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EAT => Breast Feeding => Topic started by: JennVanessa1083 on February 01, 2016, 11:15:42 am
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Hello I'm back! :)
My very near 8 month old is still nursing 3 times a night. He eats about 5 milk feeds a day (including a top up before BT) as well as two solid meals a day (breakfast and lunch). I'm about to increase to 3 meals a day to see if that helps the NF.
The following is a rough feeding routine:
7:30 BF
9 am Solids
12 pm BF
1:30 Solids
4ish BF
7:30 (top up BF)
Then he usually wakes around 4 hours later, then 3 hours, then 3 hours again! I try to resettle but it barely works. He gets upset until I nurse then he takes a full feed. We do cosleep which I'm wondering if this is the issue. He can self settle bc I have personally seen him do it in the middle of the night while I pretend to be asleep.
Any advice or thoughts? I wouldn't mind dropping just one feed (preferably 2) but I don't want to deprive him of he's really hungry.
Thank you!
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I managed to drop a NF or two by offering BF or EBM in a bottle (he took more that way than with a cup) with solids as a drink.
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Hi Bec!
You are now helping me on two threads ;D
Anyways, I thought about doing that but am also nervous about creating a snacking habit. Also DS never took a bottle no matter how hard I tried. Should I BF then right after a solids meal? Should I just offer one breast or both if we takes it?
I would LOVE to drop even just one NF!
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I weaned my DS off night feeds at about the same age and he was similar to your LO eating & feeding well in the day but upset & not resettling if not getting milk at night.
I did one feed at a time, starting with the one I found most disruptive to my sleep (for me it was the 10/11pm but lots of people start with middle of night feed).
I think I first started just offering one side for as long as he wanted but only one side.
Then I timed how long he fed for on a digital clock by the bed, then gradually took him off a minute earlier every couple of nights.
So night 1&2 10min feed; night 3&4 9mins ; night 5&6 8 mins etc. When we got to 2-3 min feeds he stopped waking for them or would resettle without milk. After he had gone without it, if he woke at that time again I never offered milk & would resettle with shh-ing.
When the 10pm feed was gone, I then repeated for 2am feed & finally 5am feed. It took a couple of months until he was STTN but worked with least possible stress for me & him.
HTH
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Thanks Scottishmummy!
That is definitely helpful ☺️ I can try upping his daytime feeds and actively eliminating his night feeds.
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So are you wanting to continue co-sleeping but not feeding at night? Do you co-sleep for naps too? Just wondering if he has any independent sleeping experience.
I've heard of some mamas wearing heavy clothing to help stop LOs helping themselves to the breast and to help dull the smell of milk.
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Hi Ali!
I can definitely try heavy clothing to see if it makes a difference.
He naps in his crib and knows how to settle himself as long as I'm in the room. I didn't plan to co sleep this long quite honestly so I hope to transition soon. Frankly, I'm anxious about the transition so have been procrastinating it :-X
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I'd probably do it both at the same time then. I think it is hard to teach LO not to wake for feeds when he is sleeping right next to them!
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Both? As in wear heavy clothing and upping his daytime feeds with solids?
Yea I have read and heard that co sleeping can lead to more NF since they can smell the milk more.
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I think Ali meant the transition to sleeping in the crib at night - ie. wean the NFs and the co-sleeping at the same time :)
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Yes, sorry. I meant transition to the cot and reduce the night feeds at the same time.
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Ok I'll have to make a plan with DH
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It will definitely be easier if DH can handle resettling on the WU you don't want to feed for!
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That's hard bc it's so late at night sometimes really early when he's leaving for work.
These are the times he eats at night:
Midnight
2-4 am
Then he wants to eat at like 5-6!- that's the one I want to push back to wake up time. It's part of his recent long EMW that I'm working through on another board. The thing is I'll try to resettle for an hour and then give up at nurse.
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Well if you absolutely can't resettle, I would wonder if he's really hungry. Does he take a good feed at these times?
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I'm pretty sure he does...he drains both breasts then comes off and wants to be put down. The 5-6 am feed is hard because he's very restless in those hours which seems to be the first A in need of increasing (which I'm working with another mod on this).
I'll admit that I haven't fully instilled a third solids meal for him...could that be contributing?
