BabyWhispererForums.com
EAT => Feeding Solid Food => Topic started by: Khalam's Mama on April 11, 2010, 21:18:29 pm
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I started off giving my babies brown versions of rice, pasta and bread as I thought it was the healthier option but I have since read that they should be avoided due to the high level of fibre which fills them up with few calories and also can affect the absorption of minerals like iron and calcium.
Does anyone have any idea when they can start eating these foods?
My son is nearly 10MO. What are other 10MO moms doing?
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TBH, I hadn't heard that about 'brown' foods. I've always given ds whole wheat pasta (since 9ish mo old) - he has a dairy allergy and the Catelli whole wheat pasta was the only one I could find that didn't 'contain traces of milk ingredients'. I've used brown rice for him too, and baked whole wheat bread at home. His doctor knew what I was feeding him and didn't mention any concerns. In fact, he encouraged my to use whole grain options as it gets them used to those flavours now, rather than trying to introduce them to a picky toddler.
Does your ds eat a lot of pasta/rice/etc? I am definitely interested to hear if others have heard that recommendation also.
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Whole grains *can* be harder for people, not just babies, to digest and get full nutrition from. What we do is soak grains for 8 hours, so all day or overnight, before cooking them. This gets them to actually start sprouting, which de-activates an enzyme that makes them harder to digest. By and large, I would still go and give a whole-grain version of a grain rather than a refined one, so not white rice or white bread. I'd rather have the fiber than the empty nutrition which is left after refining, which is basically starch and nothing else. :(
Brown rice I've read different things about on that, one approach says that rice isn't a big deal and another says that it takes an even longer soaking time for brown rice to be easy to digest, at least 20 hours - but we eat some anyway, just not lots of the stuff.
But I will sometimes soak, say, some barley or millet or oats overnight and cook it up for breakfast in the morning. The girls love it! And if you soak rolled oats overnight, it only takes like 5 minutes to cook them! (I wish Josie didn't react to rolled oats the way she does or we'd have 'em more often! :))
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Yeah my thoughts too were to start with brown so he would get the taste for it now. I hate giving white versions and i have to buy separately as we tend to eat brown.
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In the UK we are advised not to give a fully wholegrain diet until the age of 5 but a mix of white and brown is ok. We tend to give white rice and pasta and use wholemeal bread. From th UK babycentre website:
A high-fibre diet is not suitable for babies or young children. Occasional use of wholemeal bread, pasta and grains is fine, but too many of them could fill up your child's tummy, not allowing room for other foods. Do not add bran to your baby's food since it prevents some important minerals from being absorbed. Do offer your child a variety of starchy foods, including wholegrain varieties, but don't use wholegrain foods exclusively until your child is five years old.
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we also give white rice/ pasta and wholemeal bread.
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The FSA also said some brown bread was ok. No wonder children tend to prefer white varieties when they get older if it is what they are used to. My Lo had lost weight at his last weigh-in so I am being especially vigilant about not filling him up on things that will prevent him eating more nutritious food. I never realised it was 5 though!
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I have always read this as well -- at about age 3 they can have 50-50 white and whole grain but before that whole grains should be much less than 50% of the grains consumed. The reasoning is not that they are harder to digest but because they are higher in fibre, and thus "bulk up" things a bit more and leave you feeling fuller for longer, and take up more space in the digestive system than white grains. White grains will have the same number of calories as whole grains but leave more room for other foods...when toddlers get picky and tend to eat very little through the day, it's better to get some more calorie rich foods into them rather than filling whole grains. So for us it is white grains (few times a week rye bread though I am not sure if it counts as a whole grain) and then it leaves space in his belly for me to get some meats, fats, other proteins, etc in!
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I am still so surprised by this recommendation and like Debs idea. I will use it for my next one. I am against white bread/pasta, etc as it has no nutrition and it is really linked to obesity. I would never eat it and don't want to feed it to my children. Thanks Deb for sharing what you do. The ped never mentioned this to me and I have been giving my LO whole grains since he has been introduced to them.
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Wow, I'm with Kara and am so surprised... Though I don't really have many options as far as pasta and bread are concerned with Dylan's allergies, I can at least switch to white rice. Thanks for starting this thread!
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I am against white bread/pasta, etc as it has no nutrition and it is really linked to obesity.
I think to say it has NO nutrition is not really correct - it certainly is less nutritious than whole grain breads but it is not nutrition-free.
To compare - and this is just generic wholegrain bread vs white bread, brands will vary and so on, but the nutrition website I use breaks the two down as this...
