10 month old long NWs

[MommyN]

I was also terrified to move him in with his brother, but it was much easier than I anticipated. The first night was disastrous and I ended up bringing DS2 back into our room at around 3:15 a.m. But by he second night neither woke from the other. I was amazed and so pleased! I have to say it is very nice having our bedroom to ourselves again. I'm so not used to it that I keep on going in quietly without turning on the light lol till I remember... Best of luck for whenever you decide to do it. I will definitely let you know how the night goes. I'm so desperate for a good night's sleep.

[trimbler]

Hey there, sorry for the silence - how's it going?

[MommyN]

He slept through last night!!!!! There's hope! Funny enough because it was after a terrible napping weekend.

Wednesday night he woke up twice but I resettled him pretty easily. Up at 6 am.

Thursday:
WU: 6
S: 10-11:15
S: 2-3:15
BT: 6:30
Not a great night. NWs and then up at 5 crying till 6

Friday and Saturday were messy with short naps and late BTs and then surprise surprise, Saturday night he slept from 7:30-6:30! I don't even know what to take from it in terms of routine because the whole weekend was such a mess.  And he woke HSN dS1 at 6:30 

[MommyN]

Can we now safely assume that DS2 is a LSN child who was in an endless OT cycle? Or wait a bit to see if he continues to do 11hr nights? I wonder if I should try for a very late afternoon catnap (say 4:30ish) and a later BT and then pray that he sleeps till 6:30? I've been putting him to bed before DS1 but now if he's going to be waking his bro up early in the mornings DS1 really needs to be asleep by 6. I'm thinking of putting big brother in first and waiting to put little brother in till later. Wdyt?

I'm going to check out the easy board to see if I can find some routines of LSN one year olds.

[trimbler]

So glad to hear you got a good night, finally shame about waking his brother though with just one night though, it's hard to say whether he just crashed from exhaustion after the little sleep he'd had previously, or if he indeed doesn't need so much daytime sleep. You'll need to watch how he is during the day... How was he today after the 11h night? I imagine that if he just needed to crash through mega tiredness, he would still have been very tired today, otherwise if he seemed well rested then maybe he'd just had enough sleep. Could you post what happened on Friday and Saturday?

I'm wondering how he's getting on with the 4h A time in the morning? Those 1h 15min naps could be OT or UT... Watch out for OT building up over a few days, if 4h is too long. Conversely, if he seems to be managing fine and seems well rested after his 1h 15min morning nap, then perhaps it's time to push that first A even further, to try and lengthen that nap again. Then it would be easier to do a late afternoon CN.

[MommyN]

Oh I just typed up a whole response that got lost.

He was happy today. But then again he usually is as long as it's not sleep time.
WU 6:30
S 10:30 -12
BT 6:15

He seemed very tired by the end of the 4 hr morning A time but  was happy all afternoon and went to bed nicely at 6:15.  I am so utterly confused with him!! How can 12.5 hr total sleep be sufficient for a nearly 12 mo?!?! He is a happy pleasant adorable baby no matter how much sleep he gets but is impossible at night!

I do think I should push the nap out more but it's hard to keep him up. Can that just be habit and really he could handle being up longer?  He'll stay up 6 hrs or more in the  afternoon without a problem.

Friday and Saturday are a blur but I'll remember as best as I could
Friday:
WU around 5 crying on and off till 7
S 11-11:40 ( woke up from my neighbor's rooster! I seriously wish I could shoot the thing. This is an urban neighborhood not a farm!  >:(Sorry just had to have a vent)
S around 2-2:30 woke for dirty nappy
BT around 7

Saturday:
WU 5 eventually back to sleep till 7:45
S 11-11:45 now I see likely UT. Not sure why I put him in then
S 3:15/3:30-5
BT 7:30 slept till 6:30

Both nights had some other NWs. Can't recall when and for how long. All the sleepless nights became one big mush in my memory after a while...

[MommyN]

Last night he was up from 3:40 till around 5:25/30  Then back to sleep till 7

WU: 7
S: 11:45-1:20
BT: 6:30

Was a bit of a crazy day because DS1 is not feeling well but DS2 was pretty much happy the whole day. He went in for nap and BT without a fuss.

