NW's following 2hrly feeds for weight gain

[Fr00tbat]

Am in v similar boat -

How old is your child: 16 weeks
What’s his/her daily routine?
E-07 A-0730-0745 S-0830 40-90 mins
E-10 A-1030-1045 S-1130 40-90 mins
E-1300 A-1330 S-1430
E-1600 A-1615
E1830 A-1900 bath E-1930
S-2000.

What’s nap routine? Nappy change, grobag, book, into darkened room, in cot awake, modified shush pat if required ( no patting just hand on chest).

How long are naps? 40 minutes then he wakes and I can sometimes shush/pat back to sleep = 40-90 mins

What's bedtime routine? Time? Feed, bath, cream for eczema, feed, In bed awake 2000

Do you bottle or breastfed?? Breast feed

How much? or how long? Both sides every feed- 15-20 mins each side. Small baby so ongoing concern re weight.

How many wakes per night?
Until 14 weeks was waking at 0400-0500 feeding, sleeping to 0700. Then got a cold and stopped gaining weight- advised to feed 2hrly in day- so I did- gained weight but sleeping gone to pot!!
Awake 0000-0100- sometimes settles self, tonight required 40 minute feed as failed to settle with shushing ( escalating screaming).
Last few nights up 0230- shushed to 0300- feed- asleep to 0630/0645, shushed to 0655- nappy change and feed.

I have devoted the last 10 days to sorting out his sleep snd naps- he properly back on 3 hr EASY now - has been for a week! Have succeeded in getting him to self sooth most if time- considering 2 weeks ago he would scream if we went near the cot awake, and fed to sleep st night consider this major progress.
Am worried i am feeding habitual waking- but in view of weight i cant not feed if fails to settle with usual methods.  He wakes when i try to df- so gave up abd did modified clyster/ split feed around bath- tanking him for the night which always worked well.

?

Do they have a prop? Was me/breast- not for last 10days- and has never had a paci- always spat it out!
Do they have a lovie? no

What am I doing wrong???

[katie80]

Hi Fr00tbat, welcome to BW! First off, well done on teaching him to self settle! That's such a great accomplishment.  I don't think you're doing anything wrong, dear.  If he needs to gain weight, you need to feed him.  One rule of thumb I always use is to not feed any shorter interval during the night than I did during the day.  So, if he's back to 3 hr in the day, he can go 3 hr at night.  I would continue to feed him when he needs it until you're sure he's back on track from the cold/weight-wise and then start to push out the feeds using shh/pat.  So, when he wakes shh/pat him back to sleep, but then if he wakes again within the hour or so, feed him.  The goal being to get that later every few nights. You will also be wanting to start transitioning to a longer A time/routine.  One last thing... as I look through your routine, the last sleep you have is at 2:30 pm (I'm assuming this is done by 4) and then BT is at 8 pm.  This long A time is most likely contributing to some overtiredness, which won't help the NWs.  I would try to either add in a catnap (for 30 min or so) around 6 pm, or do bedtime at 6:30/7 pm latest.  Hope that helps!

[Fr00tbat]

Thanks for reply- so awake again here - is 0500. Effectively we are feeding 4hrly overnight from sttn 2 weeks ago.
Will try adding in a 30 min catnap 1730-1800- do i just wake him up at 30 minute mark??
The reason he goes so long (1600-2000) is because prior to his cold and sleep regression napping that late made it impossible to get him to go to sleep ( he reversed day and night so i limited him to 3x 1hr and stretched it to 3x1.5)  think we are better equipped to deal with that now so worth a shot.

[Fr00tbat]

Am worried that I am feeding him through habit, and that I will undo all the hard work of getting him to sleep without the boob- just to start again.
Im finding it hard because I was sure I knew his tired,hungry, OS cries- but at night he almost always sounds tired unless he has slept a long time then sounds clearly hungry.
Was so proud of self and him for teaching him to soothe, want to feed him as he is little and once feeding clearly hungry- put scared each time i may be making the wring call and reinforcing bad habits. :-(

[becj86]

Hi Sweetie, Just so we have some context, can you just run through the weight issue if you don't mind sharing? DS had weight gain issues too and I know the worry and don't want to advise something that is not good for him but at the same time, DS put on over a pound a week once I sorted out the BFing issues I had and was feeding less frequently.

