BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: SarahE on October 11, 2016, 19:17:54 pm
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Hi there,
Just after some advice...for the last 3 weeks or so sleep at night has become disrupted...not horrific and I know a lot of people gave it worse, but not great either as I can see a change in my Lo during the day.
We have over the last few weeks had random night wakings - 1-2 between 2-5am where she wakes up screaming. This coincided with a little resistance to settling to sleep at bed time. And in the last week we have had wake ups 40 mins to an hour after BT.
Prior to this she was self settling...BT routine was breast feed, story, sleep bag bed. Occasionally she would start nodding off at the story point so you go straight to sleepbag and bed. She was sleeping 11-12 hrs at night with no NF or nws. Her day gaps were 1x 1.5 and 1 X 2. She stopped having a third nap about a month or so ago after sometimes having it and sometimes not.
Prior to the change in her night sleep her naps shortened so I extended wake time. We were consistently getting 2 X 1.5 hrs in the day but we started getting 1 X 1.5 and 1 X 45-1hr nap. This was when the waking started shorty after BT.
So I guess the waking shorty after BT is OT so yesterday I reduced her wake time, so her day looked like this:
7 - wake up
9.30 - nap
11 - wake
1.45 - nap
3.55 - wake
6.45 bed - resisted and cried though looked very tired...went to sleep at 7.30 (BT was previously 7).
We had no wake up shortly after BT so with 2 big naps and no wake ups we though we had cracked it...until 3.30 this am when she woke with a very loud high pitched scream. She was able to be comforted intermittently but even when held would scream a little once calm. When popped back in bed she would explode in screams...she would calm after some patting but as soon as she saw we (hubby attempted too) had moved away or left the room she screamed high pitched again. We checked all bases, nappy, warmth, hunger (she had fed well in day on milk and had three solid Neale of approx 1/2 cup - she started solids at 6 months and is now 7.5). I knew she shouldn't be hungry as she's not had woke for NF for about 3 months. But I fed her and she eat well (it had been 9 hrs since last fed at this point.
She was still upset and screaming after so we resorted to Pamol. I had visited the Drs about three weeks ago following no wet nappy overnight, and change in her normal behaviour - generally more upset and cranky, pulling ears, dribbling. I though teething but wanted to check for ear infection. Dr said all good and thought teething and advised Pamol for pain relief. Still no teeth at mo and to be honest I can't tell if they are coming or not...the only thing I notice is lots of chewing, some days more drool then others and some days her gums feel warmer that norm.
Other things going on at the moment...she learnt to army crawl about three weeks ago and is spending a lot of time rocking on all fours. She's also more upset when we leave the room, though sometimes totally fine, other times very unhappy.
I know this sleep issues isn't bad compared to some... My prob is once she wakes and is back yo sleep I can't get back to sleep again so essentially am up from 3.30am! Although very tired...I'm more worried as I start back at work soon and don't think I can function on so little sleep if this continues!
TIA ;D
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Hi
That routine you posted looks good! It does sound more like discomfort than routine which is causing the waking and screaming during the night. If you give pain meds does it make any difference?
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Hi lolsby1982,
Yes, we have given Pamol and each time we gave made that decision she has fallen back to sleep, having left her either drowsy but awake or calm and awake, she had gone to sleep about 10-15 mins later.
I'm just hesitant to give her Pamol even though it's only once in 24 hrs and not every night, it can be three or four nights in a row and I start thinking it's an easy option and I'm just going to Pamol as an easy option.
Though would be be right in thinking if if it wasn't pain Pamol wouldn't do anything.
We were wondering if it was digestive discomfort however there are no burps, farts or poops or drawing legs up. We have stopped giving her protein at dinner or lunch so she only has been eating it the last couple of days in the morning. Her solids currently consist of veggies, fish, beef and chicken.
I just popped her down for her nap and had the same scream...I thought I would given her a couple of minutes then go back in...after 2-3 mins she was fast asleep...so it's things like this with the same scream makes me wonder if it is really pain...
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Hi!
Stopping by and quickly skimmed the post--- I'm not sure about the screaming you speak of which of course, if you feel it is pain then by all means, medicate. Hugs and hope that if that's the issue it passes quickly :(
What popped out for me was the "shortly waking after BT" ...we've had that very often around here, and every time, it's UT. As if he's not AS tired to continue sleeping all night as usual. As you approach 7 months your looking at something closer to 3hrs. A time looks great but that waking after maybe means, she's not ready for BT? Worth a shot as it is almost always the case with us. Of course all babies differ :)
BUT, I do want to add that with new skills tey tire quickly. I wouldn't suggest capping A times but something to be aware of :) it happens ;)
Xo
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Hi FPT23,
Ah i thought I'd read that short wake up after bed was OT and hard to settle was UT. When she wakes shorty after she's is reasonably easy to resettle.
