PLEASE HELP! 5 month old no routine

[kmalbin]

Hi everyone,

I found this forum whilst desperately googeling how to get my baby to sleep as he wakes every hour sometimes more ALL NIGHT LONG to the point I end up sleeping on the sofa with him on my chest (I know this is not ideal but I'm scared to have him in our bed as hubby is a heavy sleeper).

Tyler is 5 months old, he used to sleep through the night from 8 weeks old until 16 weeks when he got bronchiolitis quite bad and its just gotten worse from there.  He was in hospital 4 weeks ago with bronchiolitis again and he is now just getting over chicken pox (I have a 4 year old daughter too)

So, I am at my wits end, I'm getting no sleep and I get no help during the day so no time to catch up on sleep as Summer (my daughter) is a busy girl and doesn't take naps anymore.

I found the EASY routine and am looking for some guidance on how to get Tyler into this routine as atm I have to rock him to sleep every time and once he's put in his cot, he wakes up!

His nap times are no where near as long as EASY says they should be unless I am cuddling him and he feeds 3 hourly on the dot, is he not sleeping at night coz hes not getting enough sleep during the day?

I dont know what to do anymore.

Please help.

Kirsty x

[liveandlove]

Hi Kirsty,

I wanted to send you some support and encouragement.    Hang in there, Mum. 

I'm new to this too, have a few of the same issues, and also am just starting EASY.  Have you read either of Tracy's books?  I think "The Baby Whisperer Solves All Your Problems" (referred to as "SAYP" on this board) is excellent: clear, organized, and detailed; even better than "Secrets of the Baby Whisperer" .

If you're willing to take advice from someone who hasn't much knowledge or experience (yet), I'll note that Tracy emphasizes not to start something and not finish it--it will just confuse him, and you won't see progress.  You might want to start by learning about the methods.  Here's one on starting EASY.  It also directs you where to find more in-depth info.  Browse the boards by topic (e.g. how to extend naps; tips for when you have more than one child), or search on specific concerns.

I hope you can start when you are well-rested, well-informed, and well-supported by equally committed, helpful family members.  That's the ideal, anyway.  Best of luck to you. 

[kmalbin]

Hi, thanks for the reply, I was getting disheartened seeing replies to other posts and not mine lol!

I haven't read any of the books, I only stumbled across this site in a desperate search for help but it does look amazing, and dare i say simple, once in place.

Thank you for the links, I have this morning tried the shush-pat but he was having none of it, I did however get him to sleep for 2 hours by rocking him when he woke after 30 mins, I know I need to cut that out!

I'm also confused about which routine to put him in, as he is hungry, to the point he screams the house down every 3 hours and not a minute longer.

Where he's been poorly, he's feeds have dramatically reduced.  He used to drink 7oz 3 hourly at 3 months, which i was told was too much, it then cut down to 2 oz 3 hourly and I've finally got him back up to 5oz 3 hourly.  Is there info on how much he should be having?

Will have a nose through the site and see what info I can get.

I hope it goes smoothly for you x

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Hi!  Don't know if I'll be able to help cos there are others much more knowledgeable / experienced than me but generally the first thing you'll be asked is to post your day in the following format:

E: (what did he eat,  when and how much)
A: how long was he awake for?  What times?
S: What times did he sleep from and to?
etc. Until the day is done.

It doesn't matter if things didn't happen in that order,  just post how your days are going (or how yesterday went) and someone will be able to take a look.

Is he completely better now or do you think he's still suffering?

Re: feeds I can't help there much but I think they all drink different amounts really!  My 5 month old is just starting on bottles but seems to drink about 5ozs every 3.5 hours but my daughter at this age was having 6-12ozs every 4 hours.  I've always just given them what they want as they've never had any weight gain issues.

[kmalbin]

Hi, that helps about the feeds, I was getting worried coz HV always says demand feed, but the hospital said I shouldnt be doing that as hes on formula :-/ he is a chunky boy, but def not overweight!

