Always 30 - 40min naps

[mrswalsh]

My son is 13 weeks old, he has been sleeping in his own crib from 2 weeks and goes down at 7pm very easily.  I dream feed at 10.30 and don't hear from him again until 7am!  The problem is I have never been able to get him to nap longer than 30 - 40 mins.  The first nap at 9am is the easiest as he will put himself to sleep but only for a short while.  As he is only having short naps his 1pm nap is really difficult to get him to settle and I have to assist using the shh pat method, I presume this is because he is now overtired from the previous short nap and can't settle himself.  All sleeps are in his crib apart from one at 5pm which I let him cat nap on the sofa for a short 20 -30 mins to see him through bathtime.

Please help, I know I shouldn't grumble as he sleeps so well at night, I just want him to be happier during the day and not so grumpy because he is tired.

[mrswalsh]

also, another question relating to the above, once I can establish extended naps will i ruin all the hard work by taking the baby out during nap times?  I can't surely have to stay in the house forever??

[corrina01]

Could you post his routine please.

As to the second question, I don't know the answer to that, unfortunately, my DD is used to sleeping in her cot, and nowhere else. But I run errands round her naptimes, like go to the shop for example.  But if I do have to go out during her naptime, I make sure she has one decent nap, and then during her actual naptime I do everything low key.

For example, she had to go to hospital for an appointment and that coincide with her nap, she didn't nap, but she was really good about it, and when we got home, I made sure she had a nap.

When they do get older, it will get easier.

[mrswalsh]

7am wake and feed
7.30 - 8.45 activity
9am nap
9.30 - 9.45 wake up - I spend the next hour and 15 min shhh patting and trying to get him back to sleep
11am feed
11.30 - 12.45 activity
1pm nap
1.30 - 1.45 wake up - I spend the next hour and 15 min shhh patting and trying to get him back to sleep
3pm feed
3.30 - 4.30/5ish activity
4.30/5ish nap for 20 - 30mins
5.30/6ish bath
6.30 feed
7pm bed

Sometimes the shhhh pat works, sometimes it doesn't!

HTH and thanks

[First Time Mom]

My dd is in that age group and was only taking 45 minute naps. I was able to extend the first morning one by going in at the 30 minute mark (she would stir at the sound of the door opening) and I would put her back into a sleep by replugging her paci. She mostly takes 2 hour naps now for her first one. The other 2 naps are left at 45 as she wakes happy. By extending the first one she has now eliminated her 4th (or catnap) so she's up from 4-6:30 but is happy with that. As for going out, it does distrupt her schedule but I try to time it- ie. if we are going somewhere in the car I know she'll sleep so I time our departure with nap time. Walks outside- she will not sleep so I time this with A time. The odd time if we're out for 5+ hours her naps are really short and more frequent so I'll put her to bed earlier and she does fine, the next day is back to routine. I try to limit these types of outings and never do 2 in a row.

[corrina01]

mrs walsh,

Is he nearly 4 months, then.

I think the naps is that short because he is overtired.  My DD was an exception to the rule, she always needed a lot of sleep.  But her awake time was just 1hr 30mins. 

Good that he is on a 4hr EASY, my DD was on a 3hr EASY and didn't move to a 3.5 EASY until she was 5 months and then a 4hr EASY at 6.5months

I see from his routine when he wakes at 9.45am you spend 1.15mins trying to get him back to sleep.  So he is awake from 9.45am till 1pm, 3+ hrs awake time, that indicates he is way overtired, and he won't nap very long.

Try and read your DS cues and put in to sleep when he is tired. Say when he wakes at 9.45am he would be getting tired at around 11.30am, put him to bed right after his feed.

I will post my routine if you want me to at 4months old.

HTH please feel free to ask any more questions, and I will try and answer them.

[brightside]

I've been having similar problems with my LO who is 14 weeks old. Apparently between weeks 12-16 baby's brains are developing their daytime naps which is why they are often irregular. I would say though that he shouldn't really be awake for more than 2hours so I would put him in bed before 1pm if he is waking at 9.45. My DS can only manage 1.75 hours max and if he has only had a short nap, he can only last 1.25-1.5 hours. I think the short nap problem sorts it self out eventually but in the meantime, if he's having shorter naps, I'd have shorter awake time.

[mrswalsh]

corina01 your timetable would be really helpful please.  Also I didn't mention (my brain stopped working the day I gave birth) that I have not been doing the shhh pat back to sleep for long, his previous schedule would have been wake up at 9.45 then fall asleep on mum at 10.30 to get him through his 11am feed.  Same with the 1.45 wake up then fall asleep on mum at 2.30pm to get him through the 3pm feed.  I felt I was entering into accidental parenting with this so decided to follow the wake to sleep method which has resulted in shhh patting back to sleep.

Oh I do hope it gets easier, I am so worried about setting bad practices that I feel I am focusing so much on getting it right and am not enjoying my son as much as I should.

Any further advice from anyone would be welcomed.  Its nice to know I'm not on my own.

[corrina01]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} to you.

I went through it at 3.5months, so you are not alone.

The sssh/pat method to get him back to sleep, is the right thing to do.

My routine went something  like this at 4 months

7am Wake, Eat
8.45am Sleep (1hr45mins)
10.30am Wake, Eat
12noon Sleep (1hr 30mins)
1.30pm Eat
3pm Sleep (1hr 15mins)
4.30pm Eat
5.45pm Sleep (30mins)
6.30pm bath and bedtime routine
7pm Bed.


HTH

[mrswalsh]

Thanks for the schedule.  I put Billy down at 8.40 this morning as he looked really tired.  He went straight away without his mantra cry.  I went up to his room 35 mins later and waited for the jolt, it took 25 mins shhh pat to get him back to sleep, its only been a further 10 mins but that is an improvement.  Also heard him stirring at 3.30am but left him and he went back to sleep although he was upside down in his cot this morning, must have had some kind of party in his cot last night.  Whilst typing it has now been 15 mins!  Sounds stupid but I feel I have achieved something even though its only 15 mins.

