10 month old sleep question - naps adjustments? (Now 11 mo w more questions!)

[Baileysmom31112]

Hey there,

So I think we've entered the 10 month sleep gone wonky phase maybe and was hoping to get some advice. My LO has always had shorter naps as he is in daycare all week and very active. As a result, we've had an early bedtime of 6-6:30 which has worked really well. He typically has 1 NF and then wakes around 7 for the day. In the last week, his naps have gotten longer (as in 1-2 hrs each) and he has dropped his 1 NF. His BT has shifted to about 6:45 but he is now waking up between 5-6am. I can't tell if this is because his BT is too early or if his naps are too long. When I've tried to put him down later (like 7) he has cried earlier in the night as if he is OT so I'm trying to figure out if I should cap his naps and/or if I should push his BT back and stick with it for a few days.

The day it started:

5am NF
7:30am WU
7:45am nurse
9:30 breakfast

10:35-12:35 asleep
12:45 bottle
1:15 lunch

3-3:50pm asleep
4pm bottle
5:30pm dinner
6:40pm nurse

7pm asleep

10pm crying hard - need to be resettled

DAY 2
5am crying, but resettled on and off until...
5:50am wake up/nursed
7:30am nursed
8:30-8:45 fell asleep in car

10:30-11:45 asleep

1:30 lunch/bottle

3pm-4:20 asleep

5:45pm dinner
6:25pm nursed

6:45pm asleep

5:30am NF?
6:20 wake up (but was probably awake on and off between 5:30 and 6:20)
7:30am breakfast
9:40am nurse

9:50-10:55 asleep
12:30 lunch
2pm nursed

2:15-3:05pm asleep
4:45pm dinner
6:30pm nurse
6:45pm asleep

So, as you can see, his naps moving around quite a bit - and if he goes to bed at 6:45pm and sleeps straight through the night - waking before 6am seems like it would be expected. What we really want is for him to wake at 7am. So, I guess the question is - what times should his naps be at? Is 3-4:30pm too late for example? and then how long should his A time before bed be?? And should we cap the morning nap or should we work more on pushing his bedtime back? I'm confused! TIA 

[Baileysmom31112]

An update:

Yesterday, we tried to give him a shorter morning nap and a longer afternoon nap. He just ended up with shorter naps and then asleep for the night by 6:45pm. He started crying at 5:20am and I nursed him and then he was quiet until 6am when he started crying hysterically so we got him up. I meant to add that this new schedule is throwing off his mornings and is why he is falling asleep in the car on the way to daycare.

"Normally", he is up around 7am and gets to daycare by 8:30 so he doesn't fall asleep in the car, but now he's been up since anywhere between 5-6am and so it's very hard for him to stay awake on the drive in.... is that catnap adding to the screwed up day?? He was doing so well for a month or so... his schedule was basically wake up at 7am, morning nap around 10-10:30am (anywhere from 45m-1.5h) and afternoon nap around 2-2:30pm (anywhere from 45m-1.5h), bedtime at 6-6:30pm.

It seems like things got messed up after his naps shifted later and remained long, but now his naps are shorter and he fights them and they are less consistent (so OT?) and he's waking up so early - though probably technically not an EW since he is going to bed at 6:45pm (I mean 6:45 - 5:20/6 is 10.5-11 hrs. of sleep)?

[Ima shel Alon]

his schedule was basically wake up at 7am, morning nap around 10-10:30am (anywhere from 45m-1.5h) and afternoon nap around 2-2:30pm (anywhere from 45m-1.5h), bedtime at 6-6:30pm.

Am I right that his A time was longer back then? It seem like he was doing 3-3.5h A time and now is doing 2-2.h A, which will be too little for him. Could you go back to the higher A and see if that makes a difference with the EW?
If you look here at number 8: Early Morning Wakings you'll see that a too early nap can cause EW the next day.
And I think this is worth a reading as well: from 2 to 1 nap - how, when and the bumps
and 10/11 month old sleep gone wonky? Read this first!
Good luck!

[Baileysmom31112]

Thanks Ima for the post and the links. So the cat nap in the car could have triggered the EWs - that makes sense!

I think where we went wrong is that he usually has a times of 3-3.5 hours during the day but he always goes to bed between 6-6:30 or he acts OT w periodic crying NFs thru the night. Even if his nap ends around 4pm, he seems like he needs to go to bed between 6-6:30pm even though that is only a 2-2.5 a time. Is that ok or should I be trying to stretch out the last a time more?

Last week, when he had really long daytime naps, I tried to put him down later at 7pm which would have been a 3 hr a time from last nap to bed but that seemed to throw him into an OT/UT loop that I think we're finally coming out of.

Yesterday, he had proper a times between wake up and his two naps which resulted in two 1 hr long naps - however, the second nap ended at 2:30 (kind of early in the day!) He was asleep for the night by 6pm and didn't wake until 5:45am - he nursed and went back to sleep until 6:25am. The weird bit is that he can make it from 2:30 to 6pm but can't seem to make it from 4pm to 7pm??

If his naps start shifting later in the day again as his a time increases, should his BT shift later too or should I keep it early between 6-6:30?? I mean does this look like reasonable schedule to aim fo:

WU: 7am
Morning nap: 10:30am - 11:30am
Afternoon nap: 2:30/3pm - 4pm
BT: 6:30pm

[Ima shel Alon]

The weird bit is that he can make it from 2:30 to 6pm but can't seem to make it from 4pm to 7pm??

I think he was just extremely OT and crashed.
I would however give pushing BT a try. Not by much, sometimes even 15min can do the trick.
The routine you posted looks good, but IIWY I would try and push BT to 19.