One 25g slice of bread contains
WG: 70 cal
white: 66 cal
WG: 1g fat
white: 1g fat
WG: 109g sodium
white: 170g sodium
WG: 11g carbs incl 2g of fibre and 2g sugars
white: 13g carbs incl 1g fibre and 1g sugars
WG: 3g protein
white: 2g protein
WG: 3% RDA calcium, 4% RDA iron, 5% RDA folate and various minerals in 1-10% of RDA
white: 4% RDA calcium, 5% RDA iron, 7% RDA folate, and various minerals in 1-10% of RDA
As I said this is just "random" commerically produced wholegrain and white breads so comparing brand names and certain breads will weigh in differently - and you can get whole grains with seeds and things to add more good stuff into it but just to take a snapshot view. (Ref the website I use to check nutrition facts is www.nutritiondata.com where you can enter foods both general and name brand and read the nutrition labels and get some other facts).
Certainly whole grain is a much healthier lifestyle choice, heart healthy, bowel healthy and so on and if you're buying a really good whole grain bread then it's going to be overall a better choice for nutrition. But the sources that suggest choosing white grains for toddlers are looking at it from a different angle, I believe. That toddlers need fats and calories in their diet, and if they are getting full from eating 2 slices of whole grain bread and getting say 150 calories from that, they could instead have 2 slices of white bread and then still have room in their tummies for more fats and other things that they also need. The white bread tends to be burned off faster and you are hungrier sooner (so more opportunities for more fats and calories for a toddler) while a whole grain will make you feel fuller for longer. Does that make sense?
I know what you are saying by white grains being linked to obesity but at the same time, I feel there is more to it than that -- simply eating white bread does not turn you into an obese adult. We are a white grain family and neither one of us is at all obese - come from being raised on white grains and none of my family has any weight issues at all. Yep, I have 6kg of baby weight to still lose but that is mostly due to the 150g of amazing Swiss chocolate I shove in my mouth every day than the fact that I eat white bread! I was strictly on whole grain bread when I was pg (just craved it and white bread made me sick!) but aside from those 9 months that's the only time I've eaten whole grains. My own thought process on this is (again a broad generalisation) that people who choose whole grains probably tend to be more health conscious as it is, watching what they eat, exercising as they should, making heart healthy choices and so on, while those who eat white bread may be less conscious about these things and not as concerned overall with the full dietary picture. Don't mean that in any offensive way so please don't anyone take it like that, as I said we are white bread, white rice, white pasta eaters! (Ironically I am really into nutrition and diet and knowing what are the best choices and what a healthy diet is and all that, but when it comes down to it I just prefer the junk and so do not practice what I preach very often!)
With all things nutrition my own approach is to know what's best, know the "bad" side of the poorer choices and then make decisions that lead to a good well-rounded approach. For instance, if you have a toddler who will not eat whole grain breads then is it better for them to eat white or none? Or the opposite - if they don't like the white products is it preferred they eat whole grain or none? For each family it comes down to what is optimal for you and your family lifestyle, really.
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Mashi, I don't mean to offend. I hope I didn't offend you. I have been giving this a lot of thought and talking to my friends with LO's about this. The only ones who give their LO's white products are the ones who eat it themselves. They tend to have poor eating habits in general, so it is the way they feed their LO's. Their LO's diets are high in processed foods, sugar, and white products. (I am not saying that you feed your LO that way. It is just the mindset with these girls). Those of us who focus on nutrition feed their LO's whole grains, because that is what we eat. We have never been told to do otherwise. I was raised on whole wheat bread and can count on 1 hand the amount of times I have eaten white.
I also think a reason children have issues with eating whole grains is that they aren't started on whole grains. My friend who feeds her children white bread and processed foods, has a hard time getting her LO's to eat any real wholesome foods. I think that children have a more difficult time developing a taste for something when they aren't exposed to it.
My LO is so used to eating this way, that when I don't give him a high fiber breakfast, he is constipated. He actually thrives on a high fiber diet. The same with my nephews. They both eat a high fiber diet and without it, end up needing Mirilax in their drinks because they get constipated.
As for the obesity issue, in America obesity is children is an epidemic. If you read anything, whole grains are encouraged because white products are linked to diabetes and obesity. While are carbs are broken down into sugar, white products especially effect insulin production. The fiber in whole grains, minimizes such effect.
WIth my next LO, I will address this issue with our Ped. But I have never been told to not give whole grains and neither have my friends. Right now my LO eats very well and he knows what real foods taste like. He eats foods that most toddlers won't touch because it is all he knows. I will admit that there was a month when he didn't have an appetite and I was worried. Knowing the high fiber issue, I probably would have cut back on some of it. But since he now eats non-stop, I am not worried.
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For me the issue with wholegrains is availability of vitamins and minerals rather than calories or amount of fat/carbs/protein. Whole grains are a double edged sword - they have more b-vitamins and minerals BUT they contain phytic acid, which binds to minerals and makes them difficult to absorb (that's why bran is not recommended for young children, loaded with phytic acid. Plus too much roughage like bran can be irritating to the bowel.
The compromise is to do like Deb suggested, soak wholgrains before use, it reduces the levels of phytic acid. As for bread, wholemeal sourdough bread has some of the phytic acid and proteins broken down and is easier to digest so the nutrients are easier to absorb.
