I've got nothing left! EW

[malibu_nikkus]

Hi
Somehow our 9mth old has managed to move his habitual feed from 3am to 5am. The problem is, he is actually hungry by 5am, so what do I do.  Sometimes after the feed he will go back to sleep till 7, other times he won't resettle. How should I be handling this.

Also, for some reason he has starte to have trouble going to sleep at night. He cries and cries, more mantra cry mostly but for a good 45min and he still isn't dropping off. I'm insure how to handle this situation. I've tried sh and pat, but he wiggles too much.  He goes quiet at first and then gets all worked up and wiggles so much the exercise is pointless.  DH came in and picked him up and When I left the room he lost it. Are we dealing with separation anxiety or is he expecting a feed to sleep? Help please

[malibu_nikkus]

Our EASY is
7am bf
7.30 solids
9.30 sleep
11.30 wake and bf
1230 lunch
200 sleep
3.30/4 wake and bf
500 dinner
6.30 feed
7pm bed

For the last 2 nights he has cried and cried mantra till about 745. Going in just makes him more worked up, but I ended up having to feed. He then went back to bed awake and went to sleep. He then woke 2 hourly last night. Ah, what is going on?

[katie80]

Hi there, it looks to me like he's UT.  He's got quite a bit of day time sleep on not very long A times.  I'd work on getting them up to 3 hr, by adding on 15 min every few days. Start with just the first A time in the morning and once that's set, work on the next one.  It's ok to stretch out to a 13 hr day at this point if you want to keep the nap lengths at 1.5-2 hr, or if you want a shorter day, you'll have to start capping a nap.  But, work on the A time stretch first.  Also, I don't think at this age it's unreasonable to do that early morning feed, but he's not always going back to sleep because he isn't tired enough.  Getting more A time should help that.

[malibu_nikkus]

Thanks heaps, it has made a big difference. The only problem now is his habitual feed as moved from 3 to 4am. Grr, can't win. He takes a massive feed at this feed too.

[katie80]

Glad things are improving.  Sounds like he still needs the feed at that time.  I don't think it's so much of a problem, though.

[malibu_nikkus]

Even if he is waking at the same time each night? He certainly tries to ut himself back to sleep for ages but just doesn't seem to e able to do it.  Eventually he gets cross and I go in and feed him. If I try and shorter this feed he gets cross and does not resettle until I go back and give him the other side. Cheeky monkey. Maybe he needs this feed because his brothers distract his feeds during the day..

[katie80]

It's hard to tell.  Distraction is probably definitely a factor, and if he takes a full feed, it does seem like genuine hunger.  What are his morning feeds like?  I'd give the new routine with stretched out A times a week or two to get settled and then if he's still waking habitually, we can take a look at it.  At just over 9 mo, though, I don't know that I would expect him to go the full 12 hr quite yet.

[malibu_nikkus]

Is that because he is fully bf?

[becj86]

My 13 month old still has a little NF at 5 if he's gone to bed at 6 - more than 11hr without any food/drink intake I think is a long time - I don't do it He still takes a massive wakeup feed at 7 though

I agree with Katie that you should give the routine with longer A times a bit of time to bed down. As the day lengthens out, you may end up losing that NF (we didn't have a NF when our nights were 11hr but they've crept back with longer nights due to 2-1).

[malibu_nikkus]

Thank you. Last night I feel asleep early and didn't do the dream feed. He slept from 6pm till 3.45am without a feed. He then ate heaps. When he woke at 7 though, he barely ate. Is this causing us problems with easy. Is it encouraging him to wake for a night feed? Even after a df, he still wakes between 3-5am for a feed and goes back to sleep.  If he waked nearer to 5, he is usually up for the day. With or without df he wakes around th same time, between 3-5. Would you just drop the DF then or Wil that cause more NW? I need more sleep. I can continue to stay up till 11 if he is then up at 5 for the day some days. I'm exhausted!

[becj86]

I would just drop the DF. It's not shifting his long stretch without eating so he sleeps til morning or buying you any extra or less disturbed sleep. I'd go to bed early and sleep. DS never had a dream feed and dropped them quite happily all by himself (with me sneakily adding extra calories into the day in the form of milk with solids instead of water with solids). You may find if he's not that hungry for milk when he wakes for the day, you could do solid breakfast first and milk feed an hour or so after that, or just wait a while before you do his morning feed so he's a bit more hungry.

[katie80]

I'd drop the DF too and just go to bed earlier. Another thing you can try with the NF is to just offer one breast and then gradually reduce the time he's on.

[malibu_nikkus]

Do you sit there and time the feeds in order to lessen the feed?

[katie80]

I've never actually done it that way, tbh, I just know it's another option. Both of mine pushed feeds out or dropped them after I offered just one side for awhile. I then did the milk in the sippy cup like Bec did and just dropped the last night feed (but ours was a dream feed). I doubt I would time it in minutes, although I am a bit of a control freak. I'd just use the feel of the nursing session. There are different points, you know, from faster more vigorous sucking at the beginning to the more even draws of milk in the middle to then the slower, winding down phase. I'd probably start by cutting out the last phase and then cutting back to somewhere in the middle. I don't know that it would be beneficial to cut him off right after let down as that would probably be more disruptive.