But I get what you are saying. Tonight's bedtime was a nightmare...she had good naps today, a 2 hr morning and an hour afternoon. She woke at 3pm so was aiming for a 6pm BT. She had been on off cranky from about 4pm...lots of chewing on teething toys and distraction got her through. She ended up going to sleep at 7.15 after screaming on being put in her cot, tried pats, back rubbing, dummy, cuddles. She eventually calmed after being held for a min and snuggled in but shortly after going back into her bed she started whimpering as I patted/rubbed, then quietened but as soon I left the room she got very upset and was inconsolable. Even after cuddles she continued to scream. I gave pain relief and she fell asleep after 10 mins.
I am finding it really hard and when I'm in it part of me feels it's a separation anxiety thing as its seems like when I leave she screams and when I'm rubbing her back she turns her head like to check if I'm there...but then when I leave and come back she's inconsolable.
She's actually just woke now and self settled...so her last A time was 3 hrs 15 and her wake up. Wasn't as short as it has been, it was 1 hour 35 mins... and obv she self settled rather than waking with a scream.
So we are 7.5 months so approaching 8 months...what A time would I be looking at?
I find it difficult to decide if she's in pain with the screaming, I'm a ftm so limited experience, and I'd hate to think I'm giving pain relief when it wasn't needed but each time I've eventually made that decision she has settled within 10-15 mins...which I've been told suggests pain?...
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Here is a link for the average A times Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!
Waking 30 min after bed is more often because of OT and certainly is the case for us. Each child is different though and what makes it so hard for us mums to figure out what routine works for our baby!
I remember feeling with dd1 that I was constantly giving her pain meds but her teeth were very slow to cut and they are pretty much teething constantly! There's no harm in giving her the medicine so if it were me I would ahead until the teeth are through x
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Hello! :)
Maybe she prefers shorter evenings to BT but more A during the day? I would try and push A a tad. But of course all we can do is offer advice and hope for the best :)
I found so much help and support here 5 years ago myself as a FTM. It's always a guessing game with these babies. We never really know and the best thing to do is try and try ;) ...nothing wrong with pain meds if that's what you feel she needs. It's not like your giving high dosage and it will harm her in anyway, yk? Even as a second time mom here, I'm left guessing and doing the whole trial and error bit.
She could very well be doing SA as my LO has been going through that too! Naps are essentially a breeze but BT is interesting ;) ...I realized keeping my hand on his bottom stopped the screaming ;) ...so I want to safely assume it was SA with us lately too. He also needed a jump in A time as he had begun a few NWs. The way I see it, they need to be just tired enough to sleep all the way through. Sure teething and developmental leaps play a roll sometimes in NWs, but this time around for us it was just a Mayer of the right amount of A time.
Hope it helps you in some way and I know it's hard especially the first time around! But you'll be back for seconds in no time ;)
Hugs
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Thanks FPT23
Defo helped :D they are little mystery aren't they! I pushed arvo a time today as morning one seems tricky keeping her up til 9.30 and we get a 1.5 nap off that. I pushed the arvo one and got 2 hrs, wake up was 4 so aimed for a 7.15 BT...didn't settle until 8.15....no pain meds despite feeling it was teething...we ended up raising one end of her cot and lots of cuddles.
She woke at 11pm screaming and though initially seemed to be settling with a back rub she became in consolable. I checked usual bases and gave her a feed as for one reason or another we missed to solid feeds today...still screamed after though fed fully. Administered pain relief...managed to escape the room and just watching her self settle at 12.30am Zzzzzzz!
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So sorry to hear about that!
Ok, when you push A times hun, you want to push ONE A time, at a time. Not all of them, kwim? Or she will be a lot more OT. It is a good sign that even with pushing though, your naps remained long so thats a good sign she is ready. But try with what you feel is best. Does she prefer shorter mornings and maybe a longer afternoon A time? Then don't push the morning A and just push her second A before her second nap by 15 mins...keep it this way for about 3-4 days. Once you see she's doing well and nap continues to be long, then perhaps you can gently push her morning A the same way- just that one. See what I mean?
