Author Topic: Sleep and EASY Support for spirited babies  (Read 76162 times)

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Offline Scottishmummy

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Re: Sleep and EASY Support for spirited babies
« Reply #345 on: July 08, 2013, 19:35:42 pm »
Really struggling! Am posting my attempts to get EASY for our spirited DS on main EASY board but am finding it v hard to get things right for him & worried I'm failing him cos I can't get his A times or activities right & he's often OS or OT or both & not getting enough sleep. The older he gets & the more he develops & interacts with the world, the worse his sleep gets.  Worrying  about doing him some permanent damage - is that possible?
"Touchy/Spirited" DS


"Textbook" DD



Offline :: ANA ::

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Re: Sleep and EASY Support for spirited babies
« Reply #346 on: July 09, 2013, 00:07:55 am »
Hi Scottishmummy,
I'm pretty sure you can't do permanent damage for missing some of your baby's tired/OS cues...

It takes time to get to know them and decipher their communication but I'm sure you're doing fine and will do even better with time...
In our case, at 3 months we were barely beginning to see some resemblance of a routine coming for us in the future; they're still so young at 3mo and need to feel you close a lot! Try not to worry so much, spend time observing him, trying to "read" what he's trying to "tell" you... 

Listen to the advice you get but most of all listen to your intuition! You'll find so much knowledge already there in your mommy heart  ;)

If you think it'll help, you can keep a journal where you log your LO's sleep time every day and make notes on the kind of day/activities he had, hopefully you'll find some sort of pattern that points towards the thing that might be messing with his sleep.

HTH!
Ana








Offline Hellomama

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Re: Sleep and EASY Support for spirited babies
« Reply #347 on: August 09, 2013, 23:51:45 pm »
Hi everyone, newbie here and first post. Ive been trying to read older posts and find a situation similar so i dont repeat the same questions but nearly 2 months later im just going to write a post anyway. I wasn't sure where to post but seeing as my son is spirited I thought I would start here. Looks like his thread hasn't been active for a while but I can vent even if no one is listening.

My son is 24 weeks, 5.5 months. Since he was born we rocked him as nothing else would settle his screaming. We then found out he had reflux and has been on medication since 5 weeks. His reflux is under control with no signs of discomfort when spitting up and his cot mattress is elevated though he sleeps fine lying flat on his back when in bed with me. Since 18 weeks it seems things have greatly gone down hill.

We are on a 4 hour EASY. No night feed and he has purée with his losec morning and night (any benefit to rice cereal? I read its full of sugar and empty calories). He is extremely heavy, maybe 11kg now. I'm concerned but his doc, paed and health nurse don't think it's an issue. Should I be concerned? It's hard to rock him to sleep as he is so heavy. Tummy time and sitting is also going slow as his big gut is in the way and with his reflux he doesn't like it.

He has never slept thru the night. He use to sleep well, I would rock him to sleep, put him in his cot, wake at 4:30am to feed then wake 5:30, 6:30, 7:00 (so I would hold him to sleep usually after 5:30 wake up). This probably isn't really what you call "sleeps well" but compared to now it was). He has never self settled. Nothing has worked, if he wakes at night I rock him until he is completely asleep. Ssh pat and pupd doesn't work, it just makes him scream, and boy does he scream. I really want to address this issue somehow but I am at a loss. I even try to rock him less and he would just open his eyes and look around as soon as I stop. Even holding him while sitting and patting his bum isn't an option as he screams. The issue now is he wakes 10-15 mins after I put him down to bed at night or sometimes 30m (overtired?), 45m (undertired?) and sometimes after 1hr or so (in other words at random times). I now take him to my bed after about 2 wake ups as I can now only put him in his cot once he is in deep sleep but in bed I can lie there and pat his bum til he reaches deep sleep or when he stirs. I have no idea what to do and he seems overtired all the time.

