Night feeds getting earlier and earlier....

[becj86]

I think he may be overstimulated. 45min naps were a major sign of OS with DS - he'd get up happy as Larry and raring to go but would be more clumsy than he would be after a good rest.

What do you think?

[Rizo]

Yeah he could be, he does have a very active big brother. I do try to keep his awake time low key, playing on his mat with his toys, talking to him, walking around the house etc. Is this too much??? He also likes a short wind down, 2mins in his bedroom singing a song, into sleep bag then into bed so maybe this doesn't wind him down enough?

So tricky to know though if he is OS as I have nothing else to go by, no matter how long he is awake, if his brother is home or not, if we are out etc we always get 45min, occasional 30min but not very often. He has been like that since very early on. Previous to this he would sleep a couple of 20min naps in the morn and then would do a long 3 hour nap in the late afternoon

Wow, you are super quick at replying! Thankyou so much for all your help already!

[becj86]

What about understimulated? That can cause similar issues but with a spirited, I never had that issue... If you're working hard not to stimulate him too much...

Does he get much time outside? Fresh air can be good for bubs... and adults Maybe a trip to the park for toddler to run around and baby can lie on the grass and nap in the pram on the way home? I always had to transfer DS within 10mins of falling asleep if it was going to work (pram to bed).

Is he easier to resettle from a 30min nap than a 45min nap? DS always was so I just pushed the A time, resettled the OT waking and he got used to it in a few days and would sleep a good nap. Would you be prepared to try that?

[Rizo]

Yes, he is much easier to settle from a 30min nap but even that is pretty hard. Once he is awake he is awake! I am successful at re-settling maybe 1 nap per week, not great.

Yeah we do get out and about during the week but he never seems to sleep any better unless he has just fallen asleep in the car and we get home within 10mins of him falling asleep, then he could do 3 hours!!!

This boy is seriously always 3 steps ahead of me. I feel like I've tried everything but he is always changing the rules.

When you say extend his A further, how much would you go to? 2h 20min? 2h 30? He never seems to get in the grumpy overtired stage after a nap. No matter how long he has been awake before a sleep he always wakes the same and plays the same afterwards.

[becj86]

he has just fallen asleep in the car and we get home within 10mins of him falling asleep, then he could do 3 hours!!!

This is my boy but that 10mins thing is sooo crucial!

Yes, he is much easier to settle from a 30min nap but even that is pretty hard.

Ok, so this is the only time I will ever suggest that you go running in the minute you hear a sound. As a rule, you always give LO a chance to settle themselves but when pushing A time and knowing you'll be resettling OT wakings, run in the minute you hear a noise, settle (hand on LO or gentle shush or whatever works) so they don't fully wake. Only do it for a few days and then let them attempt settling on their own...

he always wakes the same and plays the same afterwards.

This suggests that something's always at play to me - probably OS :-/ Maybe he just is a short napper but it is rare and I think it unlikely given he can nap for a long time in certain circumstances. What have you tried in terms of wind down? I just wonder if its something different (have 3 or 4 of them and switch them up) like 10 mins walking in the garden when he's not too active and just listening to your voice and having a cuddle would help. What about white noise - might help him transition?

When you say extend his A further, how much would you go to?

I went up by about 15-20mins from the previous A time at this age.

[Rizo]

Wow, great ideas.


Yes I definitely think there is something always at play as he seems like he wants to go longer but just struggles!!! I normally let hime try to resettle for 10mins or so when he wakes but today I went straight to him and I managed to get him back to sleep for another 40mins!!! AMAZING!!! The ironic thing is that I just thought heck it can't hurt to try and then came on and saw that this was your suggestion too. Funny how things work.

Anyway, will try this again when I can over the next few days. DS1 is at preschool tomorrow but the rest of the week I have them both at home and my DH is taking his class on School Camp so is away all week. Hopefully I will be able to resettle at least once each day. Fingers crossed....

Trying a different wind down is a good idea too, he doesn't seem to like sitting on my knee to wind down as he thinks it is time to chat so may try the walk round the house for a few minutes thing and see what happens. I think I'll use this as a way of extending his A time by 10 or 15mins. He already has white noise so will keep this going and maybe turn it up.

Hopefully this will all help, I just wish he knew the plan!!!!!  Haha!

[becj86]

Good luck, you're armed with a plan Keep us posted with your progress.

[Rizo]

Ok, so we had quite a good night..... I further reduced his NF to 120ml (started at 200ml a few days ago). When he woke at 6am he wasn't hungry til 6.45 so I am going to further reduce tonight as this tells me he doesn't really need it? Do you think this is fair?

First nap today was a bit muddled as we had preschool drop off so he had 20mins on the way there and then was awake for 30mins while we dropped DS1 off and then fell back to sleep in the car on the way home and slept til 10.40.

Tried pushing out the A time following this good sleep. Pushed him to 2hours 15min. Did a longer wind down, walked around house, cuddle, undress, close curtains sleep bag and then song. He went down really quickly (2mins). Unfortunately he woke at 30min. I went in as soon as I heard him on the monitor and tried for 25mins to pat him back to sleep but he would nearly be asleep then grab my hand (like he was trying to stop me patting!) and then wave his arms around to wake himself up again.

Forgot to mention before now that we had weaned the paci for sleep about 1 week prior to this but with the earlier NW we gave it back as he would not settle any other way than paci or bottle. He is now having it for sleep but I always take it out once he is asleep.

Without the paci I would have NO chance to resettle any nap at all. I just don't know what to do, I am at the point of feeling like I am going out of my mind with these short naps!!!!! When he was STTN I figured, hey at least I have a break at night but these 45min are killing me. I just can not believe that people have babies that actually sleep well during the day, i just can not even fathom it!!!!

