Bedtime Issues

[BabyBsMommy]

I agree - your lo probably can't handle much more than 2 hours before bed at the most and that is with bath and feed....you may have to throw a little catnap in there or do bedtime a little earlier on days where a nap ends early leaving you with more A time before bed.  It sounds weird but the later they go to bed and the more overtired they are, the less they sleep or the more they wake up.

[chrissy5050]

I am having horrible sleep issues as well.  My ds goes to bed at 8:15 gets fed between 9-11 then wakes again between 1:30-2:30 and once again between 3:30 and 4:30 and is up again for 6 or 7.  I am interested to see how your pattern is going because it sounds like we have similar babies.  He naps well in the early morning but as the afternoon rolls around he wakes alot like ever 20-40 minutes.  At night his first sleep is fine but once he wakes it is down hill from there. 

[~Kiki]

I decided to let my lo run the show over the weekend. Instead of trying to force the EASY routine on her I just followed her cues for when she was hungry and sleepy so we could figure out something that works for us. She has silent reflux so this could be adding to her short eating cycles (2.5 hours), and it seems that she is more content with more of an EASYA routine.  She slept so much better during the day and at night. And a happy baby = very happy parents!

For example:
E 7:30 AM
A 7:50
S 8:45
A 9:30
E 10:00

[BabyBsMommy]

Remember, it is fine to have some A time after S time before E...ie, like you said, EASYA....sometimes that is just how it goes before it is time for E again.  The important thing is to keep E separated from S and you'll be fine!  Countless times, ds had A before he ate after a nap.  Now that we are at 9 months and closer to 4.5 hour cycles it looks like this - EASYAEASYAEAESY (the last E that comes right before S is right before bed which is fine!).
Chrissy5050 - how old is ds?  Again, an earlier bedtime may helf things.  If ds is old enough, a df at 10:30 may help with the wake up between 9-11 and then from 1:30-2:30.  With the df, my ds still woke up between 3:30 and 4:30 for a feed until close to 6 months and woke for the day (still wakes for the day) at 7:00am.

[chrissy5050]

My son is 9 weeks today.  HE was born almost 3 weeks early so I'm not sure how or if that changes things. We have been trying and tweeking EASY for 3.5-4 weeks now.  His bed time is about 8:15 sometimes a little earlier and we dream feed about 11:00.  Sometimes he starts stirring before we get the bottle in there.  Also I set my alarm to df again at 2:30 to prevent the 3:00 wake and he started waking earlier.  Last night he woke every two hours almost on the dot. He is a very light sleeper and very senitive to noise, cold .... He fusses alot and uses a paci but it makes matters worse when he is hungry or really upset.  I have trouble figuring out if he is a touchy, spirited, or grumpy child .  One other question the on the last cluster feed.  I put him to bed and he is sleeping do i wake him for this cluster feed or is it essentially a dream feed?  Thanks

[* Paula *]

Can you post a typical day for us so that we can look at your routine?  Including E - how much, bottle / BF (how long), Activity - how long, wind down routine, Getting to sleep, i.e. independantly, rock, swaddle etc.

Paula x

[chrissy5050]

Ideal day which almost never happens due to visitor and travel or trouble napping more the 20-40 minutes

E- 6:30ish
A- 6:55
S:- 7:30
E- 9:00-9:30ish
A- 9:30ish
S- 10:00 or 10:15
E- 11:30 or 12:00
A- 12:00
S- 12:30 or 45 ish
E- 2:00 or 2:30
A- 3:00
S- 3:30 or 45ish
E- 5:00 ish
A- 5:30
S- 6:00 - 7:00
E- 7:00
A- 7:30 (bath wind down)
S- 8:15ish
E- 9:00ish
S- 9:15
DF: 11:00ish

wake at 1:30 - 2:00 ish and 4:00 - 4:30 ish and awake at 6:30 or 7:00 ish.

