Author Topic: I can't do this! (Read 3781 times)

Missy Lou · « **on:** March 20, 2006, 01:20:04 am »

My baby is 5 weeks old. I have done an awful job so far. She has a very sensitive stomach and spends a better part of her day fighting to go to sleep but being woken up with pain. She fights me and sleep for up to two hours. Then will only sleep if she's in my arms. If I make the mistake of putting her down, she will wake within 5 minutes hysterical and it will take another hour or two to get her to sleep ( of course now with another feeding). I sleep with her at night because she'll sleep for a 3 to 4 hour period and since she only sleeps for an hour before waking up to eat again, I let her because I want her to get a good sleep.
I have read Baby Whisperer. I have tried letting her cry and then patting her back after 10 minutes. But she is a Spirited baby and if I let her cry, that's it. She'll be out of control for hours.
I have to fight the urge every day to not just get up and leave. When she cries, I feel like I'm in physical pain.

The Vern · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2006, 01:40:04 am »

Oh, I so empathize with you, but hang in there. And you CAN do it and you have been doing it already. I know it's hard at first, but around the six week mark, many tend to see changes in their los. Do you swaddle? I found that made a huge difference in my lo's ability to calm down and settle for naps. Now at 10 weeks, the swaddle acts as a cue for her that it's sleepy time. I at first believed our lo to be spirited, but now she has more tendencies toward textbook, I would say. What we do is use the swaddle at all sleeps, including naps, sit in the chair with her swaddles, sh/pat, rock gentle and possibly jiggle her gently. We do this until she's calm and then let up on the movements. Once her eyes are drowsy, but while she's still awake, we put her in her crib to do the rest herself. We stay with her with some sh-ing and a hand on her chest to help her through the initial jolts that she might have, though sometimes, she's off to sleep very quickly and we can leave almost immediately. My belief is that the gentle rocking and jiggling, which Tracy does not recommend we do, will not become props, as she still falls asleep on her own and is put down in her crib awake. Hope some of this helps you out, and once again, hang in there!

chell · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2006, 22:51:19 pm »

Hi Mlee and welcome to the boards

Sorry to hear you are having such a hard time, it is so tough during the first few weeks, but you will get lots of support and advice here. I haven't much time right now, but will get back to you as soon as I can. Hang in there, things will get better and you ar taking the first few steps in getting there by asking for advice.

Chat soon.
Chell

sleeplessinseattle · « **Reply #3 on:** March 21, 2006, 03:58:07 am »

I'm so sorry that you are having a rough time. We now have a 3 month old but, during the first few week it was the worst for me at times. We are lucky with our lo but, my sister has a foster son who has a LOT of trouble with his tummy. she uses a few methods that seem to make him more comfy..don't know if they will help but, here is what she has done: She uses a rolled up warm wash cloth (sometimes she'll put it wet in a microwave and heat it for a bit) then places it on his tummy when he's having a hard time with it...rolled in a ball and placed firmly against it. she will also pull his knees up to his tummy...putting his body in a C position to help with gas or tummy pain. Additionally, she will place him in a 'football hold' - holding him so that his face is in her hand..his body and belly across her forearm...legs dangling on either side of her arm/elbow area...i even used this on my son and it helped a lot with times that he was fussy in those first few weeks. It seems to help with gas for sure while their little systems are getting used to food for the first time. I don't know if this will help with the sleeping...but, may help relieve any gas or discomfort which may help in turn!?!?!?

hang in there!!

chell · « **Reply #4 on:** March 21, 2006, 14:56:03 pm »

So, is your lo on some kind of routine? If so could you let me know what this is? Is she feeding every hour?

I think at this early stage, the best thing to start with is really geting to know her - begin to really focus on every cry, her behaviour and body language. When she starts to cry, just hold back for a few seconds, and watch her, before you go and pick her up, make yourself stop and think, to try to work out what she may be telling you. This may seem obvious, but it is a skill, and an extremely important part of Baby Whispering. It took me quite a while to get the hang of it, but once I had, things became a lot easier, and I felt a bit more in control.

