Help with EASY routine 4 month old. please.

[Jodes112]

Hi

my daughter is 4 months (17 weeks)

she has mostly been a pretty rubbish sleeper since birth (had the prefect baby with my son who slept great, is now almost 3)

i have been reading this forum for a few weeks now and have been following the easy routine. it does seem to have improved her nap lengths a little.  but i must be doing something wrong as she still wont nap for very long... here is a normal day:

wake for the day 7am

E - 7.30am 7oz
A - for 2 hours
S - 9am for 45 minutes to 1 hour (sometimes she does sleep 2 hours until nxt feed but not often)
now this is the tricky part for us, as if she only has 45 min nap, after an hour she seems tired again and if i put her down to sleep she will have another nap up until feed time (30 - 45 mins) this is what i am hoping to eliminate and would like a full long nap instead of 2 split up.#
E - 11.30 7oz
A -  usually notice tiredness after 1 hour and half
S - 1-3/3.30 (2- 2 and half hours)
E - 3.30 7oz
A - 2 hours
S - cat nap 30 mins

bedtime routine
6.30 bath
7pm 7oz bottle
bed for 7.15

sometimes her afternoon nap will be like the morning one and she will have 45 mins, then an hour later another nap until feed is due.  oh and also, most of the time she will cry for around 5-10 mins before falling asleep. this obviously didnt happen when she had dummy. she has a comforter teddy though now.

some background on night wakings - she did have a dummy but was waking every couple hours in the night so i got rid of the dummy cold turkey a couple of weeks ago.  she has been much better since except she will wake between 3-5am and be awake for around 45 mins sometimes talking and babbling sometimes crying.  i know she isnt hungry as when we do wake up for the day at 7 she isnt eager for her bottle. i often just leave her to it of she is babbling and she will drop back off.  if crying i will go in a few times and shush her she will eventually go back to sleep.

so 2 things really,  the daytime naps HELP if poss!! and also, why is she waking in the night?

thanks in advance

[Jodes112]

had a bit of an accidental breakthrough this morning with am nap.

macie had been asleep 30 mins so thought i would jump in the shower. within seconds of being in the shower i heard her crying. so i very quickly washed my bits then jumped out patted dry and by the time i had got down stairs she had stopped crying and was grumbling but had fallen back to sleep... i think she was crying for about 5 mins (which i feel bad for) but this shows she isnt ready to wake up yet.

tomorow if she wakes up after 30 mins, i will try shush pat instead of getting her up.  just thought i would share

[Ima shel Alon]

Hi there!

It's defo important not to rush too quickly when your LO is crying because often that's a way for her to self sooth. The "I need you now" cry is very clear, yk? and I would only go in when you hear that.
At 4m she should be doing something like 2h A time, so if you put her for her first nap after 1.5h then it could be that's not enough for her. I would work on slowly upping it to 2h in the morning, increasing from 1.5h by 10-15min every 3-4 days. There is good information here about A times: What are A times and how do they fit into the EASY plan?
When her naps are better during the day then I believe it will effect the night as well. At this age I would still recommending a NF, but I understand you don't want to do that... The fact she doesn't feed first thing in the morning doesn't mean she is not hungry at night. Often babies want a NF but when they are up for the day they don't like to feed straight away. But anyway, the choice is yours.
IT could be that her NW is due to UT and increasing the A times will help with that.
Oh, and BTW, at her age you are aiming for 2 full naps (1.5-2h) and the afternoon is a CN.
HTH .

[Jodes112]

Thank you for getting back to me.

Just to be clear, if she only has a 30-40 min nap do i still aim to keep her awake for 2 hours? As an hour later she is tired- yawning/whining/rubbing eyes.. She has done the same this morning. Up at 7, fed, then at 9 had 30 mins sleep.. Wide awake couldnt re settle, up for an hour and then tired. Went to sleep for another 40 minutes. This time woke up calm and coo'ing.
That morning napping throws me out.
If she stayed awake 2 hours she would wake at 9.30, feed at 11, back to sleep at 11.30 have 2 hours so wake at 1.30 & then she is looking for a cat nap around 3.30, which is too early!

Its hard. Will work on the 2 hour thing.