I always have to hold him for naps. He can't transition to the next sleep cycle during the day. But now even when I hold him he stirs or wakes at random times. He use to sleep 1.5hrs twice then one catnap (but always was fussy and grumpy). Now he sleeps about 30m in the morning, 1.5-3hrs at noon (I let him sleep as he is so tired), then 30m in the evening. How much sleep should he be getting? His awake time is about 2hr15m-2hr30m. Should he have the same awake time in the AM (i tried shorter but no change) and before bed (he cries at bedtime and goes over his normal awake time)? Is it ok for him to catnap after 4pm? He gets cranky so fast. At 1.5hrs of awake time he is cranky. Nothing keeps him happy, I constantly have to move around or do something to keep him from crying and each new attempt only lasts for a few minutes at most.

We have a very short wind down and he doesn't like the paci, well he does but it doesn't help him sleep, only settles him if he is screaming in the car, else he just chews or plays with it. I know he is probably teething, his tooth came up but disappeared at 15 weeks. But I'm sure there must be something I can do.  He started grunting recently too (teething?) and I'm sure I should be moving to 2 naps now but I'm just lost, tired, stressed, anxious, angry, falling apart, and scared, scared I'm not cut out for this and that it won't get better coz that's all I've been hearing (from people with angel babies) but it hasn't happened yet.

Sorry for my rant for anyone that stumbles across this.

Offline AMJ

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Re: Sleep and EASY Support for spirited babies
« Reply #348 on: August 16, 2013, 16:40:44 pm »
Hello everyone! I have a spirited LO as well. I find it hard at times to deal with her. When we finally got her on what was more like AESY she seemed happier and better rested ( used to take 30 min naps before) but not 2-3 wells into the routine ( she is just over 4 months) she act so differently. It's harder to put her to sleep ( she used to pass out 2-3 mins after I placed her in the crib) and she just started making very weirded noises almost squirching noises and gets all jittery and looks OT but we didnt change anything on the routine. And won't go down for S earlier either.



Offline TB9

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Re: Sleep and EASY Support for spirited babies
« Reply #349 on: August 16, 2013, 19:12:18 pm »
Lots of hugs ladies, spirited babies are a big challenge, I have two of them  ;)  But trust me when I say, being the parent of a spirited is the most rewarding experience  ;D  I dont have time to post much now, but I will be back, I promise!

Offline AMJ

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Re: Sleep and EASY Support for spirited babies
« Reply #350 on: August 16, 2013, 19:23:37 pm »
Hellomama!
I hear you! We are not that bad as you LO but I hope you can find the strength to do your best!!



Offline TB9

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Re: Sleep and EASY Support for spirited babies
« Reply #351 on: August 16, 2013, 19:50:05 pm »
Hellomama - Yes, both my spiriteds screamed quite a bit while I was sleep training, I learned my lesson and bought earplugs for when I sleep trained dd2!  I found that the key to sleep training a spirited baby is getting the A time right.  Dd2 is 5months old, and is in the process of dropping the cn, so some days we get two good naps and other days we get 1 good nap and 2 bad naps :(  I suspect you are probably in the same phase with your LO.

Spirited babies tend to need higher than the average A times, so right now dd2 is doing 2-2.5hrs between naps, and up to 3hrs before bed if she only has 2 naps.  There are no rules for how LOs like their A times to differ throughout the day.  Dd1 liked increasing A over the day, and I thjnk dd2 is the same, but some babies like higher A in the am and shorter right before bed.

Dd2 also likes short wind down :)  And she puts up a royal fuss as soon as I go into her room around nap time, lol.  I think a lot odf spirited babies like a shorter wind down.

Have you read anything on gradual withdrawl?  I never used it myself to sleep train, but im sure you coukd get some help from other people who hae had success with it.  I used pu/pd with dd1, but if you think your LO is getting too upset and want to use a more gentle method then I think gw is probably the way to go.

Yikes!  Gotta go ladies, dd2 just woke up after a 45min nap :(  oh well, tomorrow is another day to try for a good pm nap ;)
Hugs all around  :-*

Offline Hellomama

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Re: Sleep and EASY Support for spirited babies
« Reply #352 on: August 17, 2013, 01:01:23 am »
Thx AllaMJ I try everyday to keep positive and stay strong but its so hard.

