Persistent early wakings at almost 9mo :(

[lilamom]

Hi ladies,

You all have been awesome helping me with my LO in the past.  We are still dealing with persistent early wakings--my LO will be 9 months next week

After evaluating a few weeks ago, we stopped feeding her when she woke at 5:15am-- we now feed 30 mins. after she gets up (usually 6:30 or 7am).  She often won't even take 8 oz (usually at least six).  She usually wakes happy or making noise for the first 30-60 mins and then gets a bit fussy if we don't get her.

I should note that she has been teething badly for the past 3-4 days.  She's cried out a few times in the night, but settles herself right back to sleep.

Here are our sleep logs for the past few days:

Tuesday
5:45am: wake
6:30: eat
8:30-9:50am: nap
1:30-3:05pm: nap (stirred at 30 mins)
3pm: solids (no milk)
6:45: bed (8 oz.)

Wednesday
2:15am: talking
5:10-6:40am: awake
7:20: awake, 8 oz.
9:30-10:50am: nap
1:45-3:05pm: nap
6:45: bed

Thursday
2/4:30: awake
5:45: awake, talking happily
8:45am-10:45am nap (awake at 30 mins for 40 mins)-10:45am
1:45-4pm: nap (2 hours, woke at 3:05, back to sleep)
7:15pm: bed

Friday
5:20am: awake (maybe dozed short periods)
7am: up
7:30: eat
9-10:10am: nap [woke happy]
2-3:30pm: nap
6:45pm: bed

Oh!  And she is usually wakes up very crabby from her second nap.

My best guess is that her sleep needs are generally lower than they used to be (13.5-14 hours per day?  With about 11+ at night and 2.5 in the day?) BUT since bedtime is so early, she wakes early and then is super tired by the end of the day.

Advice?  It doesn't seem like pushing her bedtime back a little (like last night) is helping, but maybe we just need to be consistent with it for a week or so.  Just afraid of her getting OT.

Thanks so much!

[becj86]

I think if you push that first A time up to around 3hr from when she gets up, you may find the EW and early morning NW's go away and the first nap may extend so its restorative (over 1.5hr, usually) then if needs be, you can cap the PM nap or you can shift BT a little later so you're not up so early

[lilamom]

Thanks!

So... say she wakes at 5:15am, she is up at 6:15am...nap at 9:15am, even though it means she'd technically be awake for 4 hours before the nap?

(Part of the problem is that two mornings a weeks she needs to nap at 8:30 or 9am =/).

[becj86]

Yes, if she's pretty much resting in her cot then it can be called sleep for some LO's - was for my DS and once I realised that, the routine worked much better. A time at this age has to be activity, not just awake, I found.

[jennandsophie]

My DS (9 months) has almost exactly the same routines (and the same problem with EWings at that 4/5am time).  We fixed the AM nap at 9:30am even if he woke at 5:30am.  He seems able to handle 4hrs in the morning.  Unfortunately for us, it hasn't helped stop the EWings, but hopefully the longer A time in the morning will work for you.

[lilamom]

Thanks to both of you!

Jennifer-- have you tried moving the bedtime later at all?

I was looking through some of the info on here about when a baby gets into an "early sleep phase"... sometimes it can be fixed by progressively pushing the bedtime back. I've been wary of doing this because of wanting to avoid OT.... just curious whether it worked for anyone!

[becj86]

DS always did his best nights 6-6 or 6-7 which was lovely and fit really well with our life. Now... we don't get home til after 6 and he's much more difficult re: sleep

If you were able to shift her WU later, would you be able to give her a nap after whatever happens at 8:30 those 2 days per week?

[jennandsophie]

Lilimom -we've tried a later bedtime, 7:30-8pmish and he's really hard to settle.  He actually did much better when he was going to be bed early, like 6:45 - 7am.  He would do at least 10hrs of sleep, but when he goes to bed after 7, sometimes he's only doing 9.5 or even 8hrs (like last night).

[lilamom]

Thanks for the replies, ladies!

We ended up doing an 8pm bedtime on Sunday night by accident (ended up being out much later than anticipated and she had a 20 min. catnap on the way home).  She slept through 'til 6:30am the next morning!  We tried it again the next night and again 8pm-6:30am.

So... we are going to try to stick with that for a few days and see what happens.  She is taking a longer (2 hr) afternoon nap that is helping her get through.  (I am guessing if I shortened this the night sleep would lengthen).

I would LOVE for her to be a 12 hours of sleep a night baby, but she seems like she is 10.5-11 hours at this point.  She wakes up happy after that much and has been for the past month and a half (except for when she was sick and did 13 hour nights!).

This may all come crashing down around our heads, and if so I will be back.   I think it helps that she has been well rested for months and can handle up to 4 hours of A time if needed (even though 3.5 is probably better).

I have been trying to figure out how to do her schedule if we stick with this.

7am: up (even if she wakes earlier)
9:30-10:45am: nap
2:15-4pm: nap
8pm: bed

I'd rather the last A time was shorter, but she can definitely handle it.  A few days a week it will need to be:

6:45: up
8:45-9:45/10am: nap
1:45/2-3:45/4pm: nap
7:45/8pm: bed.

Any suggestions?

[jennandsophie]

Wow, that's fantastic.  Stick with it and hopefully you'll keep getting the later wake-up.

[lilamom]

I know... I really hope it sticks.  We will see.

She has cried out or stirred a bit at 5:15/5:40 (previous waking times) both mornings but gone back to sleep

[Erin M]

We are on an 11 hour night now, in some ways it's nice if they can handle it as t generally means longer naps.

[lilamom]

Okay... so last night was 7:40pm-6:30am.

I think tonight we will shoot for 7:30pm bed and see if we can still get a 6:30am wake up.

She continues to stir at 5:40ish but goes back to sleep.

[Erin M]

Sounds good!  The stirring is ok, I found that all of mine would do that when we were getting rid of NWs. 

[lilamom]

Okay... I'm not quite sure how this morning went as we couldn't hear her well, but I think she woke close to 6ish.

I'm having a bit of trouble with our schedule, though.  She slept 1 hour 20 mins this morning but I have had to wake her from her afternoon nap at 2 hours the past three days.  Our  naps had been about 1 hour 15 mins. each for a while so this is really out of character.

Clearly, she is needing to make up some sleep, but I'm not sure how much night sleep she "needs."  She usually gets 10.5-11 but I'm not sure if that is how much she needs or if that is just how much she gets based on when we put her down and when her body clock tells her to wake up (e.g. we put her down at 7:45pm and her body clock wakes her up at 6:15am).  When she was little (4-5 months) she would do 14 hour nights and recently did some 13 hour ones while sick.  She is great with 2 A in the morning (which I know is short) and seems like 3 before afternoon and 3.5 before bedtime.  She would probably be a good candidate for a 2/3/4 schedule, but that is assuming 15 hours of sleep.

Any advice?  Should I temporarily push her bedtime later to adjust her body clock forward (e.g. so she gets used to waking at 7am) and then push bedtime back to 7 or 7:30pm to allow 11.5-12 hours at night?  (This is what Ferber suggests for adjusting an "early sleep phase"... even if you don't agree with his methods, I've found some of his info on sleep really helpful .  I feel like I am *really* pushing her A times to get to a later bedtime and while she can do it, it's not always pleasant. 

Bottom line: I'm just not sure how much A and S time she needs.   Any advice on figuring this out?

(Sorry for the essay.. thanks very much if you read it all