Pushing A times can get her a tired and it will happen so do an EBT, when needed to help her catch up.
With her solids, how are you providing those atm? What's your routine with solids since you started? You said you just begun recently correct? What are the solids your giving her?
:) many hugs.
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Yes that makes sens. I have always felt she likes a shorter morning A time.
She started solids at 6 months and is now 7.5 months.
They are puréed but moving to it being more chunky. We are also adding some foods in the mesh nets now. We started with lunch then after 3-4 weeks added dinner but changed this the brekkie after a week as we thought it was interfering with her evening milk intake causing her to wake for a feed in the night. Last week we added dinner. We offer her about half a cup now. Some times she eat it all other times she doesn't. At the moment she eats veggies mainly, meat 4-5 times a week (mince beef, chicken, fish - though don't think she is keen on chicken so giving that a miss this week). We have just started to add fruit (pear and apple). We wanted to get her established on veggies first before adding foods with more fructose. Her veggies so far include, orange sweet potato, red sweet potato, potato, spinach, cauliflower, courgette, peas, pumpkin, parsnip, Brussel sprouts, and red pepper.
We are doing milk before solids though in the morning despite not having milk for 12--13 hrs so only takes one side as usually she spills a lot if she has more. She then has her solids about 15-30mins after.
This is how we look food wise
7/7.30 BF one side
7.30/8 - solids
9.15 - top up BF pre nap both sides offered
11.30 - BF both sides offered usually takes one
12 ish - solids
1.30 - BF both sides offered
4/4.30 - BF
5 - solids - occasionally top up BF after
6/6.30 BF - both sides offered - time dependant on BT.
I have tried cutting BF as been told she feeds too frequently and if I cut then she will take bigger feeds but after 1 week of cutting (we have tried twice) it had every time resulted in a night waking to feed - she's taken full feeds both sides at the night wakings). So I'm hesitant to cut it as it seems to work for us. I guess it will likely change when she starts daycare in 8 weeks.
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Just thought it's worth saying my daughters tired cues and hungry cues are pretty much identical so I find it hard to distinguish!
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Oh ok thanks! I thought the solids were recent.
I think formula/breast milk is more important than solids still and i wouldn't cut any of those. I guess as far as solids, just to rule out all things, be aware of the amount of solids and what solids you are providing at BT.
With BF, the longer you go without feeds, keep in mind that can also take a drop in supply. Have you noticed any milk supply issues? I also want to mention, NFs are still common with BF babies. One NW at least so if you've made changes to her daytime nursing sessions, it might just be affecting her nights and she genuinely is hungry. I BF as well and continue to on demand :) ....it's tricky isn't it ;) so much work and not so natural as they make it seem ::)
What's her A time currently? Our babies are around the same age... my LO just recently needed a leap in A time and when I pushed over a week or.2, he went back to his normal night sleep. I know there's a regression around 8-10 mths? Or 9-11 mths... sigh haha ;) all babies are different but my LO is at about 3-3.15hr A but in the late afternoons has been changing to needing a bit more lately it seems? He's always been longer mornings, shorter afternoons, baby... but that flipped recently. Could be because he's adjusted to our school runs. But, where do you stand currently- more or less?
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Yes, I'm happy to keep up the amount of day BF.
Her A time is about 3 hrs sometimes a little more.
We get hr up in the morning at 7 but she's generally awaake from 6.30 - her morning nap is pretty solid if at home - 9.30/9.45 for 1.5. Hrs
Her arvo one is less consistent. I think 2pm is the right time for her but two days a week she has activities which finish at 1.15/1.30...bad though they are only 10 mins from home those little eyes always close a few minutes before home but she wakes as the car stops. I've tried taking her straight to bed but it doesn't happen. I've found waiting another 45 mins works and we generally get a 2 hr nap then.
If I get her down when at home in the arvo at 2 sometimes she sleeps 1 hrs making BT very early...but sometimes she does 1.5-2 hrs....
I agree BF isn't as natural as the say!
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Well we have had a funny day!
No night wakings last night though she did wake with a scream at 1.50am. By time I woke, found my glasses and looked at the monitor she had stopped and was shuffling herself back to sleep. She was awake about 6.40 ish and got her up at 7.
We were out for the day so planned first nap in the car (she generally falls asleep earlier than normal nap time and only for 30/35 mins...(she used to sleep well in the car but this is generally her max now). today she fell asleep early an hour after her usual nap time so 3 hr 50 awake time and slept for 50 mins. Then we headed home at the time of her second nap...she fell asleep again nearly an hour later than her normal nap time and slept the usual 35 mins in the car. I took her up to bed at after 3 hrs so aiming for 3.15 A time before bed. She was relatively easy to put to bed...we haven't heard a peep from her and she's been less restless....