Regarding to sleep training, all of the methods take time. You need to be consistent, patient and persistent. It's all new to your lo, and will take a while for her to learn about day and night etc. I don't think you have been doing an awful job. You sound very loving and caring towards your lo. These are two of the most important things that you can ever do. So actually you are doing great

Let me know about your routine and we'll take it from there.

Missy Lou · « **Reply #5 on:** April 02, 2006, 00:32:39 am »

She eats about 2 ounces every 2.5 to 3 hours during the day. At night, she eats every 5 to 6 hours. her biggest problem is she won't sleep. Example: today. She fights nap time and cries (she has a clean diaper, is fed and dressed and burped). She'll fall asleep and then wake herself up. She goes through a very long active sleep but then wakes up and we start over. Once she falls asleep about 45 minutes later, I'll put her down. She wakes up about 5 minutes later crying. She is a Spirited baby and if I let her cry, she'll get worked up and take over an hour to get back to sleep. I have tried laying her in her bassinet before she's fully asleep - that makes her cry. She has never put herself back to sleep. She will cry until I pick her up and the longer I wait, the more hysterical she gets.
So I hold her, rock her whatever for an hour or so. Then I can't put her down unless I want to start all over again. I am exhausted and it's never ending. My whole life is holding her and listening to screams/crying. It doesn't get better and I know that tonight, tomorrow, the next day, etc. will just be a repeat of today. This feels so hopeless.
Also, I have read the book and done all of the things Tracy suggests - swaddling, lights down, saying sh, sh.

chell · « **Reply #6 on:** April 02, 2006, 06:02:02 am »

Ok, sorry to hear things are so hard at the moment, My lo has jsut woken up, so I need to sort him out. I will get back to you as soon as I can. Hold on I'm sure we can sort things out.

kirsty_167 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 02, 2006, 07:47:04 am »

HI...first off big hugs to you.Don't be so hard on yourself.You are doing a fine job.

The first 6-8 weeks are definitely the hardest.I know i felt exactly the same as you when Jakob was that age.I remember crying down the phone to my mom who told me not to worry they are normally settled by 3 months! Well that made me more upset as that was 7 weeks away!!!!

Jakob never slept during the day/night unless i rocked him.If i stopped he woke up.My arms ached,my head ached my whole body ached (i had a c-section)He cried constantly.I cried constantly!!!

On many occasions i wanted to run away and felt i was a useless mother not to be able to settle my own baby.BUT this wasn't the case,i wasn't useless at all,simply some babies have a harder time adjusting to the big wide world and take more time and effort in finding ways that work for them.My son was also diagnosed with severe reflux so that played a HUGE part in his non sleeping and crying.

Once i started implementing routines and doing pat/shush religiously for weeks things got better.It took 2 weeks of hard out work...but we got there.I decided that if i dedicated myself to sorting it out then 2 weeks wasn't so bad if it did work.It was rough yes but it was so worth having 2 weeks with little sleep,little time for me or anything else...to end up having a baby who slept!!!!!!!!!

Hang in there..you are so not alone and we are all here to help you...you are doing a fine job!!!! I promise it gets easier.One day it will just all fall into place and not seem so hard.

Take care sweetie
Kirsty

chell · « **Reply #8 on:** April 02, 2006, 12:15:31 pm »

Hi, Kirsty is right...the first few weeks are the hardest and things are going to get better for you. It may take a bit of work, but if you want things to change, and I have no doubt about that, then they will.

Quiet, or deep sleep requires a certain degree of maturity within the brain, which happens with time, that is why it is hard at first, plus help with training from you. What you are describing is experienced by lots of people.

Quote from: mlee . She goes through a very long active sleep but then wakes up and we start over. Once she falls asleep about 45 minutes later, I'll put her down.[/b

Just wondering, whether you mean you hold her for 45mins while she is sleeping in your arms, or do youtry to get her to sleep for 45mins, then put her down adn she'll wake 5 mins later? - can you clarify please?

Are you managing to keep her swaddled?

Are you managing to follow an EASY routine?

Missy Lou · « **Reply #9 on:** April 02, 2006, 16:01:36 pm »

Thanks for the encouragement. So many people say it will get better but it doesn't seem like it.

I kept a detailed schedule of yesterday. This seems to be a general routine of hers.

