Experiences with ebt at 5/6 months

[*Liz*]

Thomas has an A time of 2.5hrs, but often refuses the CN.

Just wondered what people found worked best - ebt or very late CN followed by late bt and therefore a long day....

I'm not looking for the perfect routine - just to avoid major evening meltdowns and serious EWs. Anything post 6am will do  !

[clazzat]

For us the late cn backfired every time.  I would always chose ebt over a late nap (from birth to now, frankly!) as that was what worked for us.  I do remember this age being particularly difficult as they didn't quite need the cn but couldn't quite manage without it - e, in particular, was often in bed at about 5pm at this age.  Don't recall it leading to sttn, but it was better than battling all evening!

[ZacsMumme]

We did EBT at this age a lot with both boys and it worked well. BT was 6 - sometimes even a touch earlier and he would do a much better (or at least the same NW wise with a later WU)
Something like this I think worked ok
WU 7ish
A 2hrs45mins (so I pushed it from 2.5 A)
Nap 9.45- 11.15 or 11.45
A 2hrs45mins
Nap ~ 2-3.30/4
BT 5.45-6 or a bit later depending on his naps (if he did 2 x 2 hrs then bT could be a bit later.) HTH x

[Emami]

EBT here too, and she will either do a long night, or at least if we do get an early wake up (only happened a couple of times) then at least there is plenty of time for the CN in the day instead of trying to squeeze one in. I hate late naps!

[*Liz*]

I seem to get getting either long NWings or EWs regardless currently  . He's getting pretty hard to get back down after a NF. Not sure if it's a reflux thing, or just general AP resistance, or what really.

Yesterday was
Awake 6.25am
Nap 8.45-10.40
Nap 1.15-2.45 (likely bust by hunger - DH fed him the previous bottle!!)
Refused CN
Asleep on bottle 6pm, finished all of it, then woke all wide eyed at 6.30pm  . Put down and went straight back to sleep, but was NOT sleeping on me so I wondered if he would treat it as a CN. But he didn't  .

Few resettles between 9 and 10 (gulping, so assume reflux related), but then slept until 4am.
Fed 6oz and stayed awake until 5.30am, then slept until 6.45am.

So I guess not awful - but I didn't enjoy being awake for so long at 4am  .

Looks very OT related though??

[clazzat]

We did get a lot of OT at that age because of cn refusal, but it seemed to me at the time that it was just one of those phases that you had to roll with.  TBH, I would have taken a night like yours any night when e and x were 6 months!

[newkidontheblock]

Definitely OT with the long gap from nap 2 to BT. Even an EBT of 6pm might be too late with that gap yk? And putting him down at 5.30 would just not be very feasible. It was at this time - 5 months - as we were transitioning to dropping the CN that I had to start accepting a late CN but I would move straight on to BT routine and get her down by 7. However, I think that worked for us because she would always do a short pm nap of 40 minutes. One thing that might be worth a try -- a late but short CN of just 15 minutes and then hopefully he would go down for bed at the normal time? As his A times keep increasing though, you could opt for an EBT.

[*Liz*]

If I just had one kid I guess I would be able to manage better  . APing CNs with the other 2 full throttle is often what leads to the refusal. Or too much in and out of the car.

Late CNs often give long MOTN wakings - like from 12-3  .

That much loss of night sleep then drives the need for naps doesn't it??

I guess it is a phase, but a very annoying one  ! I seem to have traded NFs for long NWings  .

[*Liz*]

He would go straight back down I think  , he is quite body clock orientated.

[newkidontheblock]

Late CNs often give long MOTN wakings - like from 12-3  .

Ugh, so long? That's rough! That must be UT as the CN hurts more than helps. That's why a tiny little nap just to relax him enough to not get OT. or 5.30 BT till A extends. But that might lead to it's own share of issues with EWs. Basically, nap 2 needs to end a touch later for a 6pm BT

[ZacsMumme]

We had the same liz, long motn nw when UT but silly NE from OT too
Honestly I know it's not fun but that night was ok considering the long A to BT. I'd keep pushing for the two long naps an EBt and you might find in a few weeks the nights settle and the naps become more stable.

I really found the 3-2 tough too, but the good thing is even with those nw your getting a longer night overall so OT won't be getting ridiculous

[newkidontheblock]

How are things, Liz?

[*Liz*]

Ahhhhh.... No super long NWings but plenty of EWs!

I've had 2 short lunchtime naps and ended up with longer CNs which I doubt helps anything. After a day like that yesterday he was asleep with 2.5hrs A to bed, but EW'd at 5am. I did manage to snuggle him back to sleep until 6am though.

Today has been a mess though:

Awake 6.10am
Nap 1 8.25-9.20 am (I woke him as we had a baby play date!! So it was a bit rude for him to be asleep....)
Nap2 11.20-12.40 (1h 20 ?OT but very pukey afterwards so could have been just wind/ reflux)
Nap 3 2.30-3.10 (fell asleep on bottle and woke happy as muck - def UT!)
Asleep 6.30pm on bottle

So we will see.

I guess I can live with the EWs as long as i don't get super long NWings.

My non-BWer IRL friend said she thought he just needed his own room/ out of the co-sleeper. Might be, but I'm reluctant as my room is a long way from his in the night and I am lazy.

[*Liz*]

He woke at 12.30am for a feed, then again at 4.50am. I couldn't snuggle him so fed him at 5.20am, but I doubt he will go back to sleep now  .

