5 Month Old Waking Issue

[SleepyHusband]

Hello. I am the father to a 5 month old baby boy. He has been the best baby we could ask for and has slept really well until recently. Of course when he was very young he awoke several times throughout the night for his mother to breast feed him. But up until recently he had been awaking only once a night to be fed and would then sleep through the whole night. When I say whole night, we put him down around 7:30, he would wake around 4:00am to eat and then would sleep until around 7am. He slowly got into waking up at 5-6 am. When I say wake, he would be wide eyed and smiling at you when you looked over the crib at him. So, to get some sleep, his mother would bring him into the bed with us for a couple hours until we had to get up for work. Many times he would stay asleep in our bed until we physically had to get him up to take him to the babysitter.

Then the fun stuff started. Starting about 3 weeks ago, he would wake around midnight. We would go into his room simply turn him onto his side and put his pacifier back into his mouth. But then he started doing this every 30 minutes or so. Just needing to be turned onto his side and given his pacifier. We thought that maybe he was starting to learn that if he fussed, his momma would put him in the bed with us, so we cut that out about 2 weeks ago. This has still not gotten any better. He wakes up every 30 minutes to one hour. His eyes are still closed and he is still very sleepy and instantly goes back to sleep once you adjust his sleeping position and give him his pacifier but a little while later its a repeat. We are basically getting no sleep from about midnight to 3 am. We thought that maybe he was teething but after 3 weeks of this there is still no teeth showing. We have even tried letting him cry out and not going in there. But all this seems to do is wake him further to where it is that much harder to get him back to sleep.

We have him on a great nap schedule through the day. We are totally mystified as to what is causing this. Anyone's suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[lilisuze]

hi there and welcome to bw! you'll find lots of help here

please can you post your daily routine for us so we can take a look? like this if you can

e milk 815
a 8-10.25
s 1025-1145

all the way through the day like a long list

any signs of teething? have you tried giving any meds in the night when he first wakes?

[Rebekahb]

hi, waiting to see your day routine but also around 4ish months babes go through a big growth spurt and maybe this is why he started waking a few weeks ago.  It seems he settles after 3am when he gets fed???  Maybe it is worth a try to up his intake a little through the day and see if this helps.  Is he bottle or breast fed at this point??  With bottle you just might add an extra ounce in his feeds and if he is BF you might get your wife to feed on both sides and then a little on the first side for a day to up her milk supply.

[SleepyHusband]

hi there and welcome to bw! you'll find lots of help here

please can you post your daily routine for us so we can take a look? like this if you can

e milk 815
a 8-10.25
s 1025-1145

all the way through the day like a long list

any signs of teething? have you tried giving any meds in the night when he first wakes?

His schedule is as follows:

Wakes:  6:00-7:00am
Eats:  7:00 (breastfed so quantity unknown)
Naps: 9:00 am (usually 45 minutes-1-1/2hours)
Eats: 10:00am (grandmother feeds about 5 ozs of thawed breastmilk)
Naps: 12:00noon (usually 45 minutes-1-1/2hours)
Eats: 1:00pm (grandmother feeds about 5 ozs of thawed breastmilk)
Naps: 3:00pm (usually his final nap for the day, after his momma gets him we keep him up until bedtime)
Eats: 4:15pm (breastfed, momma has him by now)
Eats: 7:30pm (breastfed)
Bathed and in bed between 7:30 and 8:00
Wakes around midnight for the previously mentioned unknown reason and continues to wake often until around 2-3:00 am when fed.  Sometimes he will wake up several times again but usually lasts from this point until around 5:00-6:00 when he is up for good.

This schedule does fluctuate slightly but not by much.

As I mentioned there are not signs of teething. We have from time to time given him childrens tylenol just in case he was in some pain but the affects were minimal.

