Twins and night waking - help!

[Helen25]

Hi,

I'm looking for some advice with twins. I have non-identical 5 month old boys who couldn't be more different both in looks and temperament. Both are still waking in the night though, although one is more needy than the other. Alex, the older twin is pretty reliable and I'm sure he would have been sleeping through the night before now if it wasn't for his more agitated brother, James.

Their daytime routine is approximately as follows:

E - 6:00 - 7 wake and feed (rarely take a full feed - Alex usually has to be woken, James might wake anywhere between 6 and 7)
S - 8:30 - nap (45 mins)
E - 10:00 - feed (3 - 5 oz)
S - 11 - 11:30 - nap (1 - 2 hours)
E - 1 - 1:30 - feed (3 - 5 oz)
S - 3 - nap (30 - 45 mins time depends on length of previous nap)
E - 4 - 4:30 - feed (2 - 5 oz)
E - 6:30 - feed (3 - 5 oz) and bed
E - 10pm - dream feed (3 - 4 oz - James often wakes before this)
E - 2 - 3am (both will wake at some point here for more food and if I'm really unlucky, again at 5 ish. Sometimes, Alex will go through to 4 or 5 before waking)

I've tried dummies and while it might hold James off for 30 mins to an hour, he invariably wakes again and refuses to settle until he's been fed. He's quite happy to take 3- 5 oz in the middle of the night. I did try to cut it down to 3, but it just took him longer to settle afterwards and he woke again at 5ish looking for more. 

As you can see, it looks a bit all over the place and the fact that there are two of them, just complicates things! They seem to be eating far to many times for their age, but overall don't take a lot on board. I'm so surprised that Alex is in the 98th percentile (he weighs about 19.5lbs) as he generally only has about 24 oz per day. They were born by CS at 38 weeks and were both really good weights. As they are now. The only fly in the ointment is that James needed an operation at 4 months for sagittal synostosis (fused plates in his head) and will need another smaller op in February. While we knew that the general anaesthetic would throw things a bit, but he's never been a great sleeper anyway and always needed to be held more than Alex.

I also have a 3-year old (who's a great sleeper, although wasn't until she weaned at 6 months), so any CIO suggestions aren't really workable. These boys have REALLY loud cries and would wake the household!

I feel that they should be on that 4 hourly cycle by now, but they don't seem to be eating enough to see them through to the next feed. And as my daughter needs to be collected from nursery at 3pm it complicates the schedule anyway. So I'm a bit stuck. One day, they're on a 3 hour, the next I try to extend it to 3.5, but then the night waking throws things off kilter again and the length of their daytime naps are not that predictable either. I'm intending to wean in two weeks or so, but wonder if starting earlier might help.

 

[Erin M]

Hi, welcome!
First off, I'd say the night feed is totally normal for their age so I'd keep feeding them at night -- I know that many twin moms will do the feed together at that age so they don't have to get up twice.

I'd also say that your first A time needs to be longer so that they'll take a longer nap.  If they wake at 7 and you put them down for a nap at 8:30 you'd only have 1.5 hours of A time and they most likely need more than 2 at this age.  That would also help space your feedings out and hopefully get better ones from them. 

I think you've some overtirdness earlier in the day which is messing with your nights.

What do you think?

[Helen25]

Thank you for this advice. I think it makes sense and I hope you're right. It's something I had considered when I'd read some of the other posts on this site. I'll try to keep them up a bit longer for the first awake period and see what happens. Last night was pretty awful with James just waking for no apparent reason practically every 90 mins. Not hungry, not upset, just NOISY! I would feed them both together (and was when they were only waking once in the night - pre-operation), but as James's first waking is between 1 and 2, it's just too early for Alex, who wakes any time between 3 and 5). I fed them together at 2 last night and Alex woke again for a snack at 5!

This morning James finally woke at 6:30 and as Alex didn't get up until 7, I put them both down to nap at about 8:45. They still only took 45 mins. I'll try again tomorrow though to see if it makes a difference over time. My only concern is that they get too much daytime sleep and that affects the night. Saying that, I know that good day sleeping makes for good nights too and at the moment they're only getting about 3 - 3.5 hours daytime sleep as it is, which doesn't seem enough somehow.

I'm also thinking about dropping the dreamfeed if they don't wake for it. As I'm up from about 1:30am anyway, I could hope that not interrupting their early evening feed might make a difference.

I'll try to get them both up before 7 and try for a 9am nap again tomorrow. Perhaps even a 9:15 if I can stand it!

I really thought second time around would be easier. Such a shame they don't come with instructions...

[Erin M]

I'm also thinking about dropping the dreamfeed if they don't wake for it. As I'm up from about 1:30am anyway, I could hope that not interrupting their early evening feed might make a difference.

It certainly could.  Sometimes dropping the dream feed helps get better sleep. 

My only concern is that they get too much daytime sleep and that affects the night.

To some extent, it's really the quality of the daytime sleep that makes the difference.  If you're getting lots of short naps, it's not really going to help you -- and getting some longer A times in there will help as well. 

I really thought second time around would be easier. Such a shame they don't come with instructions..

SO true.  I thought I was doing great after 2 and my 3rd was the worst sleeper of the bunch -- and you've got 2 of them at once, can't even imagine! 

Wondering as well about the GA with James -- did the doctor mention it might have some sort of lasting effects?  It's so hard to tell what causes what sometimes!

[Helen25]

Hi Erin,

Thanks again for your advice. It seems to have helped. We've had two better nights now. The first, they both woke at 10pm for the DF so gave them 6oz apiece. The slept till 2:30 when James woke. Fed him, then fed Alex even though he was asleep. James messed about for a good 2 hours - not crying, just chatting so in the end I changed his nappy and that seemed to settle him. Both then slept till 6:30 and 7.

Yesterday I kept them up till 9 then they slept for an hour. Fed again at 10:30, then we were out and about, so no proper quality sleep, but both napped in bed at 5 and I woke them at 5:50 as I got a bit worried that they'd not sleep at 7. No problems there though and both slept through till James woke again at 10 for the DF. Fed both and again both woke at 2 for NF. In the end James woke again at 5, but I dummied him and we had to wake them both at 7am!

So something's working and I'm at least getting some 3 hour sleep phases myself, which is half the battle. I'm going to hold off on weaning for a couple of weeks now and hope that things get sorted between now and then. I would also like to cut down on the quantities that they're drinking at night, as they're not having a full feed (whatever THAT is) in the day.

The doctors said that the general anaesthetic would probably affect James's sleeping, but little was really known about it. They said he may be unsettled for 2 - 3 weeks after it. He was, but as we were staying with parents (we live in Spain and came back for the op), things were a bit unsettled anyway. We have to go through it all again in February, so we'll probably be back to square 1 again then anyway!

All credit to you for doing this 3 separate times. I definitely won't be doing this again!

[Erin M]

All credit to you for doing this 3 separate times. I definitely won't be doing this again!

LOL, it's amazing how you forget when they get older.   

It sounds like good progress -- I think you're headed in the right direction.  3 hour stretches feel amazing after not getting them.  I hope it continues.