crying and nursed her and she fell back asleep until 7.  Put her down for a nap at 10:15 (not sure about a time since she was awake for almost an hour) which was not easy.  She was in a much better mood this morning.  I will wake her at 11 and should the next nap be 2:30 - 4pm?  Or earlier since she only had a 45 min nap?  I'll check her sleepy signs and try to figure it out - when she is OT (like yesterday) she doesn't show sleepy signs ever - I probably should've known that for yesterday.

Thanks for your help!


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Offline Violet's mom

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2013, 08:05:08 am »
Horrible day.  Fussy/cried all day.  Woke her for am nap after 45 mins, put down after 3 hrs, slept for 1 hr 15 min pm nap and was miserable all night until bedtime - didn't even like bath.  Just spent an hour in motn trying to get her to sleep. 

I'm so tired.


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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2013, 13:31:26 pm »
Hugs, sweetie, the 2-1 transition is a drainer.
IIWY I would actually keep doing just that and not change anything more for the next few days - so the same amount of A times, then 45min for first nap and allow 1.5h for second nap. IF EW doesn't change then I would shorten the first nap by 10min and see if it helps.
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Offline Violet's mom

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2013, 14:14:04 pm »
Is there anything I can do to make sure she doesn't do another 1 hr 15 min nap?

Thanks for your help


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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2013, 18:58:18 pm »
Should I just accept that she gets up at 5am?  I feel like we've taken twelve steps back - she cries going down for naps and bed and can't be soothed easily anymore - her a times are lowering and she had a l hr crying fest last night and another short nw.  Is this normal?  Will things get better?


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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2013, 10:00:29 am »
Another 4:50am waking.  This isn't working.  I'm at my wits end.


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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2013, 13:30:07 pm »
Could you post your EASY of yesterday or today and I will ask for some more eyes?

There is nothing to do right now with the 1:15h nap, IMO. It's hard to know if it's OT or UT so I would just wait it out a bit to see if it stretches.
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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2013, 14:11:05 pm »
Hi Tracy!  The 2-1 transition is so tough, lots of hugs to you  :-*

I'm happy to throw my two cents in once you post your EASY :)  Just a thought, the sudden decrease in A times and long nws sound like teeth to me.  Is it possible that she has a tooth that is close to cutting?

I shoukd mention that dd1 was on one nap at 9.5months, so there are babies that are ready for it earlier :)  There were times during teething or sickness that we had to go back to 2 naps, but we just had to remember to push back to 1 nap once she was feeling better.

Offline Violet's mom

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2013, 14:30:45 pm »
Well today she was up from 4:50am to 5:30am and then went back to sleep until 7:00am.  So thank god she is not fussy yet today.  It usually happens after her 45 min am nap that she gets really fussy the rest of the day.

So our easy will go as follows:

E 7
A
E 9:30
A
S 10:15 (if sleepy) - 11
A
E 12
A
S 2:00 or 2:30 for goal of 1.5 hrs
E 3:30 or 4
A
E 5:15 dinner (the only meal she really eats consistently)
A bath, snuggles, book
E 6:45 bf
S by 7.

Thinking about trying for a 1 hr am nap today to see if that helps?  I don't know anymore...


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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2013, 17:37:01 pm »
So I think part of the problem may be A time after tht long pm nap.  If she sleeps 1.5hrs and wakes at 4pm then 7pm bedtime is too early.  That may be why you are getting ews.  Essentially during the 2-1 transition you want to have the short nap as more of a ut nap, so they can wake and can do A time after without getting too cranky.  Then after the long pm nap you need to have a normal A time before bed.  Does that make sense?

Unfortunately during the 2-1 transition days can get to 13hrs long before LO is ready for one nap days.  So bedtime may need to get closer to 8pm in order to keep wakeup around 7am.

So if it were me I would try keeping that am nap at 45min, the pm nap at 1.5-2hrs and increase A before bed to 4hrs (slowly, maybe by 15min at a time, then hold for a few days).  What do you think?

