Need some help with almost 10 mo

[hjrmom01]

and just as I said, no two days give me anything close to the same thing  After last night's super sleeping today's naps sucked!  Nap 1 10:15-11 (I had to wake) and then nap 2 2:15-3:23    He had a snack before hand so shouldn't have been hunger, he was acting WAY tired during WD so figured he was tired, wasn't acting OT during the A time (can't see how he would be after last night), he was actually quite pleasant!  I tried for 25 min to see if he'd go back to sleep but he wouldn't....still going to make him do 3.5 hrs to bed I think.  I am not going to put him down before 7.

[lilac83]

I think as long as that PM nap is over 1hr it's pretty safe to keep that final A time at 3.5hrs. Unless of course he starts acting obviously tired. Since he had a really good night he may have only needed 2hrs of sleep for today. It's all a balancing act at this point as he makes his way into the transition.

[hjrmom01]

thanks Robin    This is SO confusing!  Then of course last night he took a while to fall asleep, finally about 7:05 and then woke at 7:50 screaming/crying but settled by himself after about 5 min.  He woke this morning about 6, I think.  I woke up about 6:10 and he was rolling from side to side and trying to go back to sleep but didn't.  He was quiet and not fussing at all, would lay down then sit up, then lay down etc.  So here's where I get confused.  Had I not woken up at 6 I wouldn't have known he was awake because he's quiet.  I would have counted from 7 when we got up (if he was quiet until that time) and then done a 45 min nap from 10:15-11 as usual. But now I know he's been awake since 6 but he was quiet and content and trying his hardest to go back to sleep....so do I move his nap forward to 9:15? I thought that moving the nap earlier just encourages another EW because they rely on that first nap to be early....which way is the way to go?? 

Maybe he's OT from only getting 12.75 hrs of total sleep or maybe it's top teeth coming but he's pretty touchy since we've gotten up.  Cries at the slightest thing (putting on socks, being told "no" etc)*sigh* if it isn't one thing it's another! 

[lilac83]

If he slept from 7pm until 6am then technically he didn't have an EW, he just woke a bit earlier than normal. So I wouldn't worry too much about moving his first nap back a bit to make up for it. Perhaps you don't need to move it the entire hour back, but to around 9:45am or so, depending on what his mood is like.

My guess would be those teeth. Are they about to cut? That was always the worse time around here. Usually DD would wake early for 2 days and then she would have new teeth. Also perhaps letting him sleep a bit longer this morning but then keeping the A time before the second nap the same so he can catch up a bit.

I'm sure you've already decided what to do though by now anyway, so I hope it all worked out! It sounds like he may be in a bit of an OT cycle since he's only getting 12.75 per day. One thing you could try is pushing the second A time up a bit more. Even if he doesn't take a longer nap, he'll be able to have a bit shorter A time before bed which may in turn help him have a more restful night.

[hjrmom01]

I don't see any evidence of his top teeth, not like when I saw his bottom teeth before they cut.  I think it may be a matter of increasing the second A time.  DH actually put H down this am, and he put him down just a tad early (I think HE was wanting a nap more than H) so he was asleep about 10:10 and then we woke him at 11.  Stuck with the 2:15 pm nap but he woke, yet again, after 1 hr and 5 min.  I went in and patted his bum and although I don't think he went back to DEEP sleep I think he may have dozed until 3:55.  I'm still going to do 3.5 hrs from that point so 7:20ish bedtime. 

[lilac83]

I would try increasing that 2nd A time and see what happens. If he will start taking a 2hr nap in the PM again then you may even be able to decrease the AM nap to 30min.

LOL at your DH wanting a nap more than H!

[hjrmom01]

I didn't think he'd spiral into OT this fast, especially after having a 12 hr night just 2 nights ago.  But ever since the first 1 hr pm nap everything has gone out of control. He was pretty cranky last night until we did bath, then he was fine, so bedtime ended up being 7:15.  I have no idea what time he woke this morning since I decided not to turn on the video part and look when I woke (it just makes me so upset if he's awake and then I'm in a grumpy mood all day!).  He was definitely awake by 6:30, I know that for sure.  He never went back to bed, he stood in the corner of the crib and was crying by 6:50 and has not stopped since he woke up!!! 

To catch him up on sleep do I let him sleep longer in the am? Bring the am nap forward maybe to 9:45? I'm afraid if he's been awake since 6, I keep the nap at 10:15 and only let him sleep 45 min and then push that second nap out then he's REALLY going to be OT at bed and thus the cycle continues. 

[lilac83]

Yes, I would shorten up the first A time and let him sleep for an hour. Then keep the second A time around the 3.5hrs like normal. Getting OT seems to happen a lot during this transition. All you have to do though is backtrack a bit for a few days and then he should be able to push forward again.

[hjrmom01]

He ended up going to sleep about 9:50 and I woke him at 11. He did 3.5 hrs A time and went down at 2:30 and slept until 3:50 on his own.  Generally 1hr and 20 min naps are a little OT for us but it'll get us to bedtime!  How long do I keep the first nap earlier and letting him sleep a little longer???