I also don't do top up BM with solids, I give water.
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I started offering top ups with the solids yesterday. I managed to only feed him twice which is much better. I am wondering if it's ok to breastfeed the top up or if I should pump it into his sippy (he doesn't take a bottle)? This is all keeping in mind that around 12 months I plan on weaning him to milk instead.
Do I up his solids since he still takes both breasts with the solids?
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So how did the day look overall then? Do you mean two feeds in the day or at night? Bear in mind that you shouldn't be aiming to drop day feeds, but night feeds ;)
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Oops! Sorry! I meant NF. Last night he only woke up twice to feed which hasn't been that way for a number of weeks.
During the day he usually gets 4 milk feeds with a top up at BT and two solid meals a day. However yesterday I did one more top up after solids in the afternoon.
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Is he taking both sides at each daytime feed? We didn't drop the DF in fact until about 9mos, I think for both LOs (bit hazy) so perhaps that is playing against you (don't think you're DFing?). Counted that way, they were both still having one NF at this stage!
It could be a coincidence that he only did two NFs after you added in a top-up, but I would stick with that and with the strategy of trying to increase his daytime intake of milk. Clearly he's keen to have the milk, and he's young to be relying on solids for nutrition.
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Ok yes I wasn't sure in regards to his age and solids being that nutritious for him. I am ok with NF as long as it doesn't exceed 2. I figure when his dinner is established he may drop down to 1 NF.
Yes he does take both breasts at each feed. I never did a DF and figured it was too late to start. Last night he fed at 1 am then at 5:30 am from both breasts.
I can continue to nurse him right after his afternoon meal. Tonight I was going to try for dinner but I also don't want it to affect his BT feed but maybe that's ok?
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I'd definitely give dinner a shot :) a lot of it is in the timing, he may not want to eat much (solids) at that time of the day but it is worth giving him the opportunity. 1am and 5.30am is not bad at all!
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Thank you! I will definitely give it a try and hope that it continues to improve :D
I'll keep you all posted!
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Hi ladies!
I am wondering if two NF is still normal for an almost 8.5 month old. I introduced dinner and have been doing it consistently for the last couple of nights. Should I try topping him off after solids or just upping his solid intake? He's very active especially since he's crawling everywhere and consistently pulling up and standing. It seems like I can't keep up with his caloric need! What's the normal solid intake at this age?
He easily ate 3 oz pouch and was wanting more. I feel as though I have no idea how to increase solids without it interfering with milk feeds. Thoughts?
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There is such variation in solids intake at this age. Some hardly eat anything and some eat loads. Most babies will be on 3 meals of solid food by now. Most LOs are probably on 4-6 BFs with at least one of those being a DF or NF for the majority of babies.
I'd also look at what you are offering as solids. I'd offer a balance of good fats, protein, complex carbs and lots of veg and some fruit. Then I'd offer milk at least 4 times in the day away from solids plus any top ups and 1-2 NFs if he wakes for them. His intake will completely change from now to 1yo so there is plenty of time to move from mostly milk to mostly solids.
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Ok I can definitely try that.
What's strange is that he was going 4-5 hours after BT without a feed and the last 2-3 nights he's waking up after 2-3 hours. My husband will resettle and then he wakes up again an hour later wanting to feed. Is this normal?
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What is the situation with the co-sleeping and independent sleeping now?
If he is still used to you always being there when he falls asleep and wakes in the night then it's to be expected that he looks for you each time he stirs.
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Nothing has changed in that department so I assume I will have to sleep train if this keeps up.
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Yes, I agree it is a prop issue rather than pure hunger.
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So am I the prop of nursing the prop?
Do I handle this with gradual removal?
I don't feed unless it's been 4 hours. Is that enough?
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Yes I would say you are the prop and nursing is the prop. He is used to you being there co-sleeping and having constant access to the breast whenever he wakes.
I would look at putting him in his own bed to sleep after he falls asleep on the boob Then work on getting him in bed a little more awake each time with a view to putting him down awake so he learns to go to sleep in the cot without the breast. So yes a kind of gradual withdrawal.