Tinkerbell99 you have TWO spirited ones???? How do you do it? I can't handle it, he screams at everything! If I don't feed him fast enough, if I put him down to go to the bathroom, if he can't see me! When I'm out I'm so nervous coz he screams so loud everyone looks at me. I know I have to let go and just ignore other people's reactions but it doesn't help I haven't had sleep either. How do you make the difference between giving into his screams and letting him scream when he is misbehaving or just wanting his way? I don't want to let him "get away with" demanding things but once he starts he becomes hysterical. I know his pain cry but his other cries (hunger/tired/bored) seem the same. His cues are hard to read and I have to go by the clock for sleep and feeds. Only once I start rocking him does he yawn and he shows hunger signs all the time and I know he isn't hungry!

How did you sleep train with the pupd method? My LOs sleep window is so small that whatever method I try will result in screams and an OT baby, so maybe if you explained the way you did it I could apply it to the GW method. I have already tried but it hasn't worked coz his eyes pop open when I stop rocking and I have to start again and then he becomes harder to settle. When my LO is asleep and he stirs and starts eating his hands it's all over! It doesn't settle him it wakes him up! Does anyone else's LO do that?

I've got my LO on a 3hr A time starting today and yes I'm also working on the 2-3 naps and getting a really OT baby. Do you let your LO sleep past 4pm, does this affect their night sleep. My LO is waking at 5am to play now. I hope once his naps are better he stops waking so much at night. When you say sleep training comes down with getting the A time right is that because of the sleep window?

Thanks!!!!


Offline AMJ

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Re: Sleep and EASY Support for spirited babies
« Reply #353 on: August 17, 2013, 07:56:15 am »
My LO gets very distracted by her hands and as soon as she startssucking them she is up crying. That's why we still swaddle. Going to try this product I ordered caked Zipadee-Zip wich supposed to help her transition from being swaddled to sleep unswaddled.



Offline TB9

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Re: Sleep and EASY Support for spirited babies
« Reply #354 on: August 18, 2013, 02:32:47 am »
Hellomama - Lol, having 2 spiriteds is tough, but when you learn how to deal with one any others after that are easier ;)  Quite often you just have to give up control, like with eating dd1 learned at a VERY young age learned how to feed herself with a spoon.  It all started when she would get angry with me for not feeding her quickly enough, so I started putting a spoon loaded with purees on her tray, before I knknewit she had learned how to use a spoon :)  There is a support thread for parents of spirited LOs if you are interested in chatting or if you have questions with making some of the day to day things easier Raising the spirited child 0-4 years thread 2

To sleep train dd2 I would do her wind down, say her sleepy phrase, and put her into her crib.  If she got upset I would pick her up and do shh/pat with her upright on my shoulder, OR if she wasnt too upset I could get away with just touching her face and sayjng "shhh".  If I had to pick her up I would give her a chance to calm down then put her back into her crib.  I would also put her back in if she was trying to put her self to sleep (she tends to grab her hair to soothe herself so that was a cue to me that she was trying to do it on her own).  Actually standing there just patting her really helped me identify her mantra cry so that I knew not to interrupt it, and also identify her sleepy cues like grabbing her hair or pushing herself backwards.  Here is my old thread that I started when I needed to sleep train dd2 Just over 3 months old.  Can I use pu/pd?  Have a read through, Im sure you could post on the pu/pd board as well and you could get some help developing you own sleep training plan...I dont think shhh/pat is the best option at this age, but another way to calm your LO (like touching my dds face) may work so that you avoid too much pu/pd ???

I think at this age 3hrs A all day may be too much.  I think the only reason my dd can handle it some days is because its rightbefore her long night sleep!

Offline Cogray

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Re: Sleep and EASY Support for spirited babies
« Reply #355 on: August 18, 2013, 17:57:31 pm »
Hello Ladies~  It has been quite  awhile since I posted which probably means things were going very well.  Last time I touched base I was looking into a cd that would mock the sound of an actual blow dryer sound to help my LO sleep without the high risk of the actual blow dryer he loved.  Found one and have used it successfully since he was 7 months. Clockwork naps of 1 and half each morning and afternoon. I never thought I'd get there.  Of course, I do worry about his hearing. It is so darn loud in there.  If I lower it or shut is off repeat, he wakes.

Of course, now that he is 11 months, we are experiencing change.  His A time was about 3-3.5 hours and nap for 1.5, but he seems to be transitioning to 1 nap but can't quite get there.  I will have to visit that board.  We are also dealing with massive teething - molars.  With the change in his schedule, NW have become more frequent and it seems everyday and night is different. He is such the spirited one, he does not seem to want to stop.  A new battle seems to have begun.  Hmmm.  Hope to find some answers soon but wanted to reach out to you all who have children with the same dispositions to see how things went for you during this time.

Thanks!!!

Also, what about BF.  My LO seems to still be quite attached to nursing.  With my daughter at this age, she was mostly finished apart from BT.  He is an acrobatic nurser as well as times.  Anyone experience this?







Offline Hellomama

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Re: Sleep and EASY Support for spirited babies
« Reply #356 on: September 06, 2013, 00:36:44 am »
Hi AllaMJ thanks for the zipadee idea, I've never seen that one before but my DS would still eat his hands til the zipadee is drenched and soaking and I would have to change it. I've gone back to swaddling with the ergo which restricts his hands a bit as he hasn't yet mastered rolling over.

Hi Tinkerbell99 thank you for the links! Since my last post I've been a ssh/pat machine! Rocking is no longer! I never thought this would be possible with my spirited ds! And just as I started to feel confident I think at now 28 weeks he is going thru a sleep regression (not that he ever slept well) And now rocking and co sleeping (2 nights in a row so far, the first night it took 2hrs to rock him to sleep!). With the NW I would ssh pat and before I'm done he wakes up again or he will wake a few mins after I've left (even though he has been sleeping for a while with me still patting or with my hand on his bum) and this will continue all night long. Do I ride it out or is my day to blame? I'm struggling with his day naps as I can't seem to get it right. His first A time is 2hrs and the rest are 2.5hrs but no matter what there always seems to be a catnap that I have to fit in so that he will make it to bedtime, usu catnap falls past 16:00, but i stop his naps so its no later than 16:30 (is this too late). Do I need to increase his A time to get rid of the catnap? Or do I leave the catnap. Yesterday (maybe this was the problem) he was tired 1hr after waking (after 1hr35m nap) and I put him down but he only slept for about 25m. Pls let me know if you have any ideas! Thanks!



Offline Hellomama

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Re: Sleep and EASY Support for spirited babies
« Reply #357 on: September 06, 2013, 12:03:10 pm »
Just an update. Today DS napped great but I'm not sure if this has ruined his night? I'm def not complaining bout his day nap which is usu not very good, but I can't seem to figure out what it is that is affecting his nw. Pls let me know if I should post this somewhere else, I'm still finding my way around the forum.
W 06:00
A 2hr (is this too short? And should i slowly push it to 2.5hr?)
S 2.5hr (is this too long I was thinking he could set his own sleep pattern? Plus maybe tired from a bad night?)
A 2.5hr
S 1hr (he woke happy but playing with his ear and then rubbing his eyes soon after)
A 3hr (he was struggling but should I have cn and pushed bt later?)
S 18:10 (20m)
And now this is where I am, DS won't settle, I'm ssh patting him but if he falls asleep he wakes a few mins later. This use to start at 1am, then at midnight, then at 23:00, then last night at 22:00 and now straight away. I think I might have to co sleep again tonight, I feel like I'm slowly throwing away my weeks of sleep training, even though he was having lots of nw at least he would settle for a couple hours at a time.

Offline TB9

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Re: Sleep and EASY Support for spirited babies
« Reply #358 on: September 06, 2013, 15:19:42 pm »
It looks like his last A is possibly too long.  So he is having ot wakeups  ???  I would post your EASY routine in the EASY forum (its in the activity section on the main page) or in the night waking forum (in the sleep section of the main page) and include all the Es as well so everyone can see the whole picture :)

Offline Hellomama

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Re: Sleep and EASY Support for spirited babies
« Reply #359 on: September 06, 2013, 23:38:04 pm »
Ok thank you. I will get my days written down and come back soon.