I think he's pretty much 100% again, he's just very scabby, lol.  How do you deal with poorly babies, does the routine change, do you stick to it? I'm lost :-(

Ok, so I'll post what he did yest, and then what I've tried today after reading info on this site

Yesterday

E 6:30am
A 7am
S 9am (20 mins)
Y = NONE LOL
E 9:30 am then straight to sleep for an hour in my arms after a huge screaming fit
A 10:30
E 12:30 then
S 10 mins woke up grumpy - tried to rock back to sleep and had another screaming fit finally fell asleep at 1:15ish
A 2:30
E 3:30
A 4pm
S 5pm (1 hour) in my arms
A 6pm
E 6:30
A 7pm
E 9:30 straight to sleep after screaming fit
E 11pm dreamfeed 1oz
E 2:30am then finally gave up trying to get him back to sleep in his cot at 4am and got comfy on sofa where he fell asleep until
E 5:30am then back to sleep until 7am

then today

E 7am
A 7:30
S 9:30 (30 mins)
E 10am
A 10:30
S 11:30 rocking until 12;15 (with a huge tantrum) then slept for 45 mins
E 1pm
A 1:30
S 3pm (1 hour)
E 4pm
A 4:15
S 4:45
A 5:30
E 7pm
7:30 bath then bed
He just woke after 40 mins and I've managed to get him back to sleep with the pick up put down routine till he calmed down enough to just have my hand on his tummy and HE WENT TO SLEEP, he actually went to sleep without me rocking him!!!!

So since posting the above about him going to sleep, hes been fussing since, he has gone back to sleep with just me soothing him in his cot, but he keeps jumping and waking himself up and crying again.

I've been sat by the cot for an hour, and I think, well I hope he is now properly asleep, but how do I know when hes in a deep sleep?

Scrap the above, as soon as I'd finished the sentence, he'd woken up again, so I've given him a bottle and he's gone back to sleep again.

This is what it is like every night, all night - please tell me what I am doing wrong, PLEASE HELP!!

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Sorry, I haven't got time to post properly now and hopefully some more experienced eyes will see this soon but my first thought is that after all that illness he's probably overtired,  and the 20/30 minute naps and waking soon after bedtime probably indicate that too.  I'm honestly not sure whether it's best to tackle the rocking to sleep first or get his awake times right but if it were me I'd get him to sleep by any means possible for a day or two then try and work on him sleeping independently.  That's assuming I'm reading it right that you rock him to sleep for naps and at night time? Is there a way you know he'll sleep well and for a long time?  If so I'd do that in the short term until he catches up.

Maybe starting tomorrow,  try and get him to sleep a bit earlier (say,  15 minutes? ) for that first nap and see if a decent sleep then helps with the rest of the day?  For what it's worth,  my 5 month old has just come out of a spell of being overtired and I had to put him to bed 1hr 45 after last waking to let him catch up.  Not saying that'll be the magic number for you cos if you cut it too much it can stop him getting a decent sleep but reducing his A time a bit will hopefully help.

Let me know how you get on, and good luck for tonight

[kmalbin]

Hi lovelylily,

Yes you are right I have to rock him to sleep for every sleep.  The only way he'll sleep for longer periods is if I hold him for the whole nap which isn't ideal as my daughter is getting no time with me atm.  She starts school Sept and I wanted to get some mummy daughter time in before then but its just not happening atm.  She is brilliant and understands that her brother is poorly and needs my time, but I feel so bad for her.

From last night, he's been like this

E 12:30am pat shush until
S 1:45
E 4:30am pat shush until
S 5am then he woke at 6am and wouldnt go back to sleep so hubby took over
A 6am
E 7am
A 7:15am
S 7:45am (45 mins)
A 8:30
E 10am
A 10:15am
S 10:45am and hes still asleep now, Im going to go in and try to catch the 45 mins thing, see if I can get him back off.

I think your right hes definately overtired, but when he wakes at 45mins hes wide awake!

I also need to get him into a 4 hourly routine, how do I go about doing that? Do I wait till hes in a good 3 hourly EASY, or start now?

I'm so tired, lol!!