We do eat white rice - I am Asian and can't eat Asian food with brown rice! But I do use brown rice for other things, but soak it for a while OR cook it on low in stock for ages. I also use a wholemeal flour that has half the bran removed, so gets rid of some of the phytic acid but still has more B-vitamins than white flour.
So really I can see where both sides of the argument are coming from. And it's an issue not just for young children but adults too.
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And really, when push comes to shove, how much starch should anyone eat, regardless of age? How much white rice and pasta in a diet are really healthy? There's are so many foods with the nutrients humans need, and many of them don't have to have nutrients added back in (aka "fortified") because they were taken out: for carbs, there's squash, potatoes, sweet potatoes, corn (which can be hard to digest as well), legumes/pulses, fruits - basically anything not meat. :) And there's something to be said for *some* fiber in the diet. There's definitely no basis for including white bread and pasta daily - compared to honest-to-goodness fruits, veg, meat/fish (for those who eat it) and dairy/eggs (for those who eat them as well), the nutritional value is next to nil, while the calorie count and glycemic index are really quite high. :-\ It isn't hard for kids to develop a really strong preference for the empty calories of Wonder Bread over whole wheat for a lifetime.
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Mashi, I don't mean to offend. I hope I didn't offend you.
Certainly you did not! Just as I hope I have not offended anyone else - these are the kinds of issues where I just feel that open discussions with no "restrictions" on what you say are important..we all learn from them that way and get a chance to see a bigger picture of choices around the world and in different families and the ways things are done different to our own, kwim?
I have been giving this a lot of thought and talking to my friends with LO's about this. The only ones who give their LO's white products are the ones who eat it themselves. They tend to have poor eating habits in general, so it is the way they feed their LO's. Their LO's diets are high in processed foods, sugar, and white products. (I am not saying that you feed your LO that way. It is just the mindset with these girls). Those of us who focus on nutrition feed their LO's whole grains, because that is what we eat. We have never been told to do otherwise. I was raised on whole wheat bread and can count on 1 hand the amount of times I have eaten white.
I really DO understand this - as I said I think that people who chose whole grains are probably on average more aware of nutrition and diet and healthy lifestyle. I am big on it, I really like learning about it, know the "score" and before and during pregnancy was a very healthy eater and was big into my exercise regime and what not. But still just prefered the taste of white grains!!! Since DS was born a lot of that has gone out the window, but I still "know my stuff" and DH and I do hide a lot of what we eat from DS because we don't want him eating it (until he's old enough to know the choices he is making, iykwim) and know it's not right. We eat very few processed foods and aside from my daily bar of chocolate not a lot of sugar (and that daily chocolate....really, it's pretty near impossible to resist with where we live! That's my excuse!) I focus on nutrition for DS, am very aware of the choices I am making for him, and despite his pickiness do everything we can to get the "right" stuff into hmi.
I also think a reason children have issues with eating whole grains is that they aren't started on whole grains. My friend who feeds her children white bread and processed foods, has a hard time getting her LO's to eat any real wholesome foods. I think that children have a more difficult time developing a taste for something when they aren't exposed to it.
I agree 100% - I would even go further on this to say that children who eat lots of processed foods have a harder time learning to eat and enjoy the simple tastes and flavours of say biting into a ripe tomato and loving the taste, or appreciating the crunch of a fresh carrot out of the ground, or know how amazing it is to pick your own peas and eat them right out of the pod! You learn to think that food "tastes" a certain way and that's the end of that! DS eats rye bread and pumpernickel bread - he actually thinks that the little discs of pumpernickel are biscuits because of the shape :P but our whole grain options here are just ones that we don't like - German breads are an acquired taste I think. And I certainly do hate the way the mothers at playgroup look at me when DS is eating white toast and their kids are eating bread that I can not identify..doesn't mean I am not concerned about my child's health and nutrition or that I do not "know any better" but it is a choice I/we have made as far as bread goes and it's nothing more than that, kwim? On the flip side we also have friends who would never know any better and would not know what whole grain was if you beat them over the head with it and so I can see how easy it is to make that assumption.
My LO is so used to eating this way, that when I don't give him a high fiber breakfast, he is constipated. He actually thrives on a high fiber diet. The same with my nephews. They both eat a high fiber diet and without it, end up needing Mirilax in their drinks because they get constipated.
Well, this is where I say that every family needs to know their children/themselves and make the choices that are right for them. So your child needs high fibre, that's what you have to feed them!!!
As for the obesity issue, in America obesity is children is an epidemic. If you read anything, whole grains are encouraged because white products are linked to diabetes and obesity. While are carbs are broken down into sugar, white products especially effect insulin production. The fiber in whole grains, minimizes such effect.
Yes, I realise this. That's why I was pointing out the sources that say to feed mostