desperate for help w/habitual early riser (13 mos.)

[Leosmama]

Hello,

I've posted before about this recently, and thought I was getting somewhere with my 13 mo. old son's early wakings.  Well, things seem to be getting worse again and I feel like I'm literally at the end of my rope.  Here is a summary of our situation:

-About a month ago, I started the gradual withdrawel method of sleep training, and within a few nights my son was falling asleep independently in his crib and sleeping through the night.  At this same time, he began waking every morning between 4:30-5:00 (whereas before, when he woke at night and got nursed back to sleep, he would sleep till 6:00-7:00am).

-A couple of weeks after sleep training at night, I started nap training, which proved to be much more difficult.  I do a winddown, reading him a quiet book in the rocking chair and then holding him for another minute while I hum softly to him.  Then I put him in the crib drowsy, and rub his back.  Often he will pop up and begin crying, or he will lay there quietly but then begin talking and babbling to himself until he gets a second wind.  There have been quite a few nap attempts that weren't successful, and I had to resort to taking him out in the stroller just so he'd get some sleep that day.  I had always nursed him down for naps, but I'm now breaking that habit and it seems like the only way he'll go down for a nap on his own is when he's truly and utterly exhausted.  Or, sometimes my husband puts him down for a nap, which entails him holding him in the rocking chair and singing to him while my son screams and cries until passing out from exhaustion.

-Because most of the time he wakes up at 4:37am on the dot, I decided to try w2s.  Once last week with no success, and then last night I decided to try again.  I went in to him at 3:30am and tried to get him to stir, but he was immovable.  I stroked his head, held his hand, patted his belly, and he barely moved!  So needless to say it didn't work for me this morning.

-We've been dealing with separation anxiety for the past couple of months, so I'm hesitant to do wo/wi.  Instead, I've found that staying in his room with him while he falls asleep for naps works best.  At night, I've gotten to the point where I can leave the room and he'll fall asleep on his own.

Here's what a typical day looks like lately:

4:30-5:00am wakeup; I stay in room with him until 5:30-6:00am, then we get up and nurse
7:00am breakfast (cereal and cup of water)
9:30am snack (part of a whole wheat bagel and cup of milk)
11:00-11:30am lunch (solids and cup of water and/or milk)
12:30-1:00pm goes down for nap (finally - this is after attempting a nap at least a couple of times during the morning)
2:30-3:00pm wakes up from nap (although sometimes the nap is only 1 1/2 hrs, but lately it's been 2 hrs)
3:30pm snack (crackers/cheerios and cup of milk)
5:00pm dinner (solids and cup of water)
6:00-6:30pm bath (sometimes another little bit of milk before bath)
7:00-7:30pm asleep for night

I came to the conclusion last week that he was ready to transition to one nap a day, which is why he was waking up so early in the morning.  For a couple of days, it really seemed to help to keep him up and have him nap for 2 hrs in the middle of the day, and then get him down by 7:30pm at the latest for the night.  There have been a couple of mornings where he's slept till 5:30, but this morning he was back up at 4:37 once again. 

If anyone has any suggestions for what I can do differently, please let me know.  I'm so foggy with lack of sleep that I can't even think straight anymore, and feel like I'm running out of options.

Thanks,

Jennifer

[Leosmama]

oh, and one thing to add-

my husband got him down for a nap at 10:00 this morning, and he woke after only 30 minutes!  This never happens.   Now I'm totally stumped 

[aidenmc]

Hi Leosmama,

I am by no means an expert and I am still in the process of gradual removal to get my 16 month-old to sleep on his own and through the night. It has been verrryy gradual but luckily dh can now be part of the routine (and in fact ds responds better to him than me!). I have had lots of experience with early wake-ups though and I am still dealing with them (though we haven't been earlier than 5 for the last little while). Here are some observations I have made. Aiden would be guaranteed to have an early wake-up when overtired or when waking often in the night (which he had been doing a lot lately). The fact that your lo only took 30 minutes in the am is totally predictable and the only way to hope for an afternoon nap. I gave up on the morning catnap when my son woke early because it often backfired, resulting in one short morning nap and never totalling more than the one afternoon nap would. If it is such a fight to get him to nap in the morning I would just cut it out completely. Also, I have read that a morning nap might perpetuate the problem of early mornings.

If you have just transitioned to one nap lo may be extra tired which could explain the early mornings. Also, if lo was used to nighttime nursing he may be feeling hungry at that time and is not used to going so long without food. That's a tough one, because it sounds like you have been successful in night weaning (I am still feeding once a night, but ds is going through until 5:15ish).

You may also want to consider an earlier night. Aiden is usually asleep by 7, but generally gets at least 2 hours of nap sleep - usually sometime between 12:30 and 3ish. If your lo is not getting that long he may be extra tired an need to go to bed earlier.

Anyway, those are just some thoughts to consider from another tired mother!

Let us know if you make an headway!

Becky

[binxyboo]

I am thinking that you could nurse when he wakes up and put him back down to sleep. Would he do this? Also his bedtime seems way too late if he is getting up so early. I would temporarily make it earlier until you are back on a more age appropriate routine.

[Leosmama]

Thanks for the replies.  Actually, ds took a nap from 2:00-3:30pm, which really helped (although he was pretty cranky when he woke up).  I put him down just after 7:00pm, and he quietly babbled to himself and was asleep by 7:25.  I'm hoping that tonight goes a little better, and I do plan to do a w2s around 3:00am.

I've toyed around with the earlier bedtime, putting him to bed at 6:30, and it didn't make any difference.  In fact, I've often wondered if 10 - 10.5 hrs is all he's capable of at night.  As for naps, he usually does get in about 2 hrs of naptime a day; lately, it's been one 2-hr nap anytime between 12:00 and 3:30, just like your Aiden.  Since he's getting up from his nap around 2:30-3:30pm, he's really not ready to sleep again until 7:00 at the earliest.

The main problem I'm running into with skipping the morning nap is, since he's awake from 4:30-5:00am on, he's totally exhausted by the time he goes down for his one nap of the day at noon.  And yet, it seems next to impossible to get him down for a morning nap, and even if I do, then the afternoon nap is either not going to happen at all, or will happen too late, screwing up bedtime.  I feel like until I can get him to sleep later in the morning I'm never going to figure out what's best for him during the day.

As for nursing him back to sleep, I used to do this at the 4:30 waking, but what started happening was that he wouldn't go back to sleep after being nursed.  That's when I decided to start the total night weaning and sleep training, because I figured what's the point of carrying on with that habit when it didn't even work anymore.  Plus, I'm afraid if I nursed him when he woke at 4:30 he'd start waking again at other times of the night expecting to be nursed.

Do you guys think w2s will really help in this case?  If not, should I just keep putting him to bed at 6:30 and hope that eventually his nights will lengthen out?

Thanks again,

Jennifer

[Katet]

i wouldn't try nursing when he wakes as that actually increased our early wakings & by 12mo many lo's actually start to wake when hunger steps in, so it would "fuel" the habit.

Given at the moment I think overtiredness may be a problem (was for us at that age/1 nap transition) you need to work on that before you can do much else.

Given for his age 13.75 hours of sleep is "average" he is getting less than that.
I'd start by trying for a nap at 9.30am but 15-20mins only absolutely set the timer & wake ... can you take him for a drive & he falls asleep?  Then aim for the mid day nap & let him sleep as long as possible & then a bedtime no more than 5 hours preferably 4.5 hours after he wakes from his nap.
Once you get the noon nap going try to get rid of the 15min nap (cut back to 10) & then stop & replace with a long (for us it was 20mins) cuddle & a snack... you probably will need to bring the nap forward to 11/11.30 for a week or 2.
What also helped me was to say 10.5 MAX A time for the day & bedtime was adjusted appropriately - yep sometimes it was 6pm... but funnily they were when he put in 12.5 hours sleep & the times when I just wasn't able to get him down earlier we got 5am wakeups.
HTH

[binxyboo]

So, if you put him down earlier at night, does he then wake up earlier in the morning?

