Is this night time separation anxiety??

[MrsTigs]

Hi everyone,

After finally getting our 14 month old settled on a one nap schedule, we’ve now gone off track again! For the last month he’s been variously waking around 10-11pm (3-4 hours after going to bed), waking again around 2am and then wanting to get up for the day at 5am. Not surprisingly we are all knackered!

He started nursery at the beginning of October, so I’m wondering whether the problem is night time separation anxiety? When we does wake, he cries out quite urgently, but goes off again pretty quickly when we go to him (although I have also ended up in the spare bed with him a couple of times). We give him the chance to settle himself for a couple of minutes when he wakes (which he does do sometimes), but we never leave him to cry.

He has settled really well at nursery and is eating and napping well there. We have a few tears at pick up and drop off, but they are subsiding and he engages happily with the staff when I pick him up. At first, he was very clingy to me during our time at home, but now he’s happy to be left with Daddy and doesn’t have a meltdown when I nip out of site to the loo or whatever! There were a couple of occasions when he didn’t want Daddy to put him to bed or settle him in the night, but he seems to have got over that now too.

We did have some illness in the mix in mid-October, and of course the clocks changing too, so probably multiple factors at play. I did wonder if teeth pain was also troubling him, as his nights are so variable – mostly waking lots, but the odd night of sleeping better (we had a very, very rare 12 hour night on Saturday!)

Before things got messed up, his routing looked like this:

6.30am: Wake and bottle
8am: Breakfast
11.30am: Big snack/lunch
12.15ish: Nap (lasting around 1 – 1.5hours)
2pm: Snack/more lunch
4.30pm: Dinner
6.15pm: Winding down for bed
6.45ish: Bottle
7ish: Sleep

The above routine mirrors what happens at nursery, so he’s pretty much on the same pattern across the whole week. He goes to Nanny’s on Tuesdays and is fine being left there.

Any thoughts welcome! Is this something we just need to ride out? I’m struggling with being back at work and getting no sleep!

Thanks,
Claire

[Truly Blessed]

Hi there, and welcome to BW 

Can you answer me some questions first of all please:

How long has he been on the 1 nap routine 

Would you consider him to low/average or high sleep needs from past experience 

My first thought is whether he needs more sleep than he is getting. Typically for his age it would be anything between 14 and 16 hours, and from his schedule it seems he is getting 12.5 to 13. This is why I ask how long he has been on the 1 nap routine, as if it's quite new it could be that OT has just set in.

You are of course right that teething can and does affect sleep. Can I ask if you are medicating before sleep at the moment    Something else you could do to try and rule out teething as the cause is to elevate his head slightly. I used to do this with DS by placing a pillow underneath his cot mattress. When LO's are teething the blood pools around the area causing extra pressure and pulsation, so the raised head can help this. Also extra saliva can cause coughing when dripping down the throat.

(HUGS) on the lack of sleep Hun, it's a killer  . I'll wait for you reply, then see if we can figure this out further.

Vicki.x.

[MrsTigs]

Hi Vicki,

Many thanks for your reply    To answer your questions:

He's only been on one nap for a couple of months (so only a month before we got off track). I did wonder whether we'd made the transition too soon, but we were having a horrendous time on two naps - refusing both naps and sometimes only taking 2x20 minutes! Or taking 30/40 minutes in the morning and then being up until bedtime.... Sleeping for 1.5 hours (as he was on one nap before it all went wonky) is a HUGE improvement for him.

I would definitely say he has low sleep needs! He started sleeping through the night (11+ hours) from 12 weeks, but has always been a serial cat napper in the day - I don't think we've ever got much more than 15 or 16 hours in total, even when he was tiny. In recent months, he's averaged and seemed fine on around 13 hours - he wakes up happy and is generally a pretty sociable and smiley boy.

We actually did raise the head of his cot recently (when he seemed to have a bit of a cough) and we do give him meds before bedtime too in case it's teeth moving around. Neither seem to have made much difference so far.....

I guess the activity and stimulation at nursery could be making him OT/OS?? Which would mean that his previous sleep amounts might not be cutting it..... But them I'm reluctant to mess about and go back to two naps - partly because I doubt that would work on his two nursery days. I could let him have some two nap days when we're at home I guess, to let him catch up, but that would create havoc with going out or getting anything done - he's variable enough as it is when it comes to nap time!

Be interested to hear your further thoughts.  My husband and I are wrecked from a month of poor sleep (on top of various colds etc) and I'm concerned that LO isn't getting enough sleep due to the NWs. How to rectify that and help him sleep longer is beyond me though!

xx

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Hun,

Thanks for answering my questions. From what you've said I agree that it is quite likely that nursery is causing OT/OS and it most certainly does add the OT kicking in. I would also be wary of changing back to 2 naps because it seemed to be working for him well before nursery started. So in light of the NW, having already raised his head and are medicating for teething, there are 2 options to consider.

To shorten his day, and see if that helps. In the past had he 'tacked on' sleep if you have gone for an early night 

Or to bring his nap forward, maybe trying for half an hour earlier, if this is possible for nursery to achieve with lunchtimes  I know there isn't always that flexibility in daycare. If it isn't possible then perhaps you could try for an earlier BT on nursery days, and an earlier nap when he is at home, or just shoot for EBT consistently, give it a few days and see if it helps 

Thoughts 

x.