So tricky as when I extending the A time this morn I did some fun activities with him first half (reading books, playing and showing him toys, singing etc) and then kept the last 45mins really low key (quiet music, cuddles and walking round the house slowly)

Arrrrhhhhh I am lost

[Rizo]

One more question. If I reduced the NF again tonight and he doesn't make it til wake up time should I just replug the paci as many times as it takes to get through til morning. I just don't think he needs this feed at all. He is FF and is now taking good bottles throughout the day.

[becj86]

I am going to further reduce tonight as this tells me he doesn't really need it? Do you think this is fair?

I think that's probably ok, I wouldn't reduce it by much - maybe just an ounce or so.

He went down really quickly (2mins). Unfortunately he woke at 30min. I went in as soon as I heard him on the monitor and tried for 25mins to pat him back to sleep but he would nearly be asleep then grab my hand (like he was trying to stop me patting!) and then wave his arms around to wake himself up again.

DS did this - he was OT but wanted to interact. I just closed my eyes and kept patting - no interaction at all.

If I reduced the NF again tonight and he doesn't make it til wake up time should I just replug the paci as many times as it takes to get through til morning. I just don't think he needs this feed at all. He is FF and is now taking good bottles throughout the day.

I'd probably feed him when he wakes (its not going to be *that* much earlier, I shouldn't think) and start the day then. He's not going to get any more rest from replugging and resettling til wakeup. I don't think one early wakeup is going to change much for him.

[Rizo]

Ok so we just had THE WORST night we have ever had with him and NW. Even the first week home with him was better than this. Last night went something like this:

3pm Bottle
3.30-4.10 Nap
Bottle at 5.30 (He was showing hungry signs and I thought he would prob have a small cluster feed but took a whole 180ml)
Top up feed at 6.15 (Ended up taking another 140ml!
EArly bedtime 6.30
Woke 1 hour late at 7.30 (Fed rest of bottle 60ml) Hungry boy!!!!!
NW 11.50 replug paci about 6 times til 1am (tried to fed him but kept spitting out bottle)
1am Feed (Took it but not starving IYKWIM)
NW 3am, paci rep lugs every mins til 4.30 when I gave up and swaddled his hands put him in our bed and held his paci in.
Slept well until 6.30am when he took a 200ml bottle

I think the first night waking is OT as he had short naps all afternoon and then we had to do a EBT but seriously all the other paci plugs and waking couldn't be could they?

I am going to go with his cues and not try to extend A time today as I think he will be tired from all those wake ups (I know I am)

SO I am wondering, should I reswaddle him tonight (hasn't been swaddled in over a month? Or is the paci a prop (weird if it was as this is only the second night he has ever woken this often for it and he just pulled it out every time) Or should I start a DF in the hope it will work this time. I fed him a small 120ml at 1am and he lasted well til 6.30 so maybe a fuller feed around 10pm would get through til morning

[Rizo]

Think I am going to try the dream feed tonight and am still thinking about the swaddle. He is trying sooo hard to roll over the past few days so I don't want to start re-swaddling if he is going to roll over soon.

I am also going to cut paci use to only if he can't settle himself for naps and in the middle of the night if he isn't settling. Is this confusing for him though? Do I have to go cold turkey. I'm not worried about the naps but only wanting to use it for night settling to check if he is hungry.

At this stage I am not stressing about naps if we could just get this night business under control.

[becj86]

I think the first night waking is OT as he had short naps all afternoon and then we had to do a EBT but seriously all the other paci plugs and waking couldn't be could they?

If they go to bed OT, it can wreck the whole night, unfortunately.

Is he teething? DS used to want a dummy all the time when teething but until he figured out to chew on it, it didn't give him the relief he was looking for so he just would take it back out.

I am also going to cut paci use to only if he can't settle himself for naps and in the middle of the night if he isn't settling. Is this confusing for him though? Do I have to go cold turkey. I'm not worried about the naps but only wanting to use it for night settling to check if he is hungry.

It might be ok, but it could be an issue if its a prop.

At this stage I am not stressing about naps if we could just get this night business under control.

Days affect nights so much. I've always found getting the days right was the ticket to good nights. Maybe a dummy wean is necessary... Is he waking and crying an I need you cry or are you trying to settle him just because he's awake/when he's mantra crying?

[Rizo]

Another bad night - so many NW I can't remember how many....

First wake at 10.55pm which is sooooo not like him. Multiple wakes til 1am when I feed him.
Waking again at 3ish, wake at 4.45 (but settled himself) up for the day at 5.45am laughing to himself after I got him up.


Is he teething? DS used to want a dummy all the time when teething but until he figured out to chew on it, it didn't give him the relief he was looking for so he just would take it back out.
I think he was a week or so ago but yesterday night I tried teething gel and he still woke 2 hours later. Might try pamol tonight to rule it out for sure

In regards to the dummy, he went to sleep for 2 naps without it yesterday as well as bedtime and I will try the same today, only giving it if he is really upset while trying to settle to sleep.

Ofcourse he waited until this week when DH is away I'm sure he knows.....Haha!

Do you think I should still stick to the 2hour A times for now or drop back to 1h 45 or try to increase? Naps have always been terrible with him but his day feeds are predictable, for now those naps just don't seem to extend at all

Is he waking and crying an I need you cry or are you trying to settle him just because he's awake/when he's mantra crying?

When he wakes he is crying but not full on crying, it is kind of a mix between mantra and I need you, I have been waiting a few minutes to see if he will settle but maybe I need to wait longer. Tonight I will try to time 10 min from when I hear him I think.

[Rizo]

Oh and when I got him up at 5.45 he was happy to play with his toys before I fed him at 6.30 so the waking is not a hungry thing I'm sure.

What do you think about starting a dream feed to get rid of the NF altogether? Hopefully.....