Offline Violet's mom

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2013, 21:12:36 pm »
We tried a later bedtime for almost a week and it made her get up at 4 am or have lots of night wakings...  We could try that - I don't really expect for her to sleep until 7am (6 or 6:30 would be more than ok - next months she has to be up by 6:15 in order to bf before I leave for work).  Maybe that will be he next thing I try next week?

Based on what you said, do you think we should be doing a long am/short pm?

Today I let her sleep 1 hr in the am to see if it would help her fussiness.  It helped a little - she was still fussy but not as bad.  She did 10:15-11:15 and DH put her down at 2:45 for her pm nap and I will be waking her at 4:15 if she isn't up already.  She made it past 1 hr 15 mins for the first time in days for this nap though.  I've noticed that her evening a time can't really be more than 3 hours or she is a hot mess for bedtime and bath time... 

Thanks for the advice and I appreciate your support!


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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2013, 12:56:46 pm »
It really is up to you whether you want to do long am/short pm or short am/long pm.  I tend to lean towards long am/short pm because then even if am nap fails I know I still have a chance for a long pm nap.  But if you have no problem getting either nap, then it really is just a matter of whatever works!

I think most LOs are cranky by the end of the day and/or after their shorter nap at this stage of the 2-1, it is just the way it is :(

Offline Violet's mom

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2013, 14:55:58 pm »
Thanks for the advice.  Did a 1 hr am and a 1.5 pm and bedtime of 7:15pm and she woke around 6:30am!  Going to stick with this for a couple of days and hopefully it'll get better - she was pretty happy yesterday before bedtime - a little clingy/fussy after her 1 hr nap still so I might play with it in a few days...  Maybe just see if she can get used to that.


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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2013, 16:16:36 pm »
Yes, give it a few days and go from there :)

Offline Violet's mom

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2013, 15:41:36 pm »
Ok so it's been a few days.  She slowly started waking up 10 mins earlier and earlier until the past two days she woke at 5:45.  Three days ago she woke at 5:20am but I let her be and she fell back asleep around 6 until 6:30. 

Thinking of trying the long am/short pm route?  Is this an indicator of needing that?  She has only been doing 1 hr 15 min afternoon naps.  She really does poorly on a 45 min am nap...

Yesterday's easy:
WU 5:45am
Nap 9:30 to 10:30
Nap 2:30 to 3:45
Bedtime 7:15.


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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2013, 17:02:03 pm »
Honestly, whether the 45min nap is in the am or pm, you may find she is cranky after it.  At least if it is in the pm then you only have to get her to bedtime...I always liked the pm cn because that meant dh was home to help deal with the crankiness ;)

Is there one nap that she is guaranteed to take as her longer nap?  I decided on long am because both my girls would alwaystake the am nap, anandit was usually the longer nap too.

Offline Violet's mom

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2013, 18:57:20 pm »
Thanks Tink.

Yeah she was taking 1.5 to 2 hr for both naps before the transition and EW started so I'm not sure...  Today I tried for the long am nap but she only slept for about 1 hr 10 min - I think I trained her too well to wake after 1 hr!

I'll play around a little more.  Just starting to accept the 5:30 wAkeup - hate having a cranky babes



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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2013, 15:09:21 pm »
Ok so we have had a 6ish wAkeup with a 1-1.5 hr am nap and a 1 hr pm nap.  She shows tired signs around 8:30am so I feed her and she perks up and doesn't show any tired signs after that...

The past couple of days she has really been resisting naps and bedtime.  I've been putting her down for her nap around 9:45 or 10 am and she has to be rocked to sleep or she just screams.  I have been leaving her more with DH or sitters so there might be some SA creeping in...

No tired signs for pm nap but I usually try to put her down around 3 and wake her at 4pm.


Her bedtime has been 7:15pm for a long time but last night was unusual - she didn't fall asleep until 7:30 or so which usually she goes down immediately.  And she's had a couple of nw here and there for a minute where she cries out and then goes back to sleep.

Should I try one nap?
Thanks for the advice as always!  She's been very happy lately however.  Except when I try to put her down haha


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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2013, 15:36:05 pm »
Hi violets mom!