I know this is just one day but I'm wondering if like you said maybe she's just not been tired enough to sleep through...
What is the average sleep him for a nearly 8 month old.
Don't get me wrong I think she needs more than a 50 min and 35 min nap in the day, but with her usually clocking 11-12 hrs at night I'm wondering if she needs less than the 3 hrs she's generally been getting....
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We needed a max of 2.5 at that age. 3hrs was too much so could well be she needs a bit less to get a good night.
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I'm thinking 2.5 may be what she needs...last night she slept 12 hours no wake ups except a very brief one 5-10 mins after going to sleep..very easy to resettle...pretty much instant.
This am she slept only 45 mins....so we will see what this arvo brings....currently on 3 hrs A time and no signs of tiredness...we are trying 3 hrs 15 at the moment, though 3 hrs in the morning as her wake time isn't always accurate...she's pretty quite when she wakes and is a sometimes already awake when we wake and check the monitor!
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I'll eat my word, she did a 2 hr 45 min nap this arvo!
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Wonderful to hear!
We are 3-3.15 A times on our end and I've always had long naps. I normally try to stay on the higher A time because it's less stress worrying about naps at this age, they sleep longer at nights and naps (if in within AVERAGE A times. Nothing too excessive that would cause extreme OT and therefore disrupt nights and naps) and they can handle it fairly well once pushed gently (15 min increments)
If you find baby to be more OT than opt for EBT to catch up. Remember, when you push A times, start with one A time... not all of them at the same time kwim? To avoid bad OT :)
OT is inevitable I feel... in babies. Even toddlers! Hope it's easier here on out for u!
Xo! Congrats on the nap
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Thanks 😀
We have 12 hrs again last night - no screaming wake ups...and she's more back to her usually self in the day so I'm thinking teeth were the culprit there.
Today we have had 2 X 1 hour 20 min naps. Keeping the 3 hrs morning A time and 3.15 A time prior to second nap. During the second nap for last two days since I have pushed it by 15 mins she has woken after an hour cried quite hard for a few mins then settled herself...today only for a further 20 mins but yesterday for 1 hour 45. Was wondering if that indicated I've pushed too far and she's OT or not pushing enough and she's not really tired enough?
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Arrrr I cursed it...we went for 3 hr A time before bed..she was defo tired, but took another 39-45 mins to settle...cried each time I left the room. The woke after 45 mins screaming.
I did actually say to hubby this evening I though teething may be reving up again as her cheeks were flushed after feeding, her gums felt hot, and she looks like she's got the beginnings of a runny nose....
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Well remember, if her A was pushed during the day, keep the last A shorter. One A time at a time. They won't be all the same just yet. Little by little ;)
But if she's getting sick too, then expect it to go off a track for a bit.
Many hugs and positive vibes :)
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After that wake up she slept til 6.15am...started chatting to herself then called out about 6.45am :D
Popped her down for her nap at 9.45...she woke at 10.30 crying but self settled within a few mins after a shuffle to a different position.
When we went through a catnapping stage and I sought advise on here I was always confused when you start the morning A time from...when you are first aware they are awake or when they call out and you get them up. I was a advised time I get her up...but always wondered about OT...as today I woke at 6.15 and she was awake...so if I used this as wake up time her first A time was 3.5 hrs...but if I use call out and up time it was 3...
I think what I find difficult is I don't actually know what time she actually wakes...so her first A time could be massive without me knowing it...say if she's actually awake at 6 or 5.45?
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What a great night ;) !!! Again :D
If she was chatting at that time, and happy, it's a good sign that she's well rested.
As for her first nap, that was a short 45 min nap... she was UT (also keep in mind that her next nap would come up sooner too. I usually do 15 mins earlier. Another words, shorten the next A time after a short nap. Don't try to push) and I would suggest moving up in A times.
I understand it's hard to push because we are nervous of OT... but if you do it gently and slowly, all is better that way rather than just push all crazy and by a lot. Average A times vary but around this time they are between 3-4hrs. Some babies prefer less A times than average and some higher.. seems your LO prefers slightly longer A times ;) ...I tell you, my LO is 8 months (barely) and he recently had a jump. We are between 3-3.20 A time varying in his day.