It's really hard as he will fuss and cry all the way through getting the big kids ready for school now. Plus he was sleepy on the bottle so I have no idea where to start the A from yk??

[newkidontheblock]

Oh no, how difficult for you, Liz! {{hugs}} Poor little guy - wonder what's up. His naps are pretty much what I would get from E at that age -- less more often than not. That CN before bed was always key for us so that no matter how awful the day was, she was relaxed enough to SS. But that also causes issues for him. So sorry that I can't be of more help:( Is it possible to give him a 10-15 minute CN and then start A from there? Just throwing ideas out there. Because nap 1 being too early might reinforce the EW. Hope the others have better advice

[*Liz*]

Thanks Fleur. Its tricky to figure out isn't it?? Unless the super long NWings were nothing to do with UT and were just one of those total random things.

There isn't much danger of nap 1 being too early when I have the school kids to sort out first and TBH I find it completely frustrating that he wants to nap before they leave for school - he hasn't done that since he was a few weeks old  .

Its impossible to reverse the OT on a 4.50am EW isn't it?? Because the day will end up far too long no matter how well he naps. Again he isn't going to bed at 4.50pm!!!!

An enforced CN resulting in 4 naps would completely backfire at this age, right??!!

[newkidontheblock]

The solution would only be an extra nap or some nice, long naps to catch up. Easier said than done, I know. It is a very tricky situation because even an extra CN lengthens the day even more! And while 4.50 BT isn't feasible - it will have to be earlier than normal. Long naps is the only answer I can see but no help with how to get them

Eris did these horrible 4.50am WUs two weeks ago for the first time ever. Horrible week. On some days I could get her back to sleep but mostly, she would sleep/doze as long as my hand was rubbing her back/patting her etc. The moment that stopped, she was up. I finally committed to keeping her calm and at least lying down. I did not count any of that 'down time' as part of WU. These only stopped once I kept her this way till normal WU time and then was very dramatic about WU. But I don't know if this is at all relevant or helpful for a 5mo.

[lily_layne]

An enforced CN resulting in 4 naps would completely backfire at this age, right??!!

I think it actually might work just to get you to a decent BT. If you could force a 4th (I know it's tricky with the other 2 around) and get a later BT between 7 and 8 it might get you a decent wake up the next day (even if it's a 10 hr OT night - does he do those?) and then you can work from there. Kind of like a reset.

Unless the super long NWings were nothing to do with UT and were just one of those total random things.

Reid just came out of a stretch of long NWs so it could just be a developmental blip.

Would he go back to sleep if you fed him? I know it messes with his eating schedule for the rest of the day but would it be worth a shot just to get to a decent WU?

We've been in a bit of a 3-2 mess lately and I've been doing a lot of thinking and reading (ok, more like obsessing) about how to handle it. Since T is body-clock oriented I am thinking maybe to just jump in with set naps on a day you get a decent WU and stick to it for a few days to see if things sort themselves out. Things got messy with DD with the 3-2 and she short-napped for ages after and, looking back, I think set naps would have helped. When reading old threads, I came across this schedule for average sleep needs 5 month olds that another BWer found worked really well:
WU: 7
S: 9-10:30
S: 1-2:30
BT: 7
She said she was reluctant to try it and kept adapting it (longer A time between naps and shorter A time to bed) but kept getting short naps. Once she followed it properly it worked really well. Once they are 6 months, the schedule is 9:30-11 and 1:30-3 with 7 WU and BT. Would either of those fit your life? I think the routines are from a book called Dream Baby. I also downloaded some schedules from another website and they were very similar - I can send them to you if you pm me your email. I think the idea is that the long A time to BT teaches them to take a longer pm nap and because that A is longer, they are ready for an am nap after a shorter A time. In the short term, if he's really OT you could probably use EBT along with those nap times to help him catch up.

I am thinking of aiming to follow that routine. Wanna hold hands?

[*Liz*]

Those sort of routines would basically work great for me - its just whether he can handle that very long A to bed isn't it? I am pretty sure the days where I get 2 short naps and then a long final nap are not helping though - whether the little fella is OT or not.

Here was yesterday

Awake 4.45am - fed at 5am but didn't help - kept in the dark and low key until 6.45am
Nap 1 8.25-9.45am (woke hungry - refused top up before nap)
Nap 2 11.40-12.10 (in carrier - I had to go out!)
Nap 3 14.15-15.00 (humph - ?UT ?windy as fed him before to try and get a long nap  )

Was basically asleep on bottle at 6.15pm - I had him in the carrier between 4.45 and 5.15pm but he didn't sleep and eventually got p**d off. Enjoyed his bath but had a big cry getting dressed  .

However the night wasn't too bad - he slept until 3am then fed 6oz and took until 4.15am to fall back asleep but then slept until 6.20am  .

I pushed him to 9am for his first nap (he obviously started thinking it was a good idea at 8.25am  .

I guess if the second nap is decent I will do 2 naps, but if it is rubbish will (try to) enforce a CN.

I usually do feed him at NWings, but a bottle feed doesn't seem to come with magic sleepy dust in the same way a BF does. I'm pretty sure I would have used the boob to deal with these EWs with the previous 2 kids

Thinking back, chaos was more often a need to change than OT with my other 2. But of course the details are a little lost on me now as it has been a while  .

[Kfro]

Just popping in to say that we are in the exact same boat with the 3-2....and it is driving me crazy!! The set naps does sound very appealing!