Starting Friday night:
E - 7 - 7:20 (2 ounces)
S - 7-9:30 - cried and tried to sleep
9:30-10:30 - rocked and held until fell asleep
10:30 - 12 - slept in bassinet

E - 12 - 12:30 (2 ounces)
S - 12:30 - 1:15 - cuddle and held until fell asleep
1:15 - 3:30 - slept

3:30 - 4:30 - rock and pat (didn't feed)

S - 4:30 - 6

E - 6 - 6:30 (2 ounces)
S 6:30 - 9 - rocked and drifted in and out of sleep

E - 9 - 9:30 (2 ounces)
A = 9:30 - 10:20
S - 10:20 - 10:45 - cuddle and held
10:45 - 11:15 - sleep
11:15 - 11:45 - cuddle and held
A - 11:45 - 12:05 - play

E - 12:05 - 12:40 (2 ounces)
S - 12:40 - 1:40
A - 1:40-2:15

E - 2:15 - 2:40 (2 ounces)
A - 2:40 - 3:10
S - 3:10 - 4:20 - cuddled and rocked and drifted in and out
4:20 - laid down and immediately woke up
4:20 - 4:40 - cuddled

A - 4:40 - 5
E - 5 - 5:25 (2 ounces)
A - 5:25 - 6
S - 6 - 7:20 - cried
7:20 - 8 - slept

E - 8 - 8:30 (2 ounces)
S - 8:30 - 10:30 - cuddled and rocked and drifted in and out
10:30 - 12:25 a.m. - slept

E - 12:25 - 12:35 (2 ounces)
S - 12:35 - 1:20 - cuddled and rocked
1:20 - 2:40 (3:40 with daylight savings) - slept

E - 3:45 - 4 - (1 ounce)
S - 4 - 4:50 - cuddled and rocked
4:50 - 6:40 - slept

E - 6:40 - 7 (2 ounces)
S - 7 - 9:45

E - 9:45 - 10:10 (2.5 ounces)
A - 10:10 - 10:55
S - 10:55 - 11:20 cuddled

It's now 11:30 and I think she's sleeping. WHen I write cuddled, I'm holding, rocking, patting and she is crying and fighting sleep and then drifting in and out of sleep. So I'm trying to follow the schedule. I know my biggest flaw is that I hold her until she's pretty much asleep before laying her down but it takes sometimes over an hour of rocking/cuddling to get her to sleep and it makes me so scared to lay her down and she wakes up and it starts all over. Some mornings I will just keep her in my arms so that I can sleep a little also.
I do swaddle but after she's asleep and before I lay her down because she is fighting me and is all over the place right before it's nap time (regardless of her activity time) so the blanket doesn't hold). Also she likes to fall asleep over my shoulder like the position for burping.

Plus, like I said in an earlier post, I've tried a couple of times to let her sooth herself and she ends up working herself up and then it will take forever to calm her down and then for her to sleep. I guess I'm scared to let her sooth herself because it means a lot of crying and screaming (which makes me cry) and no sleep. I'm already at the edge of crazy.

I want to be the person in the book that Tracy magically helps.

chell · « **Reply #10 on:** April 02, 2006, 20:07:16 pm »

Hi mlee, I too remember the endless cycle of Jacob not sleeping and understand how hard it can be. I have some more questions for you and we will work towards developing a firm plan for you to follow.

In your first post, you said that you thought your lo was in pain with her stomach......What behaviours, cues, cries or symptoms have led you believe this is the case?

Does she persistently cry at the same times every day, like clockwork ro does it vary?I think you should persevere with swaddling. It is a skill in itself and takes practice. Often los will fight it, usually this is because they are very tired, as opposed to hating it. Here is a link which shows pictures of how to swaddle, it's not the way I used to do it, but it actually looks better: http://www.swsahs.nsw.gov.au/karitane/docs/wrap.asp
I used a large thin type cotton sheet - it was flanelette, which gripped better than flat cotton. You need to swaddle quite firmly.
It would be better if you started to swaddle your lo before her sleep times, as she will come to associate this as a cue for sleep. It will also help with the jolts which are probably waking her up, after she has appeared to have settled.