Thanks

[Ima shel Alon]

Don't jump straight away from 1.5h to 2h, that's too big jump for her. We suggest to do it gradually, increasing by 10-15min every 3-4 days to prevent OT. And as well, it could be that she needs 1:45h or 1:55h A time and you can only find it out if you increase A times gradually.
On days that she only CN then of course you can do 4 CN, I just meant that what you AIM for is 2 long naps and 1 CN. 15:30 would be too early for the last nap, so IIWY I would do another CN.

In the link which I gave you previously there is information how to adjust the A time after a short nap.

[Jodes112]

tried 1 hour 50 mins A for am nap and got an hour and 40 min nap....
tried 1 hour 50 mins A for pm nap and got 35 minute nap. then an hour awake & back asleep now. feed due in half an hour so assume will wake up then.


arrrrgghh wish she would just have nice naps. so frustrating.  it is the first time though that she has had a long nap in the am for a lonnng time.
so will try again tomorow. just thought i would update.

[goldmom]

Sometimes when my DD wakes early from a nap (less than 1 1/2 hours) I am able to shush pat her back to sleep (or modified with just patting and lowering her head to the bed). It takes about 5 minutes or less for her to resettle, but I can usually get at least an additional 45 minutes of nap time from this. Sometimes LO's wake early from a nap and they're just not really ready to be awake just yet. It's definitely worth a try to get her to go back to sleep immediately if she wakes up early. (Though at an earlier age than 4 months, it took a lot longer to get her back to sleep with only sometimes success, she got more consistent recently).

[Ima shel Alon]

^^^ I agree, especially with a 30min nap which usually indicates OT.

tried 1 hour 50 mins A for am nap and got an hour and 40 min nap....
tried 1 hour 50 mins A for pm nap and got 35 minute nap.

Ok, that's good. You know that 1:50h A time gives you a good nap first thing in the morning but that the second one needs to be tiny bit shorter because you got an OT nap.

[Jodes112]

Right. Thanks guys. Again 1 hour 50 a this morn and she is still asleep from 8.15. (An hour and half so far)

Will try slightly shorter a for next nap. Ahh, can just hear her chatting.

Thanks xx

[Ima shel Alon]

1.5h is great! That's the min. you are aiming for. Great job, mommy!

[Jodes112]

Thankyou. She woke up in a great mood too.

I think the thing aswell is that it hard to keep the house quiet while she naps as i have a 2 year old, who doesnt close his mouth for a second haha. This morn i close her bedroom door an the livingroom door where we were and had the monitor on so it was nice and quiet for her xx

[Jodes112]

Just an update while she is asleep, i put her to bed after 1hr 45 awake. She wasnt showing any signs of tiredness though, and was talking to hersefl for 15 minutes! She then made frustrated sleepy noises for 5 mins and after 2hr 5mins awake, she fell asleep. Right now she has been asleep 45 minutes so far. My son is dying for his nap but dont want to go up and disturb her as his bedroom is right nxt to hers. May treat him to a nap in my bed today

Xx

[Jodes112]

Well i got an hour and 40 mins when she wake i went in and he yawned as if she was still tired so i rolled her onto her tummy where she had another 10 mins (first time she has slept on her tummy since around 3 weeks old) today has been a great day for naps.

I hve a question now though, so she woke at 1.30 will probably be tired again around 3.15/3.30, if she sleeps 45 mins it will be 4.15 meaning she will be tired again by 6.15 which seems too late for a nap but too early for bed if you know what i mean. What would you reccomend to do?

Thanks xx

[Jodes112]

Sorry... Update again!

3.30pm after 2 hours awake she wa shattered. Slept for 40 mins til 4.10pm. Which left 3 hours until bed time (cringe cringe cringe)

It was not so bad, she has NEVER gone more than 2 hrs 15 mins without a nap. Started bath earlier as she was shattered 6.15, bottle around 6.40 and in bed for 6.50 (usually 7.15 - she was shattered!!!!) took a little longer than usual to settle but fell asleep at 7pm.

I just hope this long awake time wont disturb her night sleep tonight...fingers crossed.

Xx

[Ima shel Alon]

I hope you had a good night.
I wouldn't do that for too long, though, as she will accumulate OT if her last A time is so long.

And looking at your reports from yesterday I would still keep the A time at 1:50. If she needs a bit more in her cot to fall asleep that's fine, but when you kept her up for 2h then she gave you what seems like an OT nap.