[SleepyHusband]

hi, waiting to see your day routine but also around 4ish months babes go through a big growth spurt and maybe this is why he started waking a few weeks ago.  It seems he settles after 3am when he gets fed???  Maybe it is worth a try to up his intake a little through the day and see if this helps.  Is he bottle or breast fed at this point??  With bottle you just might add an extra ounce in his feeds and if he is BF you might get your wife to feed on both sides and then a little on the first side for a day to up her milk supply.

He seems to settle more than normal after he eats around 3 am but not as settled as he was a month or so ago.  When he is breastfed his momma lets him eat until he is finished...she doesnt cut him off and always uses both breasts.  I will mention to her to switch back to the first breast but usually by this point he is content and doesnt seem to want any more.

[lilisuze]

my initial thoughts are this

his last a time before bed is really long

waking every 40 minutes or so is a sign of not being able to resettle or discomfort, which was why I mentioned teeth. babies can be teething for ages before and tooth breaks through, but if Med is not having much effect then it's more likely to be the prop causing the issue

if the waking starts the same time every night you could try a technique called wake
 to sleep. I can't link from my phone but there is a sticky somewhere you could look at

also, he could genuinely be hungry and that's why he keeps waking. would you consider a dream feed before you go to bed?

[Rebekahb]

just wondering if any changes happened prior to his wakings increasing??  when did your wife go back to work?  you seem really tuned in to what is going on and not wanting to start AP like bringing him in your bed, etc which is great. Have you ever fed ealrlier than 3am to see if he was purpose extra hungry??  I agree his A time is long in the evening but some babes do cut out the CN early.  Since this all started about a month ago i wondering about the growth spurt still.  Also, when your wife is a t work does she continue to pump?  Just wondering if milk supply has decreased which has lead to increase wakings??  Sorry for my ramblings just thinking whil typing

[SleepyHusband]

my initial thoughts are this

his last a time before bed is really long

waking every 40 minutes or so is a sign of not being able to resettle or discomfort, which was why I mentioned teeth. babies can be teething for ages before and tooth breaks through, but if Med is not having much effect then it's more likely to be the prop causing the issue

if the waking starts the same time every night you could try a technique called wake
 to sleep. I can't link from my phone but there is a sticky somewhere you could look at

also, he could genuinely be hungry and that's why he keeps waking. would you consider a dream feed before you go to bed?

As I said, this fluctuates from time to time.  Sometimes his last nap may start late and he doesn't awake until closer to 5:00pm.  But we do try to stretch it out a little more before bed time in hopes that he is tired enough to sleep well.  I looked into wake to sleep and it is something we might be willing to try.  If you could, try to explain this technique to me in such a way that it is applicable to my situation.  The dream feed is a thought as well.  However, due to the fact that we are so tired all of the time, we usually go to bed not long after we put him down.  For example,  we may feed him at 7:00, but him down by 7:30, and then we are in the bed by 8:30 so it is really only 1-1/2 hours since he fed last.  My instincts tell me that it is something other than him being hungry with the pattern in which he is waking up.

[SleepyHusband]

just wondering if any changes happened prior to his wakings increasing??  when did your wife go back to work?  you seem really tuned in to what is going on and not wanting to start AP like bringing him in your bed, etc which is great. Have you ever fed ealrlier than 3am to see if he was purpose extra hungry??  I agree his A time is long in the evening but some babes do cut out the CN early.  Since this all started about a month ago i wondering about the growth spurt still.  Also, when your wife is a t work does she continue to pump?  Just wondering if milk supply has decreased which has lead to increase wakings??  Sorry for my ramblings just thinking whil typing

Nothing in particular happened prior to this.  My wife went back to work back in November so I do not think that has anything to do with it.  My wife usually doesn't feed him until he is noticeably hungry.  We can tell the difference in his general fussiness and his hunger cry.  He just doesn't really wake up hungry until around 2 or so.  I will mention to my wife that maybe we try feeding him around midnight when he first wakes up.  The growth spurt could be a possibility worth looking into.  My wife does continue to pump at work.  She is still easily pumping 4-6 ozs from each breast everyday and there is still some left in there. 