If you notice, as soon as you began to push her A times, she started doing great nights. If she's waking up chatty and happy in the morning and her first nap is 45 mins, she needs a slight push. Especially after a great night, maybe she wasn't ready for her first nap yet, yk?
I totally get what you mean about the WU time. I'm the same- sometimes he's super tired in the morning but I swear I heard him around his normal time so I thought that's when he woke, but probably didn't haha ;) ....so what I do now, since his "average" (normally) WU time is between 6-7am, then the first morning nap is a set nap now of either 9:45/10:30...it's our pattern.. We've been good about naps around that time, give or take.
Keep doing what your doing! It resolved the NWs ;) ....for now. Until the next phase ;) ::) right? Hehe
Xo
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Thanks so much for the support and encouragement ;D
After the 45min wake up from first nap she self settled and did another 45 mins. We did 3.15 A time between 1st and 2nd nap (day three of this A time) and she slept for 1.5 hrs.
She woke at 4pm from 2nd nap so was aiming for 3 hr 15 A time - day one of pushing this by 15mins...she didn't settle easily I did sense she wasn't quite tired enough...took 20 mins to settle her and she's just woke after 45 mins...no screaming...yet...just lots of shuffling and whimpers on/off...think she's asleep again...do you think UT maybe?love video monitors!! I feel her last A time is closer to 3.5 hrs.
Ideally I'd like her in bed 7pm (selfishly as it gives me some time to tidy and clean up and do relax time before my own bedtime at 9.30pm!) but it's pretty much been eyes closed at 7.30pm...
What times Are your 8 month olds wake up, nap times p, and BT approx?
I think naps for us we are 9.45/10 and 2.15/2.30.
I go back to work part time in 6 weeks so that will no doubt rock the boat when she goes to daycare and I will have to get her up earlier to feed her so I can leave for work at 7!!
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Your very welcome :)
Well, with an A time of 3.15+ all day, the last A she's probably tired. My LO can't do more than 3hrs at BT if he's done 3.15ish all day... I would try for a shorter A at her BT if she had longer A time in her day.
I hear you about EBT- they are heavenly but no worries, it is good for your LO one too :) works out ;) !!
Ours is about the same as you! For our naps and BT..... for now ;)
She will adjust in due to time the new schedule if needed when you go back to work :)
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Awesome will try that! We had a good night again after that initial wake up :D
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Yaaaay! Pushing those A times seems to fix NWs ;) ...many are just worried to push! Just do it gently hun. That's what it's all about. Gently adjust them to where they don't become chronically OT and THEN have bad nights because of that, yk?
Your doing great! Xo!
;D
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Thanks ;D
First nap went well 3 hr A time....second nap... ::) put her down at 3hrs 15...it's now 3hrs 45 and she's rolling, rocking on all fours, have little whimpers then big yawns (the benefits of video monitors again!)...oh wait...she's crashed out ha ha so second A time was 3 hrs 45...by her own choice!
I will still go for 3 hrs to be....so hopefully won't be any later than 7.30pm!
Update: she woke screaming after 45 mins :'(
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When did she wake screaming?
3.45 is quite long. She's becoming mobile and that can cause some sleep disruption. It will happen.
I would go for an earlier BT at 3hr mark or so.
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She woke screaming after crashing out after the 3.45 A time - though she was in bed at an A time of 3.15 but played for 30 mins before sleeping...she then woke from that nap after 45 mins screaming...couldn't resettle so got her up nd worked to a 2.45/3hr wake time so BT was 6.45/7....that the plan...we had to assist her settling and she finally drifted off at 7.30 so her A time there was 3.5hrs after a short nap...she slept through ;D and no wake up shortly after BT....surely her A time can't be closer to the 3.5???? Seems really in the high side...
Would the wake after 45 mins by OT? I know precision lay I've been told OT is usually a wake up of 20-30mind and UT is after 45...
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Argghh...first nap was only 40 mins...which means next nap is at the time of her swimming lesson :-\
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Yk, i asked myself that same question about the 45 min thing... but generally it seems like UT but I had moments when my LO woke at like 50 min mark and it was OT.
Wait so I got a bit confused on your post haha... can you explain that again. Which was the nap and BT? Which did she scream with? Could you possible do it in EASY form?
