Feed or not to feed at night wakings?

[lamx8810]

Hi all,

My LO will be 5 month old on Monday. I did the sleep training (TBW) when he was 3.5 month old. It went quite well for about a month. He would sleep from 730pm till 6am with a DF at 1130am.

Yet, starting about 2 weeks ago, he started to wake up at different times every night, anywhere b/w 3am to 5am. B/c of this, the schedule is totally off, depending when he wakes up. I am not sure if that was due to hunger and if i should feed. Sometimes he would cry for an hour. I have tried both shush-pat and PUPD but he just wouldn't settle. Sometimes when i picked him up, he would "eat" my face, so i ended up feeding him. After feeding him, i would put him back in his crib and he would fall asleep on his own without any problem. When i laid him down, he usually open his eyes, so i laid him down when he was half awake.

At first, I didn't think it's habitual cause every night he wakes up at different times. But this has been going on for more than 2 weeks and I am not sure if i should continue feeding him when he wakes up or not. Is this causing him to wake up? I am EBF and he always finishes both sides.

I have captured today's and yesterday's schedule. However, since he woke up at different times, there is simply no schedule.

Today's schedule:
Woke up at 520am
E @ 530am. Put him back in his crib and he fell asleep on his own
Woke up at 850am
E @ 910am.
S @ 11am
E @ 130pm
A till 330pm
S @ 330pm
Woke up at 430pm
E @ 610pm
S @ 7pm
Woke up at 830pm. Tried PUPD & Shush-pat. Back to sleep but then woke up again at 911pm. Tried PUPD & Shush-pat till 940pm when he attempted to "eat" my face when i was holding him upright.
E @ 945pm

Yesterday's schedule:
Up @ 3am
E @ 315pm
Up again @ 5:45am, back to sleep at 630am
Up @ 737am
E @ 740am
S @ 830am
Up @ 1045am
E @ 11am
S @ 1235pm
Up @ 115pm
E @ 3pm
S fr 330pm till 530pm (had to wake him up)
E @ 630pm
Night sleep was disturbed b/c we were out for dinner. Didn't sleep till 815pm and up again at 915pm.
DF @ 1050pm

Thanks a lot for your help!!

[Bex09]

Hi there and welcome to BW.

Looking at your routine I think that could well be what is contributing to your DS's NW. I think that your A times of around 2 hours is fine, but you could maybe do with trying to get everyday to be more simillar. Have you ever tried a set WU time that you start your day at? The first day you posted was quite short at only just over 10 hrs and I think that is why your DD was waking a lot. Why not have a look at these routines for some ideas of what you would like to work towards... http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164029.0

As for the feeding at the NW, it is very common for a 5 mo EBF baby to still have a DF and at least 1 NF so I wouldn't worry too much about that. What you could do is decide that you are not going to feed before say 3.5 hrs from the last feed if your DS wakes. So if you DF at 10.30 you wouldn't feed again before 2am and then only if he woke at 2am or after. HTHs.

[lamx8810]

Thanks for your response. I have glanced thru some EASY samples.

The WU time is different all the times b/c he gets up at random hours for feed at night. So, let's say if we want to set the WU time at 7am, my LO woke up at 5am and i feed him, do i still wake him up at 7am and then feed again? What if he wakes up at 6 or even later at 630am and it's so close to the WU time?

If that's the case, do u think i should drop to DF and just let him sleep and feed whenever he awakes?

Thanks again. This is such a great forum and I really appreciate your time to respond to my Q.

[Bex09]

No problem, I am happy to help.

So when I say a set WU time, obviously that is difficult if your LO wakes close to that time. So if your WU time was 7am and BT was 7pm and LO wakes at 6.30 you can either feed and start your day then or try to hold off feeding until nearer 7am. Which ever you feel fits in best with what your DS can handle really. If he wakes and is startving at 6am then obviously you will want to feed him then and adjust your day accordingly.

What I found really helped with us though was waking DD by that set time everyday. So even if she went back to sleep after a feed at 6.15am I would still wake her at 7am to start the day. This just meant that we had some structure and our days weren't all over the place. What you could do is try feeding when your LO WU and see if he will take any then. He might still take a small feed even if he fed an hour before or so, then you are back on track for your 10/10.30am feed too. Does that make sense?

If the DF has been working and DS takes it then I would not suggest dropping that yet no. Tracy suggests you wean this at around 7 mo and once solids are more established. So IIWY I would feed before BT (say at 7pm), then DF around 10.30/11.00pm. How long can he go between feeds in the night at the moment?

[lamx8810]

 i will try that starting tomorrow. We both slept till 840am this morning  cause he woke up at 410am, after some PUPD and shush-pat, he was still up.. so I fed him at 5am.

