BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Sleeping For Toddlers => Topic started by: Josie21 on May 10, 2011, 01:04:21 am
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Please help.
I did BW some time ago with my twins (now 13mths old) and, although they seem to self-settle ok, they still don't consistantly sleep through the night.
Recently, my son (always the better sleeper) has started waking at night and staying awake for up to 2 hours! It happens at different times. I never offer milk.
I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Our routine is typically: -
6-7am wake up
Offer milk (usually take about 100ml)
8am breakfast (weetabix & yoghurt)
8.30am activity
(From 9.30am, often go out when they may fall asleep for about 15/20mins. I don't allow more or they won't have afternoon nap)
Noon lunch (main course, then pureed fruit, healthy crisps/biscuit/bread stix)
1pm - 3pm nap
3pm activity
4pm Dinner (main course, pudding).
4.30pm Activity
5.15pm baths
6 - 6.40pm in playpen whilst watching CBeebies bedtime hour tv.
6.40pm. On our knees for milk.
7pm Up to bedrooms where we finish milk.
7.15-7.50 falls asleep.
The big problem with my son is his constantly wanting to stand up. He isn't walking yet. I end up pinning him down with the sheet to stop him! He won't tolerate a sleeping bag (I tried it too late).
He has 4 teeth and is drolling (which seems to have been the case for months). They both have had coughs, colds and ear infections since new year.
The activity time can be babywalkers but is now usually time in playpen. I have pool filled with balls which they play in after dinner and in the mornings. We also practice walking sometimes. They play quite happily in the pen.
Today, my son had about 10mins sleep at 9.50am. He then slept 1.10pm - 3.10pm.
He went to sleep at 7.30pm.
He woke at 00.10 and is still awake!
My husband took over after 2hrs.
He is a mummy's boy. :/
I have recently been getting in his cotbed with him to try to get him off in case he has SA (its hard with twins :( ). Sometimes it seems to help, other times (like tonight) it doesn't.
He is so fidgetty (it is v warm lately). I know he's tired (sucking thumb) but he still tries to stand up & I spend so much time stopping him, or placing him back down.
I feel a bit at the end of my tether and would be grateful for any advice on what I need to do/try.
Thank you so much.
Jo
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I can sympathize! My DD was never a good sleeper, and from about 9 months she would stand up in her crib over and over and over and over..... instead of sleeping. We used the BW book to do a modified pu/pd - at that age, you just lay them down and say your phrase. When we got a second round of SA a little while later, we used walk in - walk out. I don't know if any of this helps, but if it is any consolation, she is now three and sleeps (fairly) well!
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(((hugs))) I can't imagine how hard it is dealing with twin sleep! :P
My first thought was teething, but I also think the standing up has a lot to do with it. Most LOs when they learn to stand in their cribs experience major sleep disruptions. All of a sudden there's this new skill that they just HAVE to keep trying, no matter how tired they are! Both my boys went through this and it lasted about a week. How long have you been having trouble?
He has to learn how to lay back down and go to sleep, which he will. Are they in the same room? Can you try WIWO with him?
Giving him lots of practice during the day when he's awake might help as well.
:)
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Can he sit by himself when he is standing? If not you may try to teach him how to do. Practising during the day might also work. He can proably be teething as well; as in our house long NWs have sth. to do with teething. Try this, the moment he wakes up in the middle of the night give him some paracetamol, if it takes shorter to put him to sleep, at least you may have a clue that he is in pain.
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I've asked for another twin mum to pop on and have a look too. :-*
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Thank you so much for the comments so far.
It was actually 11.10pm til 3am! My DH took over at 1am. DS slept til 7.40am. I have just put him to bed at 12.30 so I plan to leave him til 3pm to catch up a bit as he wasn't interested in napping in buggy today (maybe 2-1 is well on its way).
The babies are in different rooms as always had different patterns/routines. I would like them in together again but that's for another day!
DS can lower himself down in playpen, using bars - I'm not sure if he's done it without the bars. I will pay attention today.
We gave him pain meds at about 2am (should have done so a LOT sooner) but he still had to be cradled to sleep in DHs arms (just felt he HAD to get some sleep any way).
My DS has started walking recently ans wants to walk all the time so is getting lots of physical exercise. DS tends to sit in playpen, throwing balls out of the ball pool I have in there. He sometimes has a play in the balls but he is loving throwing so I think he might not be expending enough physical energy and this is maybe why he is full of beans in the night? Its all guesses...