[chrissy5050]

So it's 5:00 Am and my LO has been up since 4:30 as ussual.  Is it possible that him needs to sit up for a few and he is uncomfortable laying there so long right now?  Or am I just making excuses for him?  I looked over my data from the last few weeks and he either wakes at 3:00 and stays up for a bit ( sometimes 5:00ish)or he wakes up around 2 and then again at 4.  He entertains himself in his crib for a bit then he complains and gets louder and more upset if I respond or try to shh shh pat him back to sleep.  That is why he ends up fighting me from 3-5 sometimes.  Then he ends up needing to eat again before he will finally drop back off to sleep.  Oh by the way he is taking 3-4 ounces a feed. 

Anyway last night he went to bed about 8:30 ( we ran a little late) I gave him 2 ounces before his bath and another 3 after (to calm him down and help him enjoy bath time it's better on a full belly and he needs calming agian after bath and change)  He went to sleep and I dream fed at 10:30 and set my alarm for 1:30 and got up and fed him again.  he slept until the end of the feed. I kept slightly jostling him and he would stir a bit but fall right to sleep again.. He went back down and woke himself again at 4:30.  If I can get him to sleep through those two dream feeds then we would be in good shape sleeping 8 hour stretches  

Should I stop fighting the 4:30 wake because he seems very ready to be awake for a good stretch and is there a way for me to slowly push it forward so he wakes a little later each week?  I only want another hour and a half   Thanks  Christina

[rinajack]

Christa - for the age of your lo 5-6 hrs asleep without waking to feed is sleeping for the "night".

May i ask why you wake and feed at 1:30? 

If it were me, I would wait until your lo waits to be fed.  Otherwise you are encouraging 3 hr feeding during the night.  If you wait until the lo wakes to be fed, the time of this feed will gradually move later and later.

Do you feed at the early morning wake up?  Maybe lo is hungry?  Does he go back to sleep if you feed at that early wake up?

Also, if you wait til lo wakes to be fed in the night, that feed might be closer to 2 or 3, and then 3 hours from then is the time you would be happy with.  I think you should try that.

[chrissy5050]

Thanks.  I was waking to feed him to stop him for waking at 3:00 and trying to stay up and play.  Now he has gotten up the last few nights on his own at 1:30 and again at 4:30 but at 4:30 wants to start his day.  Can you tell me if the cluster feed that happens after bed time is supposed to be a dream feed or a wake and feed?

[rinajack]

To be honest I am not sure.  When I cluster fed my lo, I did the last feed just before bed (after the bath).  This is the only feed of the day that can come right before S without waking them if you don't want to.

So in your schedule I would do the following feed times...
6:30
9:30
12:30
3:30
5:30
7:30
10:30

Then when wakes - feed.  And again if doesn't make it to 6:30.  Then wake for the start of your day and give a feed, to get the times back on track.

Because you said your lo wasn't feeding well cause was trying to sleep at the 1:30 feed, I think that this feed may have been disturbing the los sleep.  In the book Tracey does not recommend feeding after 11pm as it disturbs the los night ( different story if they wake for it).

Night wakings from hunger are not usually consistant in time.  So if your lo wakes every night over the next few nights at 1:30 - it is habitual, and you do not need to feed at that time.  If it varies, then it is hunger.

Also, I noticed during the day your los feeds are not always 3 hrs apart - try to get as close to 3 hrs as possible - if you feed to early maybe the lo does not take a full feed, and then can not last long again - it lead to a cycle of small frequent feeds "snacking".  If you are sure that your lo is definitely hungry, feed, but do try distraction etc first.

HTH

[chrissy5050]

Thanks.  I didn't realize I shouldn't dream feed while sleeping after 11:00 for that reason.  I guess I have to continue reading.  I have the short version (secrets of the baby whisperer) which I made it all the way through ( not as much detail and hard to figure some of the ideas/ routines outbut I am still working on the big one (The baby Whisperer Solves all  Your Problems). Tonight I will try to let him wake for feeds on his own and see what happens.

[rinajack]

Good luck, let me know how you go.  I assume you are BF?  Cause when I was BF I read the big book (BWSAYP) while I was BFing

[chrissy5050]

Nope bottle feeding.  I just have never napped since he was born.  I do chores and read while he sleeps.  I also stopped watching any TV at night so I used that time after dinner and after his bed time to read again..

[* Paula *]

Good luck Chrissy, let us know how you get on.

Paula x