[MrsTigs]

Hello again Vicki,

Many thanks for the suggestions  I'm certainly keen to preserve the one nap, as it was working well before this hiccup and I definitely don't want to go back to two micro naps with screaming before and after!

Re EBT, he has tacked on in the past, although it's not a given unfortunately..... Re an earlier nap, we could certainly try this on our home days, but I don't think it would work at nursery as they all sleep in the same room at the same time. And by all accounts he settles for naps by himself at nursery, which is a lot better than at home!

We've had a bit of a mixed week this week.... Tried EBT a couple of times due to circumstances (falling alseep on the journey home from nursery, and only having a 25 minute nap one day?!?!). The first time he took ages to settle, ended up going off at his usual time anyway, but then slept through until 6am  And the second time, he went down fine at 6.30, but woke several times between 11 and 12, before going back off til 6am.

We also did an earlier nap at home one day, which may have helped him catch up, but have had some shorter naps too?? Very variable.... But in general I think he is beginning to sleep better - he's now generally only waking at 11ish, instead of 9, 11, 2 etc, and he also seems to have adjusted his body clock re waking at 5am. It's been hovering about 6am this week and for the last couple of nights he's pretty much slept through til 6.30    So perhaps we are coming out the other side? I'm inclined to keep bedtime at 7pm (unless he's really struggling to stay awake) and just use our home days to let him nap a bit earlier/longer if he needs to catch up. He seems to prefer the routine of bedtime at the same time.

He's still a bit clingy to me during the day, but I'm trying to spend lots of quality time with him on our home days, as well as letting Daddy have lots of playtime at the weekend too. However, when he woke in the night on Wednesday, he only wanted me and kept pushing Daddy away, which my husband found really hard to deal with  He's never really been like that before..... But having said that, the next evening he played happily with Daddy while I got ready for my weekly yoga class and, after some initial protests, was happy for Daddy to put him to bed (a big improvement on the week before!)

Are there any other tips for helping to ease the separation anxiety phase? I guess it's hit us hard as, up until now, he's been such a sociable and adaptable boy.... He has a smile for anyone, warms up to new people really quickly and is generally happy to go off and explore new places by himself. He's settled so well at nursery, that the clinginess at home really surprised me - but I guess it's a phase he would have gone through anyway?

(I really don't need more guilt about putting him in nursery!! I always thought I'd be a SAHM, and technically we don't need me to go back to work..... But I was really starting to not recognise myself, and I think having three days at work has made me a much nicer Mummy all round!)

Thanks for your help and support 

[Truly Blessed]

I'm inclined to keep bedtime at 7pm (unless he's really struggling to stay awake) and just use our home days to let him nap a bit earlier/longer if he needs to catch up. He seems to prefer the routine of bedtime at the same time.

I think that's wise Hun, glad things are looking better.

he only wanted me and kept pushing Daddy away, which my husband found really hard to deal with   He's never really been like that before.....

We have this in our household and many more around the country And like your DS Daddy can suddenly become favourite.

Are there any other tips for helping to ease the separation anxiety phase?

I put our DS into nursery half a day a week when he was 2 just to try and build his autonomy as he was always with me. He has suffered awful SA and I have only just managed to help him now he's at school. (HUGS) I know it's hard to take, but it isn't unusual upon starting nursery and it could be short lived.

How about starting another thread on here  there is an awful lot of BTDT advise out there.

Discipline & Socialization Skills

x.

[MrsTigs]

Hi there,

So the strategy of keeping to usual bedtime seems to be working - he's slept through 11.5 hours+ for the last week without any NW (or very minimal/self settling) 

And his clinginess to me is also continuing to lessen, which has cheered up Daddy! I did explain that SA is a phase and that he will become the favourite over me at some point. But it must be hard to go through - especially when all he wanted to do was help out with the NW to give me a break! Thanks for the link to the other board - will pay a visit over there for some further tips 

So in general, things are settling down at home..... But nursery naps now seems to have gone wonky!! LO was sleeping pretty independently for at least an hour, but this week and last he's barely had half an hour and had been waking lots and crying out. Today he only had 10mins sleep in total  He needed one of the nursery workers to sit with him to get him to sleep and then woke as soon as they moved away - and wouldn't really settle properly after that. But he didn't seem sleepy this evening and I put him to bed at pretty much the usual time.

Any thoughts on this one? Or suggestions of where best to post?

xx

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Honey, some great updates there, so pleased. Daddy sounds lovely by the way

I must confess I'm not expert on nursery and naps Hun, as DS had stopped napping by the time he started. How about starting another thread on this board with an outline of the story so far, but focusing on the nursery short napping.

It's always good to have more eyes on a thread too.

x.

[MrsTigs]

Thanks Vicki  We're very glad that things seem to be settling down......  And yes, Daddy is amazing and I don't know what I'd do without him!

Will start another thread about the short nap problems. They don't seem to bother him in the slightest, but it would help my Mummy guilt to think he was back to getting proper naps at nursery! We have just tried introducing a lovey (again) so perhaps he might take to it this time and find it helpful at nursery. Fingers crossed.....

Thanks so much for all your help 

[Truly Blessed]

The main thing is his mood Honey, if he seems happy enough after the short naps, then he probably is getting enough sleep and catching up, which means he is 'self regulating' which is something that BW Mammies all over the world covet, so try not to worry Nursery is beyond your control, so wipe that worry from your mind, you can only deal with what happens at home and it seems to me you and DH are doing a wonderful job.

x.