I consider myself a very tolerant person but I could not accept waking up that early in the morning! (in the middle of the night really) What happens when he wakes in the morning? Does he cry for you?

[Leosmama]

Thanks for the suggestions Kate.  I'm going to try that short nap in the morning (I can take him out in the stroller, and he'll either doze or at the very least he'll get some "rest").  I also like the idea of keeping a limit on A time for the day.  But let's say that I can't get him down for his main nap until 1:00pm, and he sleep until 3:00?  Should I then aim for a 7:00 or 7:30 bedtime, or still try to get him down earlier if he's exceeded the 10.5 hrs of A time for the day?

binxyboo, he almost always cries for me when he wakes at 4:30.  sometimes I'll hear him babbling to himself for 10 min. or so, but eventually he always starts to cry.  In fact, he seems to cry when he wakes up any morning and from most naps these days; guess a sign of overall overtiredness?

[Katet]

I used to pretty much work on the A time amount, I mean if it was going to be 10.75 hours & he got to bed at "normal bedtime" that would be ok, but I would keep things Lower key, but would try to keep it closer to 10.5 or less... still work on 10.5/11 hours now he is 18mo old & average sleep at that age is 13.5 hours.
Like today he woke at 6.15 (about 1/2 hour early for him) & napped at 11.45 but only 1.75 hours (rather than 2.5) & so I know I need to have him in bed by 7pm at the latest rather than 7.45 (normal)

[binxyboo]

He does sound overtired. But if you put him down earlier at night does he get up earlier or does he get more hours in?

[aidenmc]

Hi again,

You situation sounds almost identical to what mine is right now except that I am still giving one feeding at night when he wakes (dh is away and when he gets back I am hoping he will take over that one night waking as ds gets really upset if I go in and don't feed and he ends up being awake longer). Aiden seems to be waking at 5:15 like clockwork and is often tired in the morning. He goes to Montessori for the morning so now an am nap is impossible. He usually naps from 1-3 ish like your lo. Then he is in bed at 7ish.

I know what you mean about him not going back to sleep with that morning nurse. I would have times when I was all night nursing when he would wake at 4:30 and not go back to sleep regardles sof what I did. Sometimes he would only after over an hour and those were the days when he would wake at a normal time. However, as he was up longer he still did not get any more sleep.

I will keep checking this to hear more advice. I have heard that as they mature they get better at sleeping later in the morning so maybe there is hope. YOu have done so well so far though to have you lo sleeping so well! I may try the w2s as well though it does seem so risky!

[Leosmama]

well, just as I was planning to do a 3:00am w2s, he woke at that time on his own!  I got him back to sleep pretty quickly by rubbing his back, and then went back to bed hoping he'd go past the 4:30 mark.  But alas, he woke at 4:30 and I went back in to soothe him back to sleep.  something different was going on, because even while I rubbed his back he was crying, whereas he normally will lay there quietly.  I could hear him sucking on his fist so I gave him some teething tablets, and then he started crying harder so I gave him some Motrin and broke down and took him out of the crib around 5:15 to rock him in the chair.  He was still crying so hard so I nursed him, and what do you know, he fell asleep!  So then he slept till about 7:20 this morning.

He's shown signs of teething for weeks on end, with no actual teeth in sight.  I keep wanting to say that that's what the problem is with his not being able to sleep, but I can never be sure.

I did a little quiet time in the rocking chair from 10:00 - 10:15 (he wasn't sleepy enough to actually catnap), and he made it until just before 1:00, when I put him down for his nap.  We'll see how long he sleeps today.