Definitely think we are quickly spiraling out of control.  I knew I should have done an earlier bedtime tonight because H was SUPER whiny, clingy and crying all the time after dinner...even saw him yawning before 6:20.  But once I got him in the bathtub, once again, he perked up a bit.  Ended up shooting for 3 hr 15 min but boy he had another idea.  I put him down at 7:10 and he'll normally cry when I leave the room but then settle and go to sleep within 5 min.  Tonight he just screamed!  He stood up and was just screaming.  I went back in after a few, laid him down and gave him lovey and walked out and he stood right back up screaming.  Gave him a minute to calm down but he didn't so I gave him some Tylenol and held him for a second and then put him down and as soon as we moved to the crib he started screaming.  I stayed there with him until he was calm and then walked out and he started to scream again.  Would sit up, roll over, flail everywhere and just scream.  Kinda sounded how things went before he got his bottom teeth (but that was all happening during the night  )  Still don't see top teeth, at least it doesn't look how his bottom gums did before they came up.  Anyway, I had to stay with him until he went to sleep and that was about 7:35    Sure we'll end up with an EW again tomorrow. 

Should I keep up with shorter A times and hope for longer naps to help him catch up?  Do I let him sleep as long as he wants for the morning, not wake him at 11?  I'm so confused...did I mention that I hate teething?!  (if that's even what this is!!!)

[lilac83]

Teething is so hard and at this age it seems to be the catch all for any sleep problems. Baby having trouble falling asleep? Must be teething. Waking at night? Teething. On and on, so it's so hard to know for sure. The fact of the matter is though that he'll be teething for the next 2yrs or so, fun fun!!

Before you started cutting the AM nap short, how many hours of day sleep was he getting? It sounds like he's losing too many hours with the short AM nap and then not taking a very long PM nap. Has he usually preferred his AM nap over his PM nap? You could always give a longer AM nap a try and see what happens. Just wake him from the PM nap then to preserve bedtime. Even just doing this for a few days to make sure he's caught up and out of OT. Then you could always go back to cutting the AM nap and playing around with that second A time. 

[hjrmom01]

He does prefer his Am nap but we did the long am nap and short pm nap for a while and it wasn't working very well.  He's only been losing sleep since he had that good night and then the 1 hr nap.  Yesterday he had 2.5 hrs day sleep and I'm guessing 10.5/at most 11 night sleep last night.  When I woke at 6:30 this am he was either just waking or had been awake and was laying there...but he was standing up crying by 6:45...that usually points to about a 6am wakeup because he'll be quiet for quite a while. 

When we were doing the long am, short pm he was only getting about 10-11 hrs night sleep, 2-2.5 hrs in the day and we were getting lots of waking at night and in the early morning. Sometimes he'd go back to sleep, sometimes not.  It's just SO confusing! 

I think I'll just kinda wing it for a while to get him caught up on sleep then go back to the long am/short pm nap.  *sigh* it would have to be so difficult wouldn't it?!

[huntersmummyinoz]

hi hun,
last time you tried the short am and long pm nap he got really OT quite quickly too and never did really extend that pm nap even after quite a few weeks of trying. i'd definitely go the long am/pm catnap for at least a couple of days and catch him up.

i'm wondering if because he is a touchy bub, that if you want to do the short am/long pm nap routine, then maybe you need to switch to it more slowly as these LOs do not like routine changes. eg. if he is taking a 1.5 hr am nap/ 1hr pm nap, then for 3 to 5 days cut 15mins off the am nap and attempt to add it to the pm nap (ie. am nap becomes 1hr15, offer pm nap 15mins earlier and let him sleep 1hr 15). after a few days of that (give him a week even to settle into it if he needs it), then cut another 15 mins off am nap, offer pm nap 15mins earlier, etc. does that makes sense?? never done it before but i'm wondering if a different strategy is needed to switch him to the short am/long pm nap routine since he is so sensitive to OT

kirry

[hjrmom01]

Just thought I'd let you know today, I put him down for his morning nap and he slept from 9:45 until I woke him at 11:15...and then he slept from 2:45 until I woke him at 4:05 to keep bedtime.  Must have needed to catch up on sleep!  Do you think maybe doing a 10:30-11:30 am nap and then working down towards 45 min from there would be better than just cutting to 45 min?  

Kirry, you posted right as i was going to...totally read my mind!!!  I was thinking instead of jumping to 45 min that I need to slowly reduce the time!  How do I go about cutting the time then? 

[huntersmummyinoz]

now i know you are going to laugh at this but TRY to see if you can repeat that for another day. then start cutting.

if he is doing 1.5 am nap/ 1hr 20 at pm nap. then i would cut the first nap to 1hr15 first, (30min cut may just make him OT again), start pm nap 15 mins earlier and prob wake around 4ish to keep bedtime. then cut to 1hr, move pm nap forward another 15 mins (cross fingers and toes that he sleeps longer in the pm ) and again wake by 4pm if he doesnt do it on his own. cut to 45 mins if needed, may eventually need cutting to 30min nap in the pm BUT i would be waiting to see if he extends his pm nap before cutting to this.

[hjrmom01]

Kirry, thanks so much for explaining that.  If he wakes up closer to 7 should I use A time instead of keeping the nap at 9:45?  I think he was awake around 6 this am so that's why I did 9:45 and let him sleep.  When we were doing 45 min naps and he slept until 7 we did 10:15 and woke him at 11. I'm just not sure what to do when/IF he wakes closer to 7.  We'll be running out of time in the day.  I'll definitely try for todays routine again tomorrow but I'm sure we'll get something TOTALLY different