[corrina01]

YAY way to go 

It doesn't sound stupid at all, I still get excited when my DD sleeps for 2 hrs, after she has had bad naps for a few days, due to teething.

Dont forget 0-3months they develop their nightime sleep, and 3-6months they develop their daytime sleep.

Keep up the good work 

[mrswalsh]

Got in too late for the 1.30pm wake up, he wasn't crying though, so put the mobile back on to try and emulate the start of a nap time, didn't work so went back in and shhh patted back to sleep for 20mins - have just come out of the room now.  Fingers crossed!  How long should I persevere with the sshhh pat if his naps are not extending?  and if I can't get him to extend should I just put him down when tired, I could end up with him having 4 naps and 1 catnap?  Advice again please.

[corrina01]

Well when I did the ssshh/pat method I kept on going with it, until I saw a result, with my DD going quite easily through them.  Then I laid my hand on her, did not do the ssshh pat, and then sat by the side of the cot. I think I may of went overboard with this  , but it took me about 2 months.

If the naps are not extending, I would give it at least 30mins and then give up.

But I see you have already managed to extend the afternoon nap after 20 mins, well done.

I would put him down when he is tired, no matter what.  When they get a bit older then I would restrict  on how many naps and length of time, but I would not worry too much about that.

[mrswalsh]

corrina thanks for all your help and advice - one final question though, the morning nap is the easiest to get him back to sleep and extend but I do have a really bad back which I am on Painkillers for and undergoing physio and obviously leaning over a cot shhh patting is quite painful.  Do you think it is a good idea to perhaps try just extending the am nap and then putting him down for his pm getting him up when he wakes and put him back if he needs it.  I am concerned that too much of this might render me quite useless to him if I put my back out completely.  Perhaps if I am successful with the am I could then work on the pm and he is likely to alter anyway with age?

Also the last couple of nights he has disturbed in the early hours ie 3 and 4am.  I left him as it was only a shout and mantra cry and he went back to sleep - would this extending naps have anything to do with it?  He is also waking up upside down in the cot with his head at the bottom - is this safe?

Thanks again

[corrina01]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} to you for your painful back, I know what is like, and its not very nice at all.

You could do that, because when the am nap is extended, and he knows how to do it, he should follow suit with extending his pm naps.

He is likely to alter with age, because you are teaching him how to transition from one sleep cycle to the next, that will hit him and he will think, oh I know how to do it now.

I don't hear a peep from my DD in the morning (1hr30mins) and afternoon nap (2hrs).  She went suddenly to that, at about 5 months.

I was going to suggest taking the side rail off, but I read further on that he is turning upside down in his cot.  Yes, I think it is safe, because my DD does this all the while, and I have never been bothered by it. 

Extending naps is nothing to do with the shout and the mantra cry, it is what some babies do when they are transitioning sleep cycles.

[mrswalsh]

thanks again your advice really is a great help.  Hugs back to you and I will keep you updated with progess.  He is in bed now for his pm, he can't make to 1.30 so I will let him have this nap and then he made need another before 3pm feed.

Take care

[tinytatsmom]

Hi,
I also had the 30 - 40 minute napper, but mine at 6 months stopped sleeping thru the night after getting a cold.  I am currently working on getting back on easy and extending nap times to help night sleep.  I found that the wake to sleep didn't work for me (IE putting soother back in), so instead I go back in at 30 minute mark and make sure she gets thru past the 40 minute mark with pat/sshh or just holding my hand there.  After 1 day my 1st night was much better than any I've seen for a long time.  She actually had 2 1.5 hour naps and slept for 5 hours b4 she woke last night.  It's a little more work but seems to be worth it.
tinytatsmom

[mrswalsh]

Corrina

Thought I would update you - my back had gotten to the stage where it was sooooo bad I couldn't be bending over the cot to Shh pat or to hold through the jolts, but what appears to have happened is my ds wakes at the 45 min mark and does his mantra cry for somewhere between 5 and 15 mins whereafter he puts himself back to sleep for a further 45 - 50 mins!!!  He only manages this for the am nap, the pm nap is impossible he has anywhere between 30 and 40 mins and won't go back off in the cot but will sleep on me if I get him up.  I have conceeded on this one and decided that as he goes down so easily for both naps and is doing so well for the first I either let him sleep on me for a further half hour pm or go for a walk in the pram once he has woken.

It is definitely a mantra cry, I was concerned at first that I was resorting to CIO so I went to his room and observed this shout/cry during which he would stop occasionally and smile to himself, get comfy and look at his toys. It always sounds worse through those damned monitors!

We are also struggling with the pm catnap - he screams uncontrollably before this one for all of around 5mins whilst I shhh pat him , his eyes roll into the back of his head and then finally he goes off.

I am slightly worried that I am not doing everything perfect but hey, he goes to sleep independently for his am and pm nap and goes to sleep independently at night and sleeps through so perhaps I am wishing for too much!

Thanks for all your advice though.

[corrina01]

Wow, you have really gotten somewhere, well done.   

You have gotten to him sleep independately that is more than half the battle over.  He will learn to go through his sleep cycles and have more sleep.

You have done really well.

Hope your back gets better soon.

[mrswalsh]

OMG - he went 2 hours this am and I had to wake him for his feed!!!!!!  I brought some blackout liners so perhaps his room wasn't dark enough?  Anyway, won't count my chickens and all that as it is only one nap but I am hopeful this may be a turning point.

[corrina01]

Just to say well done.  It is lovely when they take 2hr naps.