night waking every other night

[emmiebruce]

I need help please, my DS2 is 21 weeks and capable of sleeping through from 10.30 pm ish (dd) to 6.30 am however he is waking in the early hours on every other night!.  He is on a 3.5 to 4 hr EASY and naps anywhere between 40 mins and 2 hours.  His day looks roughly like this:
6.30 wake
7.00 eat
8.15 to 8.30 settle to sleep
10.30 to 11.00 wake
11.00 bottle
12.30 to 13.00 settle to sleep
14.00 wake
15.00 bottle
15.45 to 16.00 settle to sleep
17.00 wake (we never let him sleep past this time so that he is ready for bed)
6.30 bottle and bed.

The wake ups last approx 1 3/4 to 2 hours, equivalent to his usual A time.

Any suggestions please, the HV has suggested CC but since most of his wake time is spent screaming in the night anyway this seems pointless!  I'm tired and desperate! X

[ZacsMumme]

Hun you're doing the right thing not letting him cry like that. CC is awful and there is a ton of research now that does not support it. Plus, your poor LO doesn't learn anything other than that you won't come when he cries

Anyway...I think your LO may be in a bit of discomfort. Have you had a nosey in his mouth to see if he is teething? this is a common age for teething to start and can really pest some LOs ... Look for bulging white gums. Have you tried medication when your LO wakes crying to see if this makes a difference to him settling?

His routine looks good, I am wondering if he is getting a little too much day sleep or not enough A time.this can leave them UT at night and they wake. This is usually in the later part of the night or EW

What time is your LO waking and screaming?

[emmiebruce]

Thanks for your reply, he usually wakes around 2.30 am and settles again at around 4 am, I have tried teething gel and also gripe water but neither makes a difference overall, I did wonder about too much day sleep but confused as some nights he is fine!  I also forgot to mention that he had a pacci until a week ago but its now gone

[Bex09]

Hi there, I agree with Sara and your DS looks like he is UT and getting a little too much DT sleep to me. His A time to bed could well need to be a little longer too as it is quite short. Maybe you could reduce the CN from 1 hr to 45 mins and then keep BT at the normal time so that your DS is getting 15 mins more A time to bed and 15 mins less daytime sleep. Does that make sense?

[emmiebruce]

Thanks ladies, I'm going to push his A time back a little bit and shorten his cat nap, I will let you know what happens!

[emmiebruce]

Well, things have gone from bad to worse, now Josh is waking every night.  I've tried extending his A time but even a little extra seems to end up with OT rather than UT naps.  The first day he woke at 20 mins but I was able to shhh him back to sleep and he ended up sleeping for an hour, yesterday he only managed about 50 minutes at each nap time.  He is waking at around 2.30 to 3.30 and doesn't need much more than his hand holding and shhhh-ing back to sleep which I guess is better but I don't understand why he can't self settle at this time?  The HV is still putting pressure on me to CC and I feel like I'm running out of other options

[Bex09]

Oh HUGS hun. Please do not resort to CC, have a look at this link for the reasons why it is NOT the BW way and is not recommended at all... http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-crying-it-out

So how much did you extend his A time by? Did you still extend after the short naps? If naps are short then the A times would need to be shorter than normal to make up for the short nap. What makes you think that the 50 min naps are OT and not UT? Is your DS showing signs of being OT?

[ZacsMumme]

hugs, hang in there.

CC and CIO dont teach your LO anything other than that you wont come if they cry and that is just sad Does your LO have any teeth coming? This is the age teething starts for a lot of LOs and can be quite uncomfortable and sore. During this time a lot of LOs have trouble settling and sleeping well.

[emmiebruce]

I did shorten the later A times but due to the routine of my 3 year old and picking him up from pre school etc they weren't as short as needed.  I reckon OT as he wakes up grumpy rather than calm and happy, todays naps were better, will see what happens tonight

[ZacsMumme]

good luck for tonight. its hard with 2! I struggle with just the 1!

[emmiebruce]

Ok now we've really gone backwards, DS2 woke at around 2.30 and is still screaming at 4am, this is the worst night in the last week!  He can't be UT as he actually missed his cn yesterday despite lots of AP so maybe UT although having been asleep since 6.30 how can that be?  To top it ofif my GP has told me I'm suffering from exhaustion (possibly PND) and is it any wonder? Between us dh and I have covered all possible causes and nothing helps.  Why does he do this? Last night he slept through till 5.30, why has he gone back to screaming tonight?

[emmiebruce]

He finally settled back tto sleep at 4.35, 2 hrs and 15 mins after waking which is exactly the length of his A time, is this coincidence?

[Bex09]

Oh HUGS hun, long NW are just the worst. Can you post your EASY for yesterday to see if anything jumps out as to why this happened. I know how tired you are, believe me I went through months and months of awful sleep with my DD. But try to remember lovely that your DS isn't doing this on purpose, there will be a reason, we just need to find out what that reason is and try to fix it for him and you. 

[emmiebruce]

Hi, here is the routine for Thursday and Friday:
Thursday
Wake 7.00
Eat 7.15
Eat 8.00 solids
Sleep 9.30 to 10.10
Eat 11.00 milk
Sleep 12 to 12.45
Sleep 13.30 to 14.00 (in car so unavoidable)
Eat 14.30 solids
Eat 15.00 milk
No catnap as AP wouldn't work
Eat 18.15
Sleep 18.30 to 07.00 with nw from 2.30 to 4.35

Friday
Wake 07.00
Eat 08.00 milk
Eat 09.00 solids
Sleep 10.00 to 10.30
Eat 11.30 milk
Sleep 12 to 12.30
Eat 13.30 solids
Sleep 14.20 to 15.20
Eat 15.30 milk
Eat 18.00 milk
Sleep 18.15
Wake 18.40 (back to sleep at 19.20)
Sleep through till 06.00

We had a good night last night but DS a bit snuffly so expecting a bad one tonight!

[ZacsMumme]

I think he is OT by BT with the short naps and not enough of them KWiM?

Your last day looked good with 4 short naps close enough to prevent OT...

Have you thought about trying W2S about 22 mins in to see if you can trick him into sleeping past 30-40 mins? You can try it on the first nap of the day maybe after a 2hr 15 min A time? Thoughts? Great you had a STTN

[emmiebruce]

I agree with the OT, funny that I started this with UT though  
W2S would be an idea but with my 3 year old its not really possible.  I think I need to extend the first A time as it seems to have got shorter over the last few days. 

Thursday was a pretty bad day as we were out the house so here's hoping the long nw was a one off! The trouble is that we can have two near identical days and have totally different nights...

[ZacsMumme]

If you can get that first A time right the rest of the day will hopefully follow. It's common to have the UT/OT mess with short naps...I've BTDT ad it's a PITA

[Bex09]

That is the trouble with routine tweaking, you can start UT but with too much of an increase in A time or a random short nap LOs can soon become OT. So complicated! Shorter than normal naps totally change the ball game and normal A times go out of the window. After a short nap you may need to shorten A time by up to an hour. Hope you have a good night.

[emmiebruce]

I'm having a rubbish night! Next doors child banging on the wall at 2 am and a nappy that soaked through after only 4 hours haven't helped either!  Tonight we've had screaming for just over an hour, slightly better but ended up with both boys awake for a while which was a nightmare too!

I'm going on a quest for better nappies tomorrow!

[Bex09]

Oh hugs hun. You can seriously do without outside factors causing NW too! We use Pampers Baby Dry and DD has hardly ever wet through even after a 13/14 hr night. Some people put two nappies on if that is a problem. How have things been going now?