I do apologize for being a nooby but these acronyms (AP, A time, CN) are confusing me.  If you could talk in dummy talk until I get the hang of it I would really appreciate it.

Thanks for you input and keep them coming.  I might have my wife try feeding him the first time he wakes tonight and see how that goes.  It would almost be a dream feed because he is practically asleep at this waking.

[Bex09]

Hi there, just wanted to say that you have been getting some great advice here.

AP means accidental parenting, when you accidentally create a prop that your baby needs to fall asleep, so feeding, rocking, cuddling, etc. CN is catnap, the last and shortest nap of the day and A time is Activity time, the amount of time that your baby is awake between naps. Hope that helps (HTHs)!

Does your DS need his paci to fall asleep or can he sleep without it? I am wondering if this has become a prop and he needs it to fall back to sleep.

Another thing I would consider is putting your DS onto a 4 hr EASY, so he feeds every 4 hrs instead of 3. This usually means that LO will actually take more at each feed because they are more hungry and you can get more milk into them during the day then. You may find that at first you need to go to 3.5 hr between feeds and then move to 4 hrs. Have a look at these links which might help... http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63161.0 and http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=120362.0 I really think this changeover would improve things. See what you think.

[SleepyHusband]

Hi there, just wanted to say that you have been getting some great advice here.

AP means accidental parenting, when you accidentally create a prop that your baby needs to fall asleep, so feeding, rocking, cuddling, etc. CN is catnap, the last and shortest nap of the day and A time is Activity time, the amount of time that your baby is awake between naps. Hope that helps (HTHs)!

Does your DS need his paci to fall asleep or can he sleep without it? I am wondering if this has become a prop and he needs it to fall back to sleep.

Another thing I would consider is putting your DS onto a 4 hr EASY, so he feeds every 4 hrs instead of 3. This usually means that LO will actually take more at each feed because they are more hungry and you can get more milk into them during the day then. You may find that at first you need to go to 3.5 hr between feeds and then move to 4 hrs. Have a look at these links which might help... http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63161.0 and http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=120362.0 I really think this changeover would improve things. See what you think.

Thank you for the definitions there.  Things are a little more clear now. 

He does not need a paci to fall asleep necessarily.  It depends on how tired he is.  If he isn't super tired but we are trying to get him to sleep because it is time it usually requires a paci. 

I will look into these techniques you have mentioned and might give them a shot.  It will be hard to implement since he is with his grandparents for the most of the day.  Much easier if my wife wasn't working but we will see what we can do.  First we are going to try feeding him the first time he wakes and see if that keeps him asleep longer through the night. 

[SleepyHusband]

Well last night was better.  We put him to bed at his normal time (7:30) and he awoke at 11:30.  My wife went ahead and fed him at that time.  He slept solid until about 2:30 and she went ahead and fed him again.  Both of these were pretty much "dream feeds" as he really wasn't very awake.  Slept pretty solid again until about 5:15 this morning and it was kind of rough from there but a much better night than normal.  Maybe he is going through a growth spurt and is needing to be fed more often.  We may combine this with some Ora-gel tonight to see if that helps more.  We will possibly work through some of the techniques you all have mentioned as well and see if we can further improve things.  Thanks for your help.  I will get back with you all soon if I need more suggestions and to let you know of our progress.

[Bex09]

Sounds good. Will keep my fingers crossed that things keep getting better for you.

[Rebekahb]

just a thought with the dreamfeed...Tracy from the Baby Whisperer suggests implementing the dreamfeed prior to 11pm as it can actually disrupt sleep if done later.  So just wodnering if it might be an idea to set your alarm for 10:30/11 and feed him before he wakes the first time and then go from there.  Also, because he used to sleep through the night like someone else suggested you might want to increase intake during the day and because your child is 5months would probably be able to easily go 3.5 - 4 hours between feeds.  This might also helps him have longer naps   Hope he figures it our soon!!