NF Vs First feed on 4hr

[3littlemen]

We've finally made it to 4hr easy, and we're doing good (the last feed isn't quite 4hr some days but not important). Now we're got to 1 nf around 3-3.30-4am. Only thing is then we're not hungry at 6 Wu. We're bfing and I've tried one side both sides, dummying (not overly successful). He's just not hungry (or is too busy looking at everything).  I had started doing the stay at home for a fortnight and setting the routine 2hours up, 2hrs down etc which has worked a treat til now. He has stopped feeding to sleep at 6pm now and is awake until almost 7, despite a 5.20/5.40am wakeup. His newfound movement requires more help at bedtime to settle, not for naps.

So I'm thinking (or I have done yesterday and today) to feed when he's hungry which should be about 7not 6, and then have 4hr from then (7,11,3,7 etc rather than 6,10,2,6).I just wonder if I should move the whole days feeds out, or just the first. ie 7 then 10.45 then 2.30 then 6.

What do you think? It seems silly to complain about basically nothing... but we've finally got something working!

[creations]

Sorry I don't have any BTDT experience to help you with this but hopefully someone will be along who does
How old is your LO now?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

What about trying to offer less at the nf? Either timewise or by offering one side? I could see where if he feeds at 3:30/4 he would not be ready for a full feed at 6...no df?

We have a pretty fluid easy due to high A times so I just feed on demand really which is more like 3.5 hours, sometimes 2-3 later n the day. Could he possibly need a wee bit more A time if he is having trouble settling for naps?

[3littlemen]

he is 17wks.
last night he had a few nw after his 9.40pm df (I usually df 9-9.30) he then woke at 4.30 but was talking to himself so I let him be. he started to cry/get grizzly at 5.20 which could have been tired or hungfry but I fed him anyway.... he's been awake since 4.30 (it's now 6.20, usual get out of bed time is 6) so today will be fun...

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Hmm at his age if he is wanting to feed eventually anyways I would probably feed at that nw and push the first day feed a bit later...more EAES as soon enough that nf will push forward and become the morning feed if that makes sense.

[3littlemen]

righto, that's what I thought I might do.... he seems to end up more unsettled at night if his day feeds are close (ie 3-3.5hr) but the bigger gap, the more he drinks the less nw

[3littlemen]

I'm just wondering if you could help explain something... how does Easy work when the day doesn't go to plan say with an EW or an early wakeup UT/OT nap?

If he wakes early, say at 5.20 and he won't resettle, then he's ready for his sleep 40m earlier right? SO do you put him to bed then or at the time he should have gone to sleep eg 6am so 8am down for nap...
same with early wakeups when you can't resettle, I know you go for shortened a time, but why then does Tracy suggest when starting EASY to do set times... what's the point behind that if we just end up watching cues?

[creations]

It can sound a little confusing because each situation is different and EASY is an individual routine for that LO/family rather than a one-size-fits-all schedule.
Starting with set times (or indeed using them as a tool at any time) is often very hard work for parents and can make LO extremely OT which we usually try to avoid but in certain cases where there has been no routine at all, where baby is not sleeping well day or night etc then the OT can work to our advantage as baby eventually falls to sleep and starts to get on track sleeping at the 'right' times. It's useful for teaching baby when and for how long they should nap and when their night sleep begins and ends.
However for many situations most of us try to go a bit of an easier route, gentler on the parents as well as baby, by observing the routine baby is in already (including short naps, EW, NW etc) and working from there with smaller changes until a regular (individual) routine is established.
For instance EW can be caused by OT and looking at the previous days routine can help to see where tweaks could be made to help reduce or eliminate EWs.  If baby is OT then counting the A from the time they woke that day will help to avoid any further OT, too long an A and the first nap will be short/disturbed due to OT, baby gets less sleep and the whole day ends up in an OT spiral.  However EWs can also be caused by the first nap coming too early so if it was a long term problem you'd want to extend the first A to discourage EW. Clear as mud?

[3littlemen]

oh ha hum... and a bottle of rum!

I just get a little frustrated with it all - it seems I've been trying to get him on easy forever and then when I did get good naps he would stay awake and party all night... devil and the deep blue sea stuff that.

We're doing well with the longer spaced feeds (he seems to be hungry at those times anyway) but naps are still a blinder... I suppose I'm back to watching for cues and writing everything down...

I understand the OT thing and making set naps work. back to the drawing board... thanks for replying

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

We only get good nights with super high A times...she is low sleep needs and is now maxing out at 11 hr night and less than 3 hours of naps. Do you think a 2 hr A time is enough? How is he settling for naps? You mentioned his bedtime is later...maybe if that A time difference were spread throughout the day!

[3littlemen]

Well that's what I was wondering... too much sleep gave us party nights and not enough will give us wake ups and ews..today I did better and went on cues and surprisingly he wasn't too far off what I had set
a 5.45?
e6 (little)
s 8-8.15, 9.15-10.20 (in at 7.50
e10.25
s12.05-12.35dummy-1.20(in at 12)
e2
s3.15-3.50stirred only-4.10 (in at 3.10)
 e5.55 passed out......no fighting!! oops, now stirring....
.
so that to me looks downright delightful.. apart from the shonky first nap, they were pretty good I think, and bed time was much easier... definitely must have been ot the last few days!!

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Does look pretty good - fx the night is good too!

[3littlemen]

Short lived that theory,...
we had lots of wu before df, wide awake at df, then nf at 3am.
we got an ew at 4.30 that I am not sure he went back to sleep and if he did it was until 5.30...
a5.30
e6
s7.29-8.18
e9
s10.50-11.25
e11.55
s1.10-2.20
e3.10

all good feeds, seems hungry today...do those first naps look ut to you?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Hmmm not necessarily with an unsettled night...4 month growth spurt maybe? Esp if he seems more hungry.