[trimbler]

Ooh it is tricky isn't it... I was interested to see Saturday's routine actually, it reminds me of the sort of thing which used to work well for my DS. That also fits with what you said about him struggling with long morning A times but easily doing long A times in the afternoon - that's just how my DS was too. So anyway, here's a suggestion to consider - how about going for a slightly UT morning nap, expecting it to be short (or even actively capping it) in the hope of getting a nice long afternoon nap? I found the long pm nap was key for DS as he could then manage a long A to BT, and the combination of those things helped him get a good night. Actually looking at Saturday, perhaps he needs more like 13.5h total sleep? I agree that 12.5h is low, some may do that but those EWs with getting back to sleep afterwards sound like possible OT to me, he may not quite be ready for one nap just yet, or alternatively you may find he can cope well one day but not the next - many LOs go through a phase like that.

This short am nap, long pm nap can be tricky to get the timings right as each LO may be a bit different, but how about something like:

WU 7am
Nap 10-10:30 (wake him if he doesn't wake himself)
Nap 1:30-3:30 (this is where you'll need to play around with A times etc)
BT 8pm

Just suggesting that as it's 13.5h overall, has a long pm A time and 11h night, ie as he did Saturday, but it'll be a lot of trial and error to see what works best. Something to consider, perhaps?

[MommyN]

At this point I'm willing to try anything that may help him STTN. I will miss that long am nap, but if it's not working then it's not fair for me to do that to him, or to the rest of the family for that matter. We all need to sleep at night to function properly...

He woke up with a fever so I'll probably have to wait till he's better. I really hope he didn't catch his brother's hand foot mouth disease! That would be horrible for him poor baby 

[trimbler]

Oh no I hope not either! (((Hugs)))

[zissi]

hey there,
I have been following your thread as we are going through long NW's too. and one thing I noticed with my LSN baby is that she needs to have a day of at least 13hrs to prevent NW's. My dd is 9 months and has an A time of 4 hours which is rather high, I need to wake her from the naps after an hr max and as I said if she gets up at 7am her BT can't be before 8pm. I know that can be tricky if you think your LO needs an early BT due to no second nap. just a thought from me that your LO could be similar?

[MommyN]

Thanks zissi, I will keep that in mind for when he gets better. I'm still not sure how much is from LSN (until a few months ago he did great with short A times so confused  ) and how much is OT. I'm going to try morning catnap and long afternoon nap.
I'm sorry for your NWs . How are you handling the exhaustion?

[zissi]

Im taking turns with DH, he does the first shift and gets me around 2/3am and I do the second shift. (I sleep in the guest room and then him) I also go to bed very early to get the most sleep. and we don't have long NW's all the time, some nights are good. hope things will improve for you soon! if he is LSN its def worth a try! and the first months of my DD's life she had very short A times, it started to change when she was around 5/6 months.

[MommyN]

He is feeling much better now! Thank heavens it was some sort of 48 hr virus and not the HFM!!

He woke up at 6:30, so I tried to put him in at 9:30 for a catnap. He would not go to sleep. I tried again a little later and same thing. I guess he's getting used to the longer morning A times? He went in nicely at 10:30. So that's a 4 hr A time.

I just reviewed this entire thread. What popped out at me is this:

Today was:
WU: 6:40
S: 10:30-1!!!
BT: 5:45 because he wouldn't settle for afternoon nap

And that night he slept pretty well. He woke up but resettled right away and slept till 6. That's 14hr 45min total sleep. The next day he did two 1 hr 15 min naps and had a bad night with long NWs. I think I should stick to working on getting that morning nap longer and doing a very early BT for now. If he sleeps less than 2 hrs would put him in 5:15/5:30. He refuses the afternoon nap but usually has no problem with an early BT.  Based on his history and his family, I think he needs more sleep. He has a very easygoing personality and I believe that is what keeps him going when he is low on sleep. What do you think? I honestly think he is OT.

He was OT last night from 2 days of being unwell with little and inconsistent sleep. He crashed at 6:30 (fell asleep half way through his bottle) and had an hr long NW. There was no way that NW was from  UT. This kind of proves to me even more that he needs more sleep. Do you agree?

[MommyN]

Today so far:

WU: 6:30
S: 10:30-11:50. Woke up screaming and still tired. I worked on getting him back to sleep for 20 min but no luck. I think he was hungry. We are working on less bottles and more solids and he's not used to it yet.

I will try for a catnap and if that doesn't work will do 5:30 BT