:)
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Yip, no worries,
6.45 - A
7 .15 - E - bf
8.15 - E - solids
9.30 - E - top up BF
9.50 - S
11- A
1pm - E solids
2pm - E - BF
3pm - S - put in bed at 2.15 but played until crashing out at 3pm
3.45 - woke screaming - unable to resettle
4 - E snack. - frozen Apple for teething
5 - E - solids
6.15 - E - BF
6.45 BT - didn't settle until 7.30pm
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Back to night wakings :'(
Tried BT after 3 hr 15 A time however she resisted finally falling asleep 40 mins later and has woken twice so far..once she put herself back to sleep, this time we are assisting after giving her opportunity but :( she's not a very happy baby.
We just can't seem to get this BT right. Her naps weren't great today first was 40 mins after 3 hrs A time and the other was 1 hr 10....
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Another night waking last night.
Last A time was attempted as 3hrs but took 30 mins for her to settle. She then woke after 3 hours...I think she was trying to crawl as I heard her bash into the cot..cry for a few seconds but then she went back to sleep for 40 mins when I heard her bash in to,the cot again then cried, well screamed.
We tried to resettle, covered all bases...I decided to feed her and popped her back to bed awake and she went back to sleep.
Is there a growth spurt at 8 months?
Also I should mention, she had egg for the first time yesterday and seems to have had a delayed allergic reaction - she started with a little rash on her next we spotted after her first nap, but over the next 2-3 hrs it completely covered her chest, tummy and back :'( she didn't seem bothered by it though...
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We aimed for her last A time before BT to be 3 hrs again...left her awake in her cot after some back rubbing...she kept checking I was still there and crying initially when she realised I wasn't there...id managed to get to the door :D...from checking the monitor she eventually fell asleep...her last A time then was 4 hrs....
Unsure how to proceed as we have tried for early BT due to her waking think OT but she doesn't go to sleep early, she is hard to settle and needs assistance for a while before she can be left. Then when she is left she stays awake, quietly rolling, rocking and flicking her dummy if she has it in...
4 hrs seems a big A time for a 8 month old? But despite trying we can't get it any shorter! Should I be trying even earlier say 2.45 last A time before bed?
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Aimed for 3 hr A time again, she fell asleep after some time awake in cot, so last A time tonight was 3 hr 15. Had one wake up 1 hr after BT which needed assisted resettle, then another wake up, 7 hrs later (now). Initial cry and now on/off very short bursts of whimpers then long silences with little to no movement - when I think she must be asleep again so don't go in...then a hear a little whimper...
Is this ut?
Her easy looked like this today.
1.50am - nw
7 - A
7. 30 - e - BF
8.15 - e - Solids
9.30 - S
11.40 - A
12.30 - E - BF
1 - E - solids
3 - S - was in bed at 2.30 but played for 30 mins
4 - A
5 - solids
5.30 - BF - one side
6.30 BF as BT routine - didn't take as much as norm.
7 - S
8 - nw - assisted resettle
1.50 - nw -heard her cry briefly- but then self settled
2.50 - nw - attempted self settle - then screamed...attempted assisted resettle....resulted in BF. Put back in cot awake and quickly resettled.
I'm really cautious of NF as she hasn't woke for feeding since three months except very occaisonionally - I could count it on one hand and usually at tine when it is said there is a growth spurt. It's been a few night in a row then she's slept through again...I really don't want to create a habit.
That said I'm wondering if she's not getting enough in the day as when Ve previously tried to cut a feed she's started waking in the night for milk...and usually she has 3 full feeds and up to three top up/half feeds - she's still pretty much fed on demand though.
I think I've mentioned previously that it's been suggested I reduce frequency to get her to take more milk but I really feel she takes a lot at her full feeds (her face blotches at times she's that hungry) and when I've reduced its led to nw.
Both tonight's NW and last nights resulted in BF, and despit this she w desperate for milk shortly after waking as usual, in the morning...which if she hadn't been genuinely hungry in the night I don't think she would have been so hungry so soon after when she's used to going 12-13hrs without food at night,
I should prob add she's eating more solids now too. This last week she's started eating just over a 1/2 cup per meal...wondering if this is affecting how much milk she's having and linked to NW? We offer water with solids and she's slowly getting hang of drinking from a cup (360 cup or sippy cup).
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Hi sorry I've been out for a bit.
You did mention the BF situation and I had suggested not to do that bc it could cause milk supply issues I think but you mentioned you were ok. It sounds like once you fed her at night, she settled. She might just be hungry. Solids at this age isn't enough to keep her entirely full- its mostly veggies and fruits anyway- yk? That's not many calories as would be in formula or BM. Is there a reason why you only offer one side and not both in the late afternoon closet to BT?