I think realistically, he's nearly 4 months old and should probably be moving towards a 4hr EASY to help out with his day naps and his night sleep. We can help you tweak the routine so you can feed him more often that 4-hrly which a lot of EBF babies do need until they start solids, usually at around 6 months.

[Fr00tbat]

Thanks- Babybat was born with a tongue tie- which recurred 3 times and was clipped 3 times.  He lost 14% BW in first week and ended up on 9th percentile- from 50th!! He made really good gains once tongue sorted and was following around 15th percentile but every cold/ tummy bug really upsets his weight.  He got a bad cold after last set of jabs a month ago and only out on an oz in 2 weeks- advised to up feedings to 2hrly to fit in more during day as was sleeping through 2000-0400/0500 ( he is ebf and I feel v strongly that if we can manage ebf I want to continue). Was told as was sleeping thru that supply may have taken a hit which I think did appen as he wasn't feeding well with cold either.
Anyway - he put on 6oz last week and so moved him back onto 3hrly easy- which made the nap training much easier.  Had seen about moving to 4hrly but worried re weight- but if can do with extra feeds it might work well. He can manage around 1.75 awake time, maybe 2.
Will this help with our late afternoon long active spell?? 

[Fr00tbat]

And apparently we no longer do napping- all that work, aaaarrrrggghhhhhhh!!!!!

[becj86]

He can manage around 1.75 awake time, maybe 2.
Will this help with our late afternoon long active spell??

Ok, I think getting longer A times more consistently through the day for him will probably help with the long spell in the evening. and the NW's once he's getting the right A times and sleep.

What I think you could try re: feeds is to feed when he wakes and again after 30-45min playing. This way he is still going 3hr between some feeds and as you grow more confident in his weight gain and your supply, you can shrink that time between the two parts of the feed and get it to be one big feed. 

DS was born on the 25th centile and by 6 weeks was below the 3rd centile. I think your LO at least had a reason to lose weight and he'll pack it on once you get feeding down pat. Now the tongue tie and illnesses are over, things should pick up.

[Fr00tbat]

Could i bother you sketch out a potential EASY for me as struggling a bit to work it out today. Thank you for the suggestion- think is good idea.

[becj86]

7 - awake, BF
7:45/8 - topup BF
9 - nap
11 - awake, BF
11:45/12 - topup BF
1 - nap
3 - awake, BF
3:45/4 - topup BF
5 - CN (wake at 30mins)
5:30 - BF
Immediately after, start bath, bed routine incl. bedtime feed
in bed asleep by 7pm

You've got lots of feeds in there and you can still have confidence he can go 3hr between feeds. He's also got a lot of cluster feeding before bed which should enable him to get a good long stretch in at the beginning of the night. DS fed 5-6 times in 24hr at this age and I was still oversupplied. You are a different person, but I just say this to alert you to the possibility that your supply is not actually that terribly low. There's a very high likelihood that your baby is getting enough nourishment.

[katie80]

Really great advice from Bec.  I'd work on getting your day sorted first and still feed 4 hrly overnight if you need to.  I know you're a bit worried about this creating bad habits, but you do have the hard part done (self-settling, etc).  Once your day is sorted and he's getting all those feeds, my guess is that he'll start to stretch out on his own at night.  If he doesn't, then it will not be hard for you to help him along the way because he knows how to sleep independently and you've got him on a good routine.

[Fr00tbat]

That is brilliant- thankyou. He has been a little toad all day after hideous night- overtired and grumpy- did add in a catnap at 1700 today. Will start moving him accross on weekend and let u know how we are getting on.
Thankyou!!

[Fr00tbat]

He has put on 10oz in 2 weeks- thrilled!!

[becj86]

He has put on 10oz in 2 weeks- thrilled!!

WOOOHOOO!!!! Fantastic. Its so nice when they start to gain after having so much worry.

[katie80]

That's really great! Well done!!