I usually feed him at 630/ 7pm and then DF him anywhere b/w 1030 to 1130pm. Sometimes, he would cry, so i decided to feed him a little bit earlier. however, if he stays asleep, then i will pick him up at 11pm (latest 1130pm) to feed him.

For a period of time, he was able to sleep from 1130pm till 6/ 630am, that's why i wasn't sure if i should still feed him if he woke up b4 that. However, he is on a 4 hour routine right now.

Let me try waking him up at 7am and see if that helps. Thanks,

[Bex09]

I totally know how hard it is to drag yourself out of bed when LO is having a lie in! I just found it gave us a set routine for the day in terms of feeds, etc.

If he is going 4 hrs between feeds in the day then he should be fine with that at night too, so I wouldn't feed until 4 hrs after the DF even if he wakes earlier and use PU/PD until then. So if you feed at 7pm before BT, DF at 11pm, NF (if he wakes) at 3am and then feed at 7am when you wake. If he wakes before these times and you are not ready to feed use PU/PD or shush/pat to resettle.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[lamx8810]

Just an update:

On the 26th, our day is like this:
W @ 3am; tried comforting him and he went back to sleep
W @ 3:22am; did the same thing and went back to sleep
W @ 333am again; thought he was hungry so feed him
W @ 6:54am, perfect to start our day
W @ 715am; Cereal @ 815am
Put him down in crib @ 845am and fell asleep right the way
W @ 1045am
E @ 1105am
Went out for a class and he wouldn't sleep at all in his car seat
E @ 230pm
S fr 310pm till 450pm
E @ 7am
W@ 1020pm; patted him back to sleep and DF @ 11am

However, on the 27th, things started to get ecstatic:
W @ 507am and feed him
Woke him up @ 715am; tried to feed but he didn't take much; Cereal @ 814a
S fr 915am
Woke up at 1015am; was crying very loudly and wouldn't fall back to sleep
E @ 11am
S fr 1210am to 1pm; wouldn't sleep again after that
E @ 3pm
S fr 330pm till 530pm
E @ 630pm
S fr 725pm; cried after sleeping for 20 mins and cried again at 951pm and again @ 1020p
DF @ 1044pm when he cried again 

Today:
W @ 351am and I fed him
W @ 5am and patted him to sleep
Woke him up @ 715am and E
Pears (new food introduced) @ 815am
S fr 9am to 1015am
E @ 1130am
S fr 12:13pm

I am not sure why his first nap has been shorter since i woke him up at 7ish am. B4, he would sleep for 2 hours, but now is only 1 or 1.25 hours. B/c of this, our day needs to be changed accordingly depending what time he gets up from his nap. I am wondering instead of keeping him up for 2 hours straight, maybe try putting him down after 1.5 hours wakings or this is a transition period only and everything should get back in track once he is used to it?

Also, I have signed him up for programs on Tues/ Weds and it's from 1pm to 3pm (including travel time), so I am not sure how we can incorporate that in our schedule as well?

[Bex09]

Hi there, could your DS be in some sort of pain or discomfort at all? Waking up every 20 mins or so is usually to do with pain. Have these NW started since you introduced solids? At what age did you start solids and was there any reason that you introduced them early (pre 6 mo)?

[lamx8810]

I have give him cereal for about 2 - 3 weeks now.. first tried rice cereal, then oatmeal. I wasn't give him meal everyday. It didn't look like he was in pain cause he fell asleep on his own right after i fed him.  I don't remember him waking up w/in 20 mins before.. U think that has something to do with that? But solids was introduced 2 - 3 weeks ago.

[Bex09]

Hi, was just asking about the NW happening as solids were introduced as sometimes LOs can have digestive upsets that are caused by the new foods and that can cause NW from discomfort. My DD had terrible NW when she had baby rice, she just couldn't tolerate it at all.

How have your nights been going now? Have you had a peep in DS's mouth to look for signs of teeth?

[lamx8810]

NO teeth had cut thru yet. however, he is drooling a lot and has been chewing on his fingers a lot, especially, it's almost impossible to get them out of his mouth. Besides, DS also has a hoarse voice starting yesterday. I am wondering if he is sick. No other symptoms except fussiness. He is really fussy today, even after his naps. He woke up at 654am today and took his first nap at 9am.. slept for 50 mins.. and his second nap was at 1230pm for 2 hours, another nap at 410pm for 50 mins.

I didn't DF him last night as he was sleeping so soundly and woke up 2am to feed. He woke up again an hour later and i went to comfort him. he woke up again at 545am but fell asleep on his own after 5 mins.

[Bex09]

Sounds like it could well be teeth causing the discomfort. Have you tried giving pain meds 20 or 30 mins before BT?