Your routine sounds a little like ours at the min, have you tried a shorter PM nap? M now does AM nap at 10am for about 1hr 10 to 1hr 30 and PM nap is around 40 mins i like her to be awake no later than 3.45 so that she is tired enough for BT. Could you try shortening that PM nap a little more?

Hope all is well other than the EW 😁
Jody
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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2013, 16:40:31 pm »
Thanks jodes - miss the ladies in the birth club!

I've tried the shorter naps a couple weeks ago but she is just so miserable afterwards that I'd rather have a EW haha.

 Just trying to determine if we need to try some one nap days before she begins daycare next month  :'(


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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2013, 17:33:42 pm »
It really is up to you, but if she is cranky after a 45min nap she is going to be REALLY cranky on a one nap day  ;)  I would try cutting that pm nap down to 45min before trying one nap days.

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2013, 17:44:07 pm »
Aww bless her. I would see also trying to cut down that PM nap (even if its 5 mins per cut down) to ease her into it!

Its so hard! Hope you figure something out x
Jody
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Offline Violet's mom

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2013, 21:12:16 pm »
Waking her in 5 mins - wish me luck!  Had to APOP her to sleep and she didn't fall asleep until 3:30!  Ugh.

Yeah tink you are totally right about her being miserable on a one nap day - didn't even cross my mind!  That's why I love this site  :D


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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2014, 16:51:57 pm »
Ok so we've had three one nap days over the holidays and she actually held up nicely!  But that was mixed in with 2 nap days.  I'm doing long am short pm now and wondering just how short her pm should be.  Yest am nap was 1 hr 35 min, so I did a half hour pm nap and she woke at 5am for a 15 min party but thankfully put herself to sleep until 7:15! 

So right now we are heading towards noon and no sign of needing a nap...  I'm going to put her down at noon now.  How short of a pm nap do y'all do?


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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2014, 20:55:58 pm »
If she has a 1.5hr am nap, I keep pm nap at 30min :)

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2014, 09:16:11 am »
Agree we would have a 30 min nap after a 1.5 AM nap!

Sounds like your heading on the right track! X
Jody
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Offline Violet's mom

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2014, 12:06:26 pm »
Yeah we had a 12-2:15 nap yesterday and she was pretty tired and ready for bed by 6:30 but I kept her up til 7 - she woke at 6:15am so I think today will be a 2 nap day.  Guess I am alternating much like ll&j.


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Offline goldmom

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2014, 21:15:36 pm »
Just read through some of your posts. Wanted to mention that with DS we kept 2 naps for a while, but increased his overall length of day. Not sure exactly the time frame we did it in, but we pushed his BT from an original 6:45 to 7:30 in 15 minute intervals, over the course of a few months (WU was usually between 6:15/6:30). When he was about 12 months or so we also started keeping a light on in the hallway so he could "read" in his crib before falling asleep after BT at 7:30, some nights that was 10-15 minutes later, and on the rare occassion up to 30 minutes (after reading the book to him we put it in the crib for him and just closed his door when we knew he was sleeping). This way he was falling asleep when he was ready, and not forced to when we thought it was time. This didn't cause any BT resistance or EW's (never really had that issue) and it even helped that he would sometimes read in bed in the mornings before calling out for us to get him up.

Looking at DD now, she wouldn't be ready for reading with a light on yet, so your LO may not be ready for it yet either, but it's something to think about/consider when you have 2 nap days.

Offline Violet's mom

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Re: 2 to 1 transition routine help needed
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2014, 02:04:00 am »
Ok thanks - we had a 4am cot party yesterday because I fell asleep trying to APOP her afternoon nap and we slept for half an hour instead of 15 mins haha.  She was with grandpa today so we will see how tonight goes - she's taking an 1.5 to 2 hr nap around 11am and I give her a little catnap later on and that was going well for a couple days (daycare wants her to take a nap at noon with the other kids eventually - they said she will be too busy to sleep until the other kids go down - luckily she doesn't take being OT too bad anymore)

Thanks for the idea - she loves books so I think she will like that!


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