For a 6 week old baby they need about 16-17 hours sleep in 24. Looking at your routine this seems to be about right. You shouldn't let them sleep for more than 6 during the day. It seems as though your lo is sleeping, but not at night in one block, and has not yet learnt to get herself off, or pass through the jolts. Another useful link is https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=39164.0 Please check this out.

I have to go now, but will check in again tomorrow.

chell

Missy Lou · « **Reply #11 on:** April 03, 2006, 14:41:48 pm »

I am in the process of reading the link you attached. Thank you. It's helpful.

My daughter was 7 weeks on Saturday. Like you see, she wakes up pretty much every 3 hours during the night and eats. Should she not be getting up to eat so much at 7 weeks? She is pretty consistent about taking 2 ounces at every feeding. Last night, I even gave her a little bit of rice cereal mixed with water at her late night feeding and she still woke up 3 hours later to eat. I know she has sleeping problems but I wonder if she has an eating issue also. Her stomach pains seem to have stopped. She would wail and scrunch up her face and stiffen. Her cry was different from hungry. Also, 2 weeks ago I started her on soy formula and that made her constipated so I switched to milk formula and that has ended.

Her crying has gotten worse the past few days. She does cry more when the sun goes down. She seems to get hysterical after the 5 o'clock feeding/bath time and again at the 8 o'clock feeding. It takes forever to wind her down. She screams and screams. It's no longer just crying. I am reading the posts on the that link though and will try those suggestions and let you know if there are any differences.

You are really helpful. I appreciate the time you are putting into helping me.

Mia & Scarlett's Mummy · « **Reply #12 on:** April 03, 2006, 19:26:13 pm »

Hello, I won't jump in and offer advice as it seems the other mods and posters are doing a great job. I've just read your posts and wanted to join everyone else who has told you that it does get better.....because it really does!

The first few weeks with my dd were just awful, I was convinced she had colic when in reality she was a very overtired baby with wind, oh I'd do so much differently if I could have my time again.

I think the very fact that you're here shows that you are doing a great job. We all are. And I can't tell you how great it suddenly gets to be a mommy.

Missy Lou · « **Reply #13 on:** April 03, 2006, 23:52:33 pm »

Mias Mom:
I read the thread on spritied babies under the EASY topic. It's not very encouraging. It seems as though things don't get better the older DD gets - there are 1 and 2 year olds with the same problems I'm experiencing now with nap time.
How did you do nap time with a spirited baby? did it work? it doesn't seem as though the other spirited baby moms have had much success with EASY.

Missy Lou · « **Reply #14 on:** April 04, 2006, 02:54:36 am »

Chell:
I tried pat/sh today all day. From 7 this morning until 10 tonight, she's slept maybe 2 hours. She's hysterical and I'm out of patience. My crying spells that happened maybe once a week have been several times a day for the past few days. I can't even look at her anymore. which of course makes me feel evil.

Thank you for the time you've put into this thread but don't worry about it. This isn't working out but I appreciate your advice.

chell · « **Reply #15 on:** April 04, 2006, 05:57:34 am »

oh, mlee, don't give up. I have to get ready for work in a minute...but I'll come back to you later. Do you know that your lo is spirited? Can you tell me in more detail about the swaddling, are you actually doing this?

How long does she scream for after the 5pm & 8pm feeds?

I wouldn't bother with trying solids at the moment, I don't think it will help just yet.

I know things are really bad, but have you been able to try to focus on her behaviours and cries, to try to tell the difference between them and what she is trying to tell you?

Have a look at pgs.80-82 &86-88 - Secrets of the Baby Whisperer - they are only charts, so won't take long to have a look and tell me if any thing stands out to you.

kirsty_167 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 04, 2006, 08:30:39 am »

Hi......oh sweetie i totally understand you are at your wits end.I was there when jakob was 7 weeks old too.BIG BIG hugs!!!!

Does you baby show any symptoms of reflux at all? My baby i was told had colic by 2 doctors before reflux was finally diagnosed.No amount of pat/shush worked for me until after he had been established on meds for reflux.I am only asking this as i know what you seem to be going through is EXACTLY what i went through.I could never understand why things wernt getting better when i followed all the advice and read all the books!!!!!!