[Baileysmom31112]

Ugh, of course he now has a stomach bug, so all bets are off for the next couple of days. The poor boy. Once we're back on track, I'll focus on keeping that schedule and slowly pushing BT to 19. thanks for all your help!

[Ima shel Alon]

No problem, hope he feels better soon.

[Baileysmom31112]

Hiya,

Just wanted to post an update that we are back on track here. The key seems to be making sure LO gets at least 3-3.5 hrs of awake time from when he first wakes up until his first nap. I still haven't much luck pushing his BT later. He really seems to prefer between 6-6:30pm no matter when his afternoon nap falls....but he is sleeping through the night mostly and getting up for the day around 6 -7am, so overall, I can't complain! Have I mentioned lately that I love these forums!

[Ima shel Alon]

That's a very good update! So happy for you .

[Baileysmom31112]

I'm back! :-( LO is now just over 11 months old and he is clearly having 2-1 transition issues. He is totally fighting his afternoon nap BUT he is also not taking a very long morning nap. We've been aiming for:

6/7am wake up
10/10:30 morning nap (usually an hour, he wakes up on his own)
2:30 afternoon nap
6/6:30 BT

I would love to push that BT out later but his morning nap seems to be getting shorter and so I think he is getting OT by the end of the day. He falls asleep as soon as we lay him down for his morning nap but then wakes (half the time crying) about 50 min to 1 hr 15 min later and won't go back to sleep. He then seems to suddenly get very tired around 2pm (which is about 2.5-3 hours after he wakes from his morning nap) but then when we go to put him down he either 1) drifts off but wakes up 5 minutes later crying uncontrollably, or 2) he seems to get a second wind and just crawls around playing.

The last two days, it's taken me anywhere from 45 min to 1 hr 30min to get him to go to sleep in the afternoon. If I leave him alone and he's playing, he's perfectly content but then gets OT (never takes the nap) and is miserable the rest of the day. If I try hard to get him to sleep (nursing, rocking all the things you shouldn't do), he drifts off and then cries hysterically, over and over. Either way, he is rubbing his eyes and then fussy the rest of the day. AND, of course now it's effecting his nights with more NW (always crying hysterically). If I nurse him, he falls back asleep but this repeats multiple times through the night.

So, do you think I should push the morning nap out even further or try to bring it earlier to help with the afternoon nap? Or should I push the afternoon nap out later?? The one day he completely skipped his afternoon nap, he was a wreak. So I need to figure out how to preserve the 2 naps asap for all our sanity!

[Ima shel Alon]

Which nap do you want to be your longer nap? If you want the AM nap to be longer then I think you need to push the morning A a bit later, because he is giving you an UT nap in the AM. That will also push your nap to the later afternoon, because right now it's way too early and he is UT for this one too and then gets OT because he can't fall asleep. Hopefully all that will also push your BT a tiny bit later. HTH.

[Baileysmom31112]

Hmm, what time do you think the afternoon nap should be at? I usually pick him up from daycare around 4pm so I need to make that afternoon nap either end before I get him or start after we get home (which would make it at like 5pm which seems to late) - so if I know he needs to be awake by 4pm, do you think it makes more sense to try for a longer pm nap or am nap?


So I'm thinking either scenario #1: going for the long am nap:

6:30 wake up
11am nap
3pm nap
7pm bt

Scenario #2: Go for the long pm nap -- do I leave the am nap where it is but cap it at like 45 min so that he can go down for a long pm nap at say 2:30?
6:30 wake up
9:30 nap (cap at 45 min)
2:30 nap
7pm bt

Oh, and you say that currently his afternoon nap is way too early, but why does he seem so tired at first? He rubs his eyes and gets all cranky... Should I just let him keep playing instead of trying for a nap and then go by the clock instead? Thanks so much for your help, it seems like there are a few of us at the same milestone right now!

[Ima shel Alon]

At this age sleepy cues are hard to read, that's at least what I experienced, and you might need to "ignore" them. I found looking at the clock helped me get better naps.
My DS used to yawn and rub his eyes from the moment he woke up from a nap, even if it was a 2h one! But if I put him down when I THOUGHT he was tired enough I would always get an UT nap.
Both the scenarios look really good to me. Of course it's not written in stone and once you implement either of them you might need to shift things a bit forward or backwards.
It's very much up to you which scenario you pick. Does he sleep better in daycare or at home? Is he home in the morning or both naps are in daycare? Just look at the big picture and try to decide which nap is more solid and reliable.
I wouldn't let him nap at 17, I think it's too late, but 15:15-16 nap should work.

[Baileysmom31112]

I'm exhausted today! LO slept really badly last night and I'm not sure why. Here is what happened over the last two days:

Saturday:
4:20am: hysterical crying NW ( I nursed him)
5:30am: hysterical crying NW (and wanted to nurse again)

7am wake up

11:05-12:05 nap

3:40-4:10pm nap

7 asleep for the night

Sunday:

4am NW/NF

7am wake up

10:25-11:25 nap

3:15-4:10pm nap

7:20pm asleep for the night

A whole mess of a night: Cried hysterically at 11pm and again at midnight (and needed help to resettle), 1am cried but resettled, 5am cried and I nursed him but he fell back asleep briefly but then cried hysterically on and  off from 5am - 6am. I finally got up with him at 6am for the day.

He was really sick earlier this week with lots of night wakings, but the last 4 days he's been on antibiotics and is supposed to be doing better. This mama is tired!!

[Ima shel Alon]

It doesn't sound routine related, it sounds like discomfort to me. It can still be the illness and at this age it can also be that teeth are moving or popping and it disrupts sleep big time.