Need some help with almost 10 mo

[lilac83]

Have a great time at the cabin!

If he's only averaging 12.5-ish hours per day and that's been going on for awhile, I would have to say he's in a bit of an OT cycle. Even with the long morning nap, it's not enough cumulative sleep. It will be easier to figure things out when you get back, so for now just enjoy your vacation!

What I would do though (if you want to try this when you get back or whatever) is to start cutting the AM nap instead of the PM nap. Even though he does a nice long AM nap, it doesn't seem to be helping him. If he takes a 45min AM nap, then there may be enough day left for him to take a 2/2.5hr PM nap. Even if he gets the same amount of sleep, that may still help him overcome the OT before bedtime and help his nights stretch out again.

[hjrmom01]

Robin, after today I think you're right we're in a downward spiraling OT cycle.  He did about 1 hr and 30/35 min this am, we went grocery shopping and he started to get crabby after about 2 hr, then went into a screaming FIT and I had to pretty much rock him to sleep in his carseat in the parking lot! He made it about 2.75/3 hr...and then of course only slept 45 min! 

When we get back, he'll obviously be OT but what kind of routine do you suggest as far as A time? 
up at 7
nap 10:15-11
nap 2:00-??

I just don't know how long to make that first A time!  I'd be willing to do it up at the cabin, too, it shouldn't really make a difference home or away, right?  OT is OT! 

Thanks so much for your help!  I really appreciate it. 

[huntersmummyinoz]

hun, on the counting wake up from 7am, that was what was suggested as H never let you know when he was awake and it varied greatly from 6 to 7am. however, you mention that he is usually awake at 6.15ish these days, sooooo may be time to actually count A time from then instead.

if you are suspecting OT, then maybe try nap earlier around 10am for a couple of days, then let him sleep longer for that second nap too. if he sleeps at least 1hr15 for that am nap on the earlier time then stick with it, but if it starts dropping to 45/50 min UT naps, then nudge it a little later 10/15mins at a time. that should at least help you out whilst you are away. then give him a few days of settling in back at home and reassess from there.

enjoy your trip hun

[hjrmom01]

Thanks for the advice Kirry.  I'm not always 100% sure when he's waking...sometimes I catch him because I'm already awake (now I'm habitually waking!) sometimes I can hear him. 

I think I will let him sleep at 10 for a while and then pray for a good pm nap!  I think we'll just try to survive while we are away, pray for the best, and get back to it when we get home!

[lilac83]

Not sure if you've left for the cabin yet or not, but I definitely agree with Kirry to start counting as close to wake up time as possible. So his first nap should probably start between 9:30am - 10am. I would then let him sleep until 11am until he's out of OT. If he's still sleeping at 11am wake him. Then he should be good until 2pm/2:30pm and let him sleep until 4pm/4:30pm if he will. That should help him catch up quick. Once his nights are back to normal, you should have no problem limiting the AM and getting a longer PM.

[hjrmom01]

Hi! Made it back safely, survived our trip...H actually didn't do too bad.  We've had some odd naps, nights.  Been doing a shorter AM nap and longer PM nap but the pm nap really isn't that long.  Did manage to get a 12 hr night once!  I'll post back after I get H down and see what you all have to say!

[hjrmom01]

Ok, so this is what our weekend looked like. I think I got him out of being OT and considering we were at a new place with LOT of people, he was sleeping in the pack-n-play for the first time, HE DID GREAT!
7/2 maybe awake before 5:30 but back to sleep until 6:30, up at 6:45
S: 10:00-11:25 in car
S: 3:20-4:30 (had to wake)
A: quick bath at 7:30 cranky
S: 7:50/8

7/3 NW at 2:45ish, held for a few and back to sleep by 3, woke about 6:10, rocked back to sleep 6:20-7
S: 9:50- had to wake at 10:40
S: 1:50-3:20?? (I fell asleep too so not exactly sure when he woke)
A: bath 6:45 CRANKY
S: 7:10

7/4 woke shortly after 7 (12 hours!!!)
nap1 10:15ish-11 (had to wake)
nap2 2-3:20
CRANKY at bath
S: 7:00

7/5 woke at 5:30, tried to get back to sleep..briefly slept, up at 7
nap 1 9:45-10:45
nap 2 2-3:30
bed 7:05 (WAY CRANKY before)
woke briefly about 10:30 but went back to sleep on own

7/6 woke sometime between 6:10 and 6:30, up at 6:53
nap 1 put down 9:35, asleep 9:40-10:15
nap 2 1-2:25 tried to rock until 3:10
bed 6:35
woke about 11:05, went in to reassure and give lovey

7/7 woke about 5:30, slept off and on until 6, went in and gave diluted 3 oz rocked to sleep 6:20-7
nap 1 10:15-10:45 (woke him)
nap 2 1:45-3:15

The night before the 12 hr night he did 10 hrs and I was able to get another 40 min from him. Then he had 2 hrs 10 min of nap and that led to a 12 hr night. But then 2h 15 min of naps gave me a 10.5 hr night?! I'm not really seeing any rhyme or reason to his days.