I have been thinking of WI/WO but its not in either of my 2 BW books. Can you explain it? If I leave him to it, he will stand up at end of cot. No crying. When I get up after a few minutes to lay him back down, he squeals with excitement to see me. My DH thinks he is just wanting time with mummy. :(
Having twins, I feel I am always dashing & have no time for play so babies are playing in pen. I'm not sure that, without an adult encouraging play. Again, a guess?
I hope this enables a bit more advice?
Thank you so much.
Xxxx
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Hi there. Here are a few links that have some WIWO info:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=167333.0
I think that at this age you want as little interaction as possible, especially if it seems like he wants to play. Also, if you are just doing PD, he's not learning to lie down and go to sleep on his own. Since he has been a good sleeper in the past, WIWO sounds like a good fit.
Bascially you would put him down to sleep as usual and leave the room if he is not crying. If he doesn't cry (even if he doesn't sleep right away), stay out and give him the chance to do it. If he gets upset, then you return to the room and say your key phrase, I always said "It's time to sleep". Then walk out again. If he is really upset you have to comfort him (ideally in his crib but with little talking or eye contact), but as soon as he is calm you will leave again.
The key here is to wait and assess whether or not he *needs* you in there. Some LOs might wail really loudly as soon as you walk out, but given a few seconds will start to calm themselves. This is what you are listening for. As soon as it sounds like he needs you though, you return and do it again.
What you are doing is teaching him to go to sleep on his own, but so that he still knows that you are there and will come back when he needs you.
Hope I am making sense!
This worked really well for my DS1 after a year, and it was really helpful when he learned to stand up. It is how he learned to get back down on his own. :)
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Thank you, again.
I am standing outside his bedroom door just now. I know he was on his feel before I even left the room! He's just saying the occasional word, but sounding happy. If he doesn't cry, do I go in after a certain amount of time & lie him down again? Or just leave him to... What? Not sure if he knows to lie back down?? Could be a long wait!
I will see if I can find that link while I'm waiting...
He slept from 12.40pm-3pm. I let him have so long due to missing sleep last night. I also added a story to the routine - just me & him in his room. It wasn't v calming as he just wants to grab at books still. :/
He also hasn't taken as much milk as normal (140ml instead of 230ml). He has been drooling a lot today.
Back later (I hope!).
Xxxx
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If he's not crying, leave him to it.
Fingers crossed you get a good night and he settles soon.
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Yep, I agree! :)
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Hi again.
Well, I have been in about 3 times. Maybe I shouldn't have but, to me, he sounded a bit shocked at me walking out and a bit abandoned. I placed him straight down and said: shush, its time for sleep every time. When he tried to get stright back up, I intercepted it and placed him down and as soon as he lay for enough seconds, I left. And he got back up! This last (so far) time, he didn't move so I stayed at the cot a few minutes (sort of reward for not getting up & for trying to self-settle. I think *she prays* he is drifting off. I have obviously left the room.
It occured to me that getting him to fall asleep is not the main problem (though its nice to now hold him down for half an hour!). Its the middle of the night stuff. What do I do there?
Thanks again for such great on-the-spot support.
Xxxx
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You need to do *exactly* the same during the night. This will help in the long run.
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Hey there!!!
You have gotten amazing advice here so far. It sure does sound like physical development and teeth are affecting sleep. I wonder if maybe you need to try skipping the morning sleep all together but get him napping more 12-12:30-2-2:30. With our kids if they slept too late in the afternoon then we had night wakings.
I suspect he probably is doing all the things the other girls have mentioned - testing out newfound skills :). Huge hugs to you - being a twin mom is hard work. You do sometimes feel like you run from one to the other all the time. Does he crawl? Maybe let him crawl chasing his walking twin? Might burn a lot of energy that way!!
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Ladies, thank you for your advice & support.
Yes, twinnies is hard! But also so special. I tried for 12 years so feel very blessed to have twins and one of each flavour! Its hard when you're 42 though! (43 now)
Well, I class last night as a success.
G did stir at the 45min point (after 1.5hrs & 3hrs) but that was all. He woke at 4.50am which he has been doing. Instead of hopping into his cot, I just lay him down with a shush (didn't say the time to sleep as I thought words may stimulate). I kept my hand on his bottom for a minute. He turned over, as if he was going to get up, but I just kept my hand lightly on his bot and, after about 5mins, he seemed to be drifting off. So I left the room. I went to the loo & returned to his door. Still quiet breathing so went back to bed and put the monitor on.
He woke at 6.20am. I went in after 5mins of light wimpering. I said good morning, opened curtains and put toys in his cot. He played til 7am while I hung up clothes.
Unfortunately, his sister woke at 3.30am and Daddy was up with her (wanting to play) til about 5am! The joy of twins!
I'm letting her sleep til 8am then will try the single nap for both of them and suggest DH tries similar to me tonight with DD.
Fingers crossed! ;)
Thank you again. And feel free to offer any other advice.
Jo
Xxxx
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Glad you had a better night!! Sorry that your DD woke instead though. ::) Do you think she was waking for the same reasons? You can use the same kind of approach with her. I imagine it's so hard when you've got two of them to deal with!
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I think so, Martina. I'm briefing my DH up on the technique for tonight! ;)
Mind you, I feel like I'm doing a bit of a hybrid between WI/WO and GW. G was up since 6.20am and when I put him in his cot at 12.20pm, he got back up. 20mins later, he's still standing there. Not crying, just an occasional wimper. I thought he was too tired and felt I should go in and lie him down and put a hand on him. I did this and he was asleep by 12.45pm.
I hope I'm not doing a stupid thing by mixing the methods slightly?
Xxxx
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I hope I'm not doing a stupid thing by mixing the methods slightly?
Not at all! GW and WIWO are tools to help our LOs sleep better, but it's ok (and a good thing!) to adapt them appropriately to what works for your individual child and situation. The most important thing is that however you do it, you are consistent. :)
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Phew! Thanks. I just thought I may be creating another problem.
I suppose baby-whispering is about total personalisation to your own little one(s). :)
Xxxx
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It is about following your baby. And yes, sometimes that means bending the 'rules' a little bit to make it work. We are so fortunate that Tracy has given us these tools to work with and helps us feel confident in our own parenting. :)
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A little update, after all your help.
I have found nighttime difficult to apply the WIWO as cries seem more real at night... However, last night, I decided to do better & DH agreed that he was happy to support me & didn't feel DS would wake twin DD in other room & if he did, DH would cope.
I put him in his cot at 7pm. He was asleep by half past. He woke at 3am & I went in as he sounded upset. He had pooped so I changed his nappy (he was going beserk on the changing table - I think he thought I'd put him straight back to bed), gave him Nurofen for teething & put him back down gently. I left the room and he drifted off.
Until 3.35am! He woke again but I knew he was clean, had pain meds & the cry sounded more of a protest so, with my DH beside me, I waited & listened. I really felt I tuned into him well :) I also use counting. If I get to 10 & he has paused, I start counting again. It helps me recognise real crying. After 16mins, he was quiet & asleep.
45mins, he awoke again. I waited. He protest-cried, much quieter this time for 3mins, then fell asleep.
At 7.45am I went in as I thought I hear a movement. He was sitting in his cot & gave me a big smile and an excited squeak to see me. We had the best cuddle.
I've put him in his cot at noon amd can hear him snoring.
Thank you for the advice and support. I know I have a long way to go but I feel much stronger.
Hopefully, it will make be better-equipped when its his sister's turn next... ::)
Xxxx
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Yay for you !!!
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I'm so glad you've seen some improvement! Sounds like you are very in tuned and have found a good way of figuring him out. That is what BW is all about! Hope you continue to see progress. :)
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Thank you!
Actually, I have another question...
Last night was the 2nd of the "new me" and both times, DS has woken and sounded properly upset. So I have gone in both nights. The first, as I said, he had a dirty nappy, which I changed. Last night, I just gave him a cuddle for a couple of minutes then back in cot. On both occasions, he awoke within the hour and that's when it sounded like a protest so I didn't go in.
What I'm wondering is, is it typical for them to genuinely need you the 1st time or am I hearing "I need you" when its really a protest (though definitely not the first night)?
Am I stopping the method working by going in?
Hope my question/issue is clear!
Jo
Xxxx
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It's hard to say without hearing him, but mummy usually knows best! So if you think he needed you, then he probably did. It sounds to me like he might be in discomfort from teething.