So I'm going to aim for 10.5 hrs of A time, and see if putting him to bed earlier tonight helps.  To answer binxyboo's question, it seems like when I put him down earlier he still wakes at 4:30, not earlier.  I swear he's got a little alarm inside him that must go off at that time every day!  I hope the pp is right about them getting better at sleeping later as they mature 

[aidenmc]

You're right about the time for lots of teething. I have been dealing with it for months! THose molars are especially hard on them it seems. I have heard that teething contributes to early waking. I wonder thought whether your lo was actually hungry? I know you don't want to feed him at night but maybe he still needs one early in the morning. On the other hand, the fact that he wakes at exactly the same time sounds like habit. I have heard some people go in closer to the tim ethey would normally wake, like 15 minutes earlier. I am still not ready to try that as I dread what might happen if it fails! I am curious about how you went about gradual removal to get your lo off breastfeeding at night. I have managed to greatly reduce it and he can go to sleep without it, but we are still with him in the room, patting his bum and turning on his little musicall toy, over and over again. (I know, another prop but DH insisted and as he was going to do bedtime I had not choice but to go along with it - plus it has really helped him get to this stage). Did you post on your experiecne doing gradual removal?

[Leosmama]

So it's official; poor ds has a cold    That would explain at least the past couple of days of fussiness and difficulty with sleeping, although these problems have been going on for a while now.  But I put him in bed at 6:15 and he was asleep by 6:30, so hopefully this will help him catch up on some rest.

Becky, I'm sure hunger plays some role in the early wakings, but the fact that he wouldn't even go back to sleep after nursing at that time convinced me that there was another issue at hand.  I have to say, not nursing him through the night wasn't nearly as difficult as I imagined, and believe it or not, he doesn't always seem as ravenously hungry when I do nurse him in the morning as he was when I first night-weaned.  The gradual withdrawel method I used really was about gradually going from staying with him as he fell asleep, to moving a little further away from his crib every 3 nights until eventually I was out of his room but where I could hear him.  I didn't gradually cut out the night nursing, since I was down to just 1 or 2 a night anyway; I basically stopped all night nursing on the first night of sleep training.  I just offered him water if he woke, and sometimes he'd take it, and sometimes not.  Then I stopped offering the water and I'm telling you, after just a few nights of this method he was sleeping through the night so it wasn't even a problem.

I'm feeling a little leary of doing any more w2s; I know it takes time to work but even when he has woken briefly an hour or so before 4:30 he still wakes at 4:30 anyway 

[Leosmama]

So here's what's happened so far today; could anyone tell me if I'm on the right track, or totally off base?

-he went to sleep at 6:30pm
-woke at 4:35am, I went in and stayed in room till 5:15 when we got up and nursed
-breakfast at 6:30am (oatmeal and cup of water)
-nap at 7:40am (he was truly tired, and since he's got this cold I figured I should let him sleep whenever he can)
-woke at 8:40am
-snack at 9:15am (pumpkin muffin and more water)
-lunch at 11:30am (solids and water)
-nap at 2:10pm, still going on.  my guess is that it'll be about an hour.

So as you can see, he's almost used up all of his 10.5 hrs of A time!  Obviously it will be impossible to get him down for bed just 2 hrs after waking from this nap at 3:00pm.  I'm thinking of aiming for the 6:30pm bedtime again, mainly because I just know him and he will not be able to fall asleep any earlier after having a nap this late in the afternoon.

I would have loved for the second nap to have started earlier, but I swear I was looking for tired signs and there just weren't any; he was happy and awake and having a great time until I finally decided at 1:45 to start a wind-down.  How is it possible for him to go for such a long stretch between naps?  He used to only be able to last about 3 hrs between naps, but those days are long gone.

Could it be that he only needs about 12 - 12.5 total hours of sleep in a 24 hr period?  I just can't seem to get any more than that.

Thanks again for all of the help,

Jennifer