Here is what jakob was like from 2 weeks until 10 weeks of age
*he screamed/cried most of the day/night
*only slept for short bursts and only when i was rocking him
*would be awake,crying for very long stretches-some days up to 10 hours with NO sleep at all!
*cried during and after feeds
*pulled his legs up tight
*went rigid all over after feeds
*was never relaxed or content

NOW at 8 months (and since 4 months)
*he is generally happy
*has 2 good naps and a catnap
*sleeps from 7pm until 6.45/7am

Your baby may not have reflux and im not saying they do,i just wanted to post to show you what i went through,what the problem was for me and how much better it has got.There will be end in sight for you.Things will settle down.It may take time.It may be hard work,but it will happen i promise you.

Hun you arent alone.I had many dark days and i felt like the worst mother on earth with how i was feeling towards my ability and my baby.All my friends with babies seemed to have such easy babies and here i was with a baby i couldnt take anywhere as all he did was scream!!! NOW however with them all being around 8-10 months,jakob is the only one who isnt waking up lots in the night.How things change! I would rather have had it the way i did than still be getting up in the night nearly a year down the track.

Dont give up on BW or the help you can get on here.It does take time...some longer than others but it will eventually happen.Right now all you can do is make sure you get some time out,lots of rest and when it all gets too much jump on the computer and post us.............rant,rave,get it out.Thats exactly what i did and i will always be grateful to the people who supported me during my difficult times.

HUn take care...............we are here for you.

Kirsty

Mia & Scarlett's Mummy · « **Reply #17 on:** April 04, 2006, 10:34:09 am »

Mlee

To answer your question tome, nap times with my spirited dd have always been the biggest challenge and I think they always will. When she realises I'm putting her down for a nap she starts throwing things off her changing table as a delaying tactic - she really doesn't like napping especially now there's so much she can do. However, I managed to get naps cracked with the help of bw and consistently ignoring the advice of my friends, doctor, health visitor to let her CIO, rock her to sleep, feed her to sleep, take her for a car ride - aargh!!!

Okay, what I did was adapt tracys 4 s routine to my lo's nature and personality. When her sleep window is open I need to act quickly because as with most spirited babies she gets overtired very quicly. This means our wind down routine is not very long - (10 mins at most).

1. Set the scene. I take her up to her room, drawn the blinds and curtains, change her nappy, put her in her sleeping bag. That's all I need to do she knows it's nap time then.

2. Swaddling. Lots of spirited babies don't like to be swaddled. Mine included. As soon as I stopped swaddling her (at around 8 weeks) we took massive steps forward napwise. She now goes into her sleeping bag.

3. Sitting. I sit in my chair next to her cot and give her a cuddle until she's drowsy. This takes the longest period of time - can be up to 5 minutes. And I wouldn't get very far if I didn't have a dummy. Again because she realises it's making her drowsy she tries to spit it out but I just keep popping it back in until she can't fight it anymore.

4. Shush-pat. People adapt this to their baby in all sorts of different ways. Some do it in the cot, some holding them. I always did it when I was holding Mia. She doesn't need it by the time I put her in the cot. I would only need to shush very quietly and pat very gently - it was more of a rub on her back. Anything else seemed to stimulate her.

Finally when I felt the first jolt - ie her descending into sleep I would very slowly lower her into her cot. If she couldn't settle I would do step 4 again sometimes 3 or 4 times until she couldn't fight it anymore and went to sleep. Now at 7.5 months I don't do ssshh/pat, she no longer needs it. I do step 4 by just sitting very still with her. If she's ever very upset a little ssshhing and back rubbing calms her down.