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Aah see this is where my knowledge runs out....  I would say that a 45 minute nap was a bit UT and that going from a morning A time of 2 hrs 30 to 1hr 45 was too big a jump down for him but I'm battling UT/ OT loops myself so may well be wrong!  The advice is normally to change A times in 10-15 minute increments,  so if he was doing 2 hrs 30, aim for 2 hrs 15 instead and see how that goes. He probably needs to go to bed a bit earlier to get over the over tiredness, but needs to stay awake long enough to take a decent refreshing nap iykwim? It's such a difficult balance to strike though - as I said I'm struggling with it too!

Did he seem happy after his nap this morning or a bit grizzly or tired?

[weaver]

it does look amazing, and dare i say simple, once in place.

Hi Kirsty, yes, it is amazing and simple!

Lovelylilly has been giving you some excellent advice.  I'd say you're probably too tired to be reading books right now but when you get a bit of time, the Baby Whisperer Solves all Your Problems is a great read.  I constantly refer back to it.

You've got a couple of things going on here: a holding to sleep prop and short naps.  I'd say night sleep is being messed up by both of these.

You might like to have a look at the props board as you start thinking about how to deal with the holding to sleep issue. You can always start at thread there.   Here it is:
Props

One thing that might make you feel better is to know that 40 minute naps can be developmental at this age - I mean, at this age, some LOs just do 40 minute naps no matter what you do!  Frustrating!  Since it is developmental, it does resolve itself with time.  There are things you can do to help.  If he naps well in the buggy or sling, maybe you can transfer him into the buggy/sling and try to get him to do another nap straight away when he wakes at the 40 minute mark.  That way he'll get almost enough sleep and at the right time of day.  Worth trying, and you and DD could then get out for a walk.  If you can do that for one nap, and try to sit with him and help him back to sleep for another nap during the day, it will help a lot.

Those super short naps look like OT to me, so be conservative with his A times.  If he's OT, and he probably is from not sleeping too much at night (and you probably are too!), then he'll be doing lower A times than usual for his age. 
 
Have to go get baby LO2 up from her nap, but hope that helps for now!

[emmac1979]

Hi there

I'm still figuring this out big time for myself but I'd like to say that you're not the only one that gets woken hourly. My wee boy is 5.5 months and does the same. It's absolute torture so I know how you feel and you have my sympathies and hugs.

Like you, we also had no routine for naps and bedtime until a few weeks ago. The boy just wouldn't sleep. It's taken probably about 3-4 weeks to get to where we are now which is 2 naps a day. Sometimes we are lucky and get 2 hours, sometimes it's 20 minutes but we're getting there.

I'd say just to tackle one thing at a time e.g. morning nap and use the Getting Started EASY routine as a guideline then tweak as you go along.  My boy gets up at 7 (usually wakes anywhere between 6 and 7 but we get up at 7) back down for about 9 and he'll usually fall asleep 9.15 for however long. Then I just time having him back down 2 hours from when he got up and hope to catch his sleepy time.

It does get easier as time goes on but take it easy on him if he's been unwell Just know that you're not alone and you'll get there slowly but surely!

[kmalbin]

Thanks lovelylily,

Yes he was very bright when he woke from his morning nap but then was shattered after his 10am feed and I only managed to keep him up for 30 mins before he went to sleep.

When you say he needs to go to bed earlier, do you mean at night, or for each nap?  I'm finding it hard to grasp!

I've read the starting EASY at 4 months or older and think I will try that tomorrow, kind of makes sense to get him straight on the 4 hour rather than get him used to the 3 hour then change it again.

One question I do have is, do I not feed him throughout the night? It doesnt mention feeding him, just pick up put down until morning?

I hope we can both get through this with our LO's lol!

Hi Weaver,

I am definately going to get the book, I'm just checking the local library to see if they have any, if not will order online.

I have posted in the props board and hope to get some help soon on that, he also has a dummy (paci) which I have realised we are also using as a prop, so it seems i have a lot of work to do! But I am determined to do it :-)

It does make me feel a little better that its not just my DS that only sleep 40 mins, but I dont know how Im going to get around it as he doesnt sleep anywhere more than that other than in my arms or in the car driving. :-/

I think I will take this week to try and set this routine, then hopefully I have the rest of the holidays to spend with my DD during nap times etc knowing he's actually going to sleep when he's supposed to etc.