I would figure out the nursing situation. NWs can be caused for a number of things. It won't always be NW free, yk? Especially not the first year at least. Hang in there hun. But I would def work on the feeds.
Based on your EASY however, I mentioned that if you get a 40 min nap, shorten the next A time, did you do that? When you got that 1 hr 10 min nap? If she's had short naps all day, basically anything less than 1.5 hrs, and she seems fussy/grouchy.. I would also do EBT to catch her up if she's tired from short naps. If my LO short naps, I reduce the next A always, slightly.
Many hugs. Teething is something to consider as well. Offer relief as needed :)
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Thanks.
Yes I have been slightly shortening her A time after short naps...looking for tiredness cues at the 2 hr 45 min mark and usually down at the 3 hr mark.
The reason I only offer one side late arvo as I've found if I offer both she won't take even a half bed before BT...
Every time I have fed her she has gone back to sleep straight away though she's obv been very drowsy when I have put her down she still rolls around to get comfy but pretty much goes straight to sleep or has a few small whimpers and randomly scratches/strokes the sheet...then sleeps through until morning.
So is it usual when they have been able to sleep though without NF to suddenly need NF? Could it be due to exerting more energy with army crawling etc. yep I understand that they will not always be NW free but seems unusual for her waking to be going on so long about 3-4 weeks now when previously since 12 weeks she has slept through...even when she was catnapping for just 30 mins X 4 a day between 3-5 months she still slept through....
I guess I just don't want to be doing something that is contributing to it as I'm pretty exhausted as though it's only one wake up that needs assistance, I'm hearing her at least twice and can't get back to sleep myself then for a few hours so I'm living on 3-4 hrs sleep a night...
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So sorry! Many hugs. I know it's hard... :(
Hadn't we had a few nights without wakes once you increased A times? I went back and read that you were on the right track. Did you stick w those same A times that seemed to have worked?
TBH, yes there are many things that can cause NWs. Growth spurts, certainly. You also always need to keep up w supply as well during the day especially with A times increasing and longer naps, solids etc. it's hard... I know ::) ...I BF as well.
Developmentally, her new found mobility can cause more tiredness and growth spurts happen often during the first year as well. Don't worry too much about your trying to help at nights. I think it's just a small bump that will phase out hopefully soon!
I'm sorry I am not able to provide better advice but I was sure we had fixed those NWs! :( sorry to hear they came back but positive vibes your way and many hugs! Hopefully this phase passes by quickly. Rest whenever you can during the day IF you can :(
Hugs! This will pass!
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Thanks. Yes I thought it was fixed but we then had a few nights with it back despite sticking with the A times. Last night she slept through though was difficult to settle so her A time to eyes closed was about 3hr 45.
We will see what tonight brings...similar to last night hard to settle and a long A time...about 3 hrs 50 til eyes closed...we tried to go with a slightly earlier A time as her second nap was short...I think she was OT for the second nap...but she wasn't having a bar of it!
Yes I'm trying to keep up with feeds, I fitted an extra one in today.
I defo think there has been an improvement since pushing the A times as we are getting a few nights STTN each week....fingers crossed for tonight!
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Right. I do also feel pushing A helped. It usually does ;)
I'm glad it did for you! Maybe if she's so unsettled, try for 3.5 A time to BT? My LO isn't even close to 4 hrs unless he was pushed accidentally bc of sports or events from DS1, yk?
Fingers crossed hun!! :)
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We had a wake up at 2 am for a feed and I couldn't get back to sleep until 4.30am ish :-\ and we have had two short naps today, 45 mins and 1 hour, both A times were 3 hrs 15...though she was starting to whine about 2 hrs 45...
She woke from both naps screaming...couldn't be resettled...first one though she had a dirty nappy so could have been that...I'm soooooo tired!
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Oh man....tried 3.15 rather than 3.5 A time before BT due yo short nap...1 hour 45 later eyes were closed...every time I put her down she screamed...only wanted me...exhausted!
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Aww many hugs!
That's difficult. I think it's best you keep to her good normal A time and don't jump around or push or take back too much.
If there is a shorter nap, the next nap shouldn't be TOO early, kwim? And if she's had short naps all day opt for an EBT and hope she catches up.
There is also some seperation anxiety around this age. I went/going through it too. Hang in there mama your doing well. This will pass :)
Xo
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Mmmm I was wondering about separation anxiety as she can be calm in bed and I go to leave, she rolls over, sees I'm not there and cries. Also when I stay until she's calm...no contact with her...she reg turns slightly like she's checking I'm still there...