Or the other option is to go straight to putting him the cot awake after your wind down and to then do PUPD. That would involve more crying and be harder on both of you seeing as he has had so much contact at night up until now. It might yield quicker results though so it depends how quickly you want better sleep versus how easy you want this to be on your LO. I'd go for the GW.
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I can definitely work on the gradual withdrawal as his sleep isn't horrendous so I don't mind doing it gradually. Plus he self soothes for naps in the crib so I really just need to transfer it to bedtime. I know he's capable as I have seen him put himself back to sleep before.
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FX. Let us know how it goes.
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Will do when DS is feeling better. ;) He caught a bug and has been ill since yesterday so for now just going with the flow and following cues.
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I just wanted to pop in and say you're not alone. Wet just wenT through some similar stuff with our almost 9.5 month old. Keep in mind there is a sleep regression around 8 month. I was trying to adjust things and his night wakings went crazy. They went back to normal after 2 weeks. We are now dropping night feeds. I'm choosing the feed and nurse for a minute less every few nights. He's doing great. I've accepted the 5am feed will be the last to go.
We also offer a bottle (or sippy cup) of ebm frequently throughout the day, with solids, in between feeds. My first was a major snacker, so are myself and husband, so I don't mind I'd I created a snacking habit! I try to pound the calories into him. Last night was our first night ever he slept through some feeds, woke at 5, feed, and asleep again until 7:30. I hope I can repeat this!!
You'll get there too. It's not quick unfortunately but you'll make it.
Anyways, just wanted to offer my support as we are in very similar boats! Goodluck
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Thank you so much Baby_Mama!!
I truly appreciate the encouragement as sometimes it can feel daunting. I like the gradual approach that you and another mama mentioned on here about gradually reducing the time of nursing. We are definitely at two night feeds. The first is about 4 hours after bedtime then we have a middle of the night feed that ranges in when it is. He takes full feeds and goes back to sleep.
I think we are experiencing a bit of a regression so I'm trying to stay patient as I know it isn't easy for them. He's also learning a lot of new tricks like standing and cruising as well as sitting up alone. Needless to say he is very active! I'm steadily increasing solids. I will offer more BM though. Do you pump for the sippy cups? When is ideal so that DS can still get a good feed. I thought about giving him formula with solids as well. Right now I give water or another top up if it seeks he wasn't as interested in solids.
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We had very similar feeds, one around 12 and 3-4, since gradually reducing, I got down to 5 minutes at the 12 and he started sleeping through that one. But I fear nite now after things seem to be going well that his sister is sick which will soon mean him too, and I can tell a tooth is in our near future, so who knows!!
I do pump for the bottle/sippy cup. I have a pretty good freezer stash at the moment but I have also been cursed and blessed (yes both!) with a milk oversupply so I am able to easily pump large amounts after bed in the evening or when he's napping (feeds only 1 side before nap). Saying that, my freezer stash is getting smaller and I plan on either introducing formula or coconut milk (slight dairy sensitivity) for his bottle/sippy cup feeds depending on how close to 12 months we make it!
I hope this helps. It's hard, my first dropped all night feeds herself at 6 months and slept straight through, so this whole process is very new to me!
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It definitely helps especially since it sounds like our LOs have the same eating habits!
I think because I don't have an oversupply I'll try to introduce formula in a cup. I don't mind breastfeeding again; however, I am looking to wean around 12 months so this may be a good time to get him used to drinking more out of a cup. ;)
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Question: my DS has a cold; no fever but still has a bad cough (for about 5 days now), did you find that your LOs wanted to nurse more. He's not eating as much solids and nursing more. We were on 2 night but picked up a third NF again. Should I just let him since maybe he's not getting enough in the day in terms of calories? When he rejects solids, I nurse him again but when he eats a little bit I don't. I want to work on dropping night feeds but also don't want to neglect him if he's really hungry.
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If he's ill, i would go ahead and feed him, with a cough, his throat might be dry, there are a zillion reasons a feed overnight might be needed with a cold. Actually, I found BFing really helped us through teething :) because it was so soothing for them.
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Same here! Basically anytime he has felt poorly either by cold or teething...nursing is his go to magic key :)
ok then! I can work on reducing feeds when that cough is gone. When should I call the doctor again? His cough is very phelgm filled and he sometimes gags from it. I already had him checked out when he first got sick. But I'm wondering at what point should I be concerned about his cough and cold?
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Yes I'd definitely allow more feeds during illness. I hope he feels better soon.
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Thank you! I'm sure I'll be back for support should I need help night weaning :)
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Hi ladies: I was wondering have your Los ever picked up a morning feed only to wake up an hour later? DS will do this between 5-6:30 but be up by around 7-7:30. I feed since he has a cold then I wait a little and feed again. It does throw his feeding times off a bit...just wondering if you have experienced this how did you handle it?
Thank you again!
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Yes, all of mine did this ew for a BF and then back to sleep for 1.5 hrs or so. I either offered a top up feed at morning wu or, as they got older, I just went straight to breakfast.
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I have found that add I'm reducing the night feeds, we're getting a 5ish wake and feed, back to sleep for a bit. I've taken the approach that I'll make that the last to go and ask aiming on trying to get him to sleep right through until then. Once we have that down, I'll try to get rid of that one.
We also have a cold and 4 teeth coming...It was nice to read your question and answers about nursing during illness because I was wondering the same thing last night. :)
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That sounds good Ali. I was wondering whether to go straight into breakfast but opted to feed first bc I wasn't sure if it would be a good idea. At what age is considered "old enough" to go straight into breakfast? My DS is 8.5 months.
Baby_Mama- glad my thread can shine some light. This is why I love this sight. All the mothers help each other bc they have been there or are currently going through it. I love your approach by the way in reducing NF. How is it going? I hope your DS feels better soon!
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If he is happy to feed again on wu I'd keep offering that for now as it is better to have the calories in the day. Once you start getting A times that are longer and require more than one BF in that first A time then I'd probably move to solids on wake up if he has just fed an hour before or so.
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He was until today ??? I had to wait a half hour to feed bc he didn't want it. His first A is 3.5; not sure if that makes a difference in whether I should start off with breakfast or another feed.
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I hope you're winning JennVanessa. We have some good days and bad days. A good night, he sleeps until 4, feeds only 5 min and is back down until 6:30 or 7. Bad days, he's up at 3, feeds, then up at 5, I sit rocking and nursing until 6:30 or so because I'm determined to not have our day start at 5. I can usually get some snoozing in doing that...for both him and I! I'm not pushing too hard for much better at the moment because he's had the cold and lots of teeth making a move.
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I'd keep offering for now since he is still young and you want milk first really as it's his main source of nutrition.
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Ok Ali! I'll keep offering. I was wondering if I should continue to give milk right after solids or wait 15 minutes afterwards? I noticed that his pm nap shortens and he is ravaged with hunger. I'm wondering if it could be hunger waking him up despite my best efforts to get him full at lunch.
I feel the same way Baby Mama!
My DS is still nursing a cold so I'm definitely allowing him to nurse more. I also saw that his top two teeth are moving down and he has a little bit of swollen gums. So looks like we may be back at it with teething :o
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Are you not offering milk before solids then?
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Yes I am nursing before solids. It could be teething related? Top gums are swollen and teeth are have moved down.
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Teething can definitely affect BFing yes.
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It definitely is! The last two days he has been notably uncomfortable from his gums. They actually looks like they are about to cut. Poor baby. He wants to nurse a lot more. He's still eating solids but not as much. He's still waking up to eat 3 times. I guess I should wait until afterwards to work on reducing feeds?
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Yes, I would.
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Just want to throw in my support again. My little guy has 1 tooth just broke, another breaking, one right behind. I decided to take a break and just survive this. Aye reading the input of the previous poster, I feel reassured.
I totally feel your pain...and little ones! Big hugs to you :)
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Thanks ladies! I appreciate the support.
He's not cutting yet but they are right there. I guess I'm concerned at the fact he still feeds 3 times when we had dropped down to two then all of a sudden about a week or more ago he picked up a third. I guess it's the teething maybe even a growth spurt considering he just turned 9 months today.
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Development is not a linear process. There will be small steps and regressions as well as big leaps with all developmental milestones including sleeping through the night. Hang in there.
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Thanks Ali!!! That's actually very reassuring right now as I can sometimes feel like I'm losing it!!