Hi emmac1979,

I'm sorry to hear you went through this too but I'm pleased to hear you have turned it around and that gives me hope lol!

Fingers crossed I can get this done, thank you so much for your posts and I look forward to any more help you can give.

I just thought I should post what it's been like the rest of today, to see if anyone can pick out where we going wrong lol.

Here is what I posted earlier.

E 12:30am pat shush until
S 1:45
E 4:30am pat shush until
S 5am then he woke at 6am and wouldnt go back to sleep so hubby took over
A 6am
E 7am
A 7:15am
S 7:45am (45 mins)
A 8:30
E 10am
A 10:15am
S 10:45am and hes still asleep now, Im going to go in and try to catch the 45 mins thing, see if I can get him back off.

So I ended up rocking him back to sleep as he was kicking right off and he fell asleep for another 15 mins and woke up bright as a button, I did catch him at 45 mins, and thought I'd got him back off, but as soon as I took my hand away he was awake again lol

A 11:45am
E 1pm
S 1:15 (in my arms, he was sooooo tired :-( (1 hour)
A 2:15
E 4pm
S 4:15 (30 mins)
A 4:45
E 7pm then bath then bed

So just to ask again, should I be feeding him in the night? or just pick up put down?

Also, are there any link to E.A.S.Y. by Weight” (page 29) and “Feeding 101” (page 95) charts?

And lastly, is there a reason I cant search for topics with the search bar at the top right of the page?  A search option would help me find info I need lol

Thanks again xxx

[weaver]

And lastly, is there a reason I cant search for topics with the search bar at the top right of the page?  A search option would help me find info I need lol

Just quickly, because it's bedtime here... yes, the search function only works for moderators!  Sorry!  Don't drive yourself crazy trying to use it.

As regards his routine, in my opinion, if he's OT, and he seems to be, I start where he is now, ie, feeding every 3 hours, and work the naps around that.  He needs to catch up on his sleep.  Once he's caught up, then shift him on to the four hours gradually.  In fact, it'll probably be an easy and natural change for him once he's well rested.

One question I do have is, do I not feed him throughout the night? It doesnt mention feeding him, just pick up put down until morning?

Is he exclusively BF?  Then you should allow for a dreamfeed (have you read about those?) around 10/10.30pm and up to two feeds overnight.  Feed him if he reasonably could be hungry.  If not, by all means try to put him down without feeding.  If he's upset, he may need to feed for comfort.

To be honest, Kirsty, I would start with daytime sleep and, with luck, the night time will follow.  If you try to change everything all at once, you risk a very sad and confused baby. 

Got to go!

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Sorry, I meant put him down a bit earlier for each nap,  but only 10-15 minutes or so cos if you put him down too early he might not sleep for long enough to have a nice long sleep.  So today,  for example,  I would have aimed to have him asleep for 8 or 8.15 (up to 2 hrs 15 minutes after waking for the day) if he is usually awake for 2 hrs 30 before his first nap and see if that helps. If it doesn't,  then you can try having him asleep 2 hours after he wakes for the day. If he's having bad nights,  as Weaver says,  you might need to go nearer the 2 hour mark but see how he seems.

If he has a short nap then you need to have him asleep for his next nap maybe 15-30 minutes earlier than usual cos he'll be tired from the short nap.

 I don't want to confuse you with lots of different advice though.... It's hard enough being sleep deprived and even worse when you start driving yourself crazy trying to figure out how best to fix it!

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Oh,  and just to add about the search,  if you put http://babywhispererforums.com at the front of your search in Google it'll return posts from this site.

[kmalbin]

Thanks weaver, i was so confused as to why the search wouldn't work! OK will start on the 3 hourly and go from there. Fingers crossed it works :-/

Thank you for the info for searching lovelylily.

I am finding it hard to grasp all the info, times etc. I'm going to go get the book somehow tomorrow so I have all info in one place, then I can just come for extra advice rather than expecting you all to basically read the book to me lol!

I'm gonna just give him what he wants tonight, so we both get a little rest, and start the day at 7am tomorrow on the 3 hour easy and see how it pans out.

I think I'll just concentrate on the routine atm and then work on removing props etc after (unless thats a really bad idea?)

Thank you all again, so so much xx