We had two sttns but then last night she woke screaming..I thought she was hungry but she didn't settle after BF. I think teething is back in the mix as she woke inconsolable during her second nap too...lots of drool last few days and thinki can feel two small bumps on the bottom gums in the middle...fingers crossed for tonight!
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Sorry I've been out.
Well I'm glad your getting more nights down again.
Best of luck! :) and many hugs!
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Yes us too ha ha...we have had about a week of STTN now...coincidentally or not...it started the day before her first tooth came through - so think is the screaming probably was pain.
So she's getting on average, 11 hrs a night, sometimes 10.5 sometimes 12.
We are struggling still with her settling for bed. We have consistently tried 3 hrs for last wake time for 3-4 days, then increased to 3.15 wake time for 3-4 days...made no difference she still was a struggle and seemed to nod off around 7.30 not matter what time she woke from her arvo nap...even on days she refused her arvo nap (has happened twice in the last week).
I am wondering if her wake times need tweaking again as she's doing 1 X 1 hr and 1x 1 hr 15, one is sometimes 1.5 and very occasionally, like one a week/fortnight a 2 + hr nap. She 8.5 months now and is on about a 3.15 wake time before both morning and arvo nap.
In the morning we defo get sleep cues, but the arvo one we don't and I pop her to be following the clock give or take 5-10 mins.
Should I post on the naps pages? I read recently that at 8 months 2-3 hrs a day and 11-12 at night was the average so at a min she's getting 12 hours total, and Max of 14.5-15 hrs...
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Hi I'm sorry I've had problems with internet connections haha ::)
Why would u move to naps? If you are having nap issues it does help to start a new post there so you have more eyes on your now new focused topic and other eyes to see too! :)
Hmm well there is seperation anxiety around this time- could that be her bedtime issue? Also, if extending didn't work... then try to PD 10 mins before the 3 hr mark? See if it helps?
Super happy about the STTN !!! Yay!!!
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Hey, no worries,
We tried Pd 15 mins before the three hr Mark...first night was like a dream...but after than same as previous ::) ha ha.
Tonight she went down a little easier but when I tried to leave same issue...but managed to leave whilst she was still awake though very drowsy. She is also coming to the end of a wonder weeks leap...is now pulling herself up and standing supported. She's also worked out she can sit in her cot...but she knows how to get back down and does as she's been sitting herself up for a while now in the day and going back down...so thankfully doesn't seem to be much of a problem so far...when she has sat up crying and no going back down...I've just lay her back down, saying "time to lie down" and my usually bedtime line.
Still predominantly STTN - had a few night wakings but then another tooth appeared...so I'm pretty confident the night wakings were teeth related ;D
The only other thing going on is that she hasn't put on any weight in the last 6 weeks...she's being weighed again in 2 weeks, if she hasn't put on any by then she will have dropped below 9th percentile which will be down 2 since her birth...
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Ah well not every night is the same ;) haha! Some days they might be more tired than others even if you have the perfect A times- a lot has to do with just that; new found mobility. It's new for them and it's like their exercise, yk? So they get tired quicker- some days more than others.
I'm glad you established the NWs to teething. I had the same issue recently. He's an angel baby and I can't remember the last time (until recently) that he had NWs or given much of any problems at all...but then for 3 nights he was waking at 4am-- then I spotted the little teeth haha! I tell you, they play a roll! Do keep in mind as I mentioned before, a lot of it really is developmental. Not all nights will remain the same. Something always pops up. Especially with all the new stuff happening ;)
Congrats on the new milestones though! :D super cool.
As far as her weight goes... I think we talked about this?? Or not haha I can't remember... but I had told you to make sure she was getting enough in her day if she was now NFing anymore, but you mentioned your supply was good? ....well I'm not a dr right, not a lactation consultant/nurse... but I do nurse myself and it is something I've always told BFing moms here on the forum with NWs or moms that don't want to NF anymore or whatever the case is. That causing drops in supply and the longer the naps in the day and longer A times, supply goes down too. AND adding solids also kinda gets in the way. I mean, as long as she's thriving and happy.. which she seems to be with all her new milestones.. I guess I wouldn't worry UNLESS your dr said there was a problem? But maybe try adding some pumping sessions to up your supply and if she has a NW and doesn't resettle, at this point I would nurse.. and nurse on demand for that matter.
But mom knows best. Go with ur maternal instinct. It's always what's best
:)