Really hope that helps you. Please keep us informed od your progess.

harriets mom · « **Reply #18 on:** April 04, 2006, 11:45:44 am »

i feel the same way often and my baby sleeps and eats for much longer. I think the way we feel might be a bit of depression and tiredness all rolled into one. I'm afraid I've no answers though, only that things can only get better !

chell · « **Reply #19 on:** April 04, 2006, 17:19:41 pm »

Thanks for your input everyone

Like Mias mom said- I too was wondering if you use a dummy/paci and wondered if this might help.

nursemotto · « **Reply #20 on:** April 05, 2006, 01:05:06 am »

Just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. I have been struggling also, just recently it has gotten better when I started EASY. It is SOOO hard in the beginning..... the key is consistency. Even if you have been shhhshing and patting for 10 minutes (which lets be honest...feels like an hour), you MUST stick with it. If you have to, place baby down for a few minutes and get away from the cries...just a few minutes. It WILL recharge you. Remember that baby is just overtired and doesn't know how to put herself to sleep. It is so hard to teach the baby to sleep...stay positive sweetie...remember that this will NOT last forever...she WILL learn to sleep through the excellent guidence of her wonderful mother. Keep it up...if you are consistent every time it is sleepy time, she will learn and pick up on the cues you give her that it is time to sleep and she WILL calm down much faster and sleep. Do the same exact thing for at least 3 days...I swear you will see a change for the better. Stay in contact with everyone on this message board...they are all wonderful...and here to support you. Don't give up.

~kelly

Missy Lou · « **Reply #21 on:** April 05, 2006, 17:48:59 pm »

Guys:
Thank you so much for your support. Some days just feel never-ending. This website/your posts help me a lot to not feel so alone or hopeless.
I am trying to continue with EASY. Her problems sleeping can throw it off quite a bit but I do understand the need to give her a routine.
I can't express enough how much I appreciate your concern.

I'll post again in a few days after doing EASY and see if she's doing better. She had a good day yesterday more or less. Her eating changes because she doesn't sleep for long and will be up crying. I read that after 45 minutes of crying, I should see if she's hungry. She usually is by that time but since it has only been 2 or so hours since the last feed, she doesn't eat as much ( 1 oz instead of 2 oz) so that makes her wake up 2 hours later again to feed. So I'm trying to modify her schedule for that because if she doesn't sleep enough, she can't go 3 hours without eating.

I have another question about eating if that's ok even though this is a sleeping thread. She 7.5 weeks old. She hasn't been to the doctor since she was 3 weeks old at which time she weighed 6 pounds, 10 ounces and the doctor said he was happy with her growth. I'm sure she's bigger than that now - she feels a lot heavier but I don't know her exact weight. She generally eats about 2 or 2.5 ounces (60 - 70 ml I believe). She feeds every 3 hours generally and sometimes at night can go 4-5 hours without feeding. Is she not eating enough? Tracy's book says a formula feed baby between 6 and 8 weeks should be eating 6-8 ounces (I'm pretty sure that was the amount). She's not even close to that. I don't know if this matters but she was 3 weeks early and weighed 5 pounds, 13 ounces at birth.

f1re_cr4cker · « **Reply #22 on:** April 05, 2006, 17:56:43 pm »

mlee ur little one sounds exactly how mine was!! she is spirited too! IT WILL GET BETTER!!!! however i would really recommend swaddling ur lo- get a miracle blnaket they work wonders!!! my lo was exactly the same and wanted to be held so i used one ofthese and it worked! at 10 weeks i also introduced a dummy which made life so much easier! i really enjoy my lo now and every1 i meet says how happy and smiley she is- she has one hell of a temper still though!

f1re_cr4cker · « **Reply #23 on:** April 05, 2006, 17:57:50 pm »

re the feeding my dd was also the same -shes never eaten laods and onyl went 4-5 hours at night- just persevere it'll come with age!!!

The Vern · « **Reply #24 on:** April 05, 2006, 18:24:05 pm »

re: your feeding question, my lo is 13 weeks now and has never taken 6 oz on the odd occasion, most often taking 4-5 oz. I also thought to really emphasize how well the swaddling worked for us and I agree with a prior poster the importance of swaddling before lo falls asleep, as the swaddling in itself will act as a sleep cue and your lo will eventually come to associate the swaddling with going to sleep. Keep at it!

chell · « **Reply #25 on:** April 05, 2006, 19:42:11 pm »

Hi, I would post on the feeding boards, to get the expert knowledge you are looking for...(you could just copy and paste that last paragraph on to the new post

)

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Author Topic: I can't do this! (Read 3781 times)