I think if I could do awake at 7, nap 1 10:15-10:45, nap 2 1:30/45-hopefully 3:30 and bed 7:30 then he'd sleep until 7.  Anyone else have an idea??

[lilac83]

Sounds like H did great on the vacation! I hope you all had a lot of fun!

I don't think there ever is a rhyme or reason when it comes to the 2-1 nap transition. All you can do is try to fit in the sleep he needs so you can avoid OT as much as possible.

I think he still needs 45min nap in the AM. It looks like he's been cranky pretty much every day before bed which makes me think he's still ending up falling asleep for the night slightly OT. So going by your plan above I would tweak it to look more like this:

awake 7, nap 10:15 - 11:00, nap 2:00 - 4:00 (hopefully), bed 7:30. That would fit in a bit more sleep for him and also make that last A time not so long. During this switch, don't be afraid of early bedtime. My DD never fell for an early bedtime but now that she's making the switch she's been known to do some 13hr nights.

[hjrmom01]

Thanks Robin!  He did great again last night, woke at 3:15 from his PM nap and was asleep just about 7:05 and slept until about 6:30 but he woke up fussing and crying, not like him!  I rocked with him because I wasn't ready to get up (long night with the dog  ) and he fell back asleep about 6:50 and I woke him at 7:15.  So maybe the 45 min am nap and then hopefully at least 1.5 hrs pm nap.  We haven't had a 2 hr nap in AGES in the pm so I don't know if he has it in him anymore!

[hjrmom01]

Do you think 3.75 hrs after a 1.5 hr nap is too long of A time before bed?  Yesterday he did that and went to bed right at 7:30 but when I woke at 6:30 he was awake and moving about  I thought he was going to go back to sleep because he kept laying down and being still but then he would just get up and fuss and we finally got up at 7 anyway.  I kept his am nap today the same 10:15-11 and he was quite sleepy when I woke him at 11, took him a LONG time to properly wake up (he kept trying to fall back asleep resting his head on my shoulder  )  I'm just wondering how to work things out if he's only napping 1.5 hrs in the pm no matter what time the am nap is.  Do I let him sleep longer in the am???  It seems like there is no rhyme or reason to his night sleep, one day it'll be 10 hrs, the next 11.5, even though he keeps the same times for his naps.

[lilac83]

I would keep that last A time no longer than 3.5hrs. A lot of times around here, when DD needs to catch up on sleep, her final A time is just a touch past 3hr. Short final A time and early bedtimes do a wonder for any OT that's building up. He's going to be alternating through OT during this entire transition. That's probably the reason for some short nights and some normal  nights. If you think he needs a bit more sleep one day because of a short night, then definitely lengthen the AM nap to 1hr.

[hjrmom01]

Gotcha...thanks!!!  It just seems no matter what we try (30, 45 min, 1 hr am nap) he never goes past 1.5 hr pm nap.  I think that 3 hrs is ok after a 45 min nap, right?  He seems to be handling that just fine.  In fact, we've got about 20 min more to go and he's not showing any signs of being tired!!!  

since he was doing fine I did try the extra little bit of time and he went down just about 2:15 (maybe a few before) which was about 3 hr and 15 min...then woke just before 3:45 so right between 1 hr 25-30 min....am I doing something wrong?! I feel like this is the 45 min nap monster all over again?!!!

[lilac83]

He may actually be able to handle a bit more than 3hr for that second A time. DD usually did about 3.5hrs after a 45min nap. It just takes a bit of tweaking to find out what works best for him.

[hjrmom01]

well I don't know what happened but apparently the moons aligned just right  He went down for the night at 7:15 and woke this morning just after 7 am    I think we'll keep things as is for right now (3.25, 3.25, 3.5) and I can adjust accordingly.  Now I'm sure we can have the exact same day today but his night will be TOTALLY different! 

[lilac83]

Yeah, they like to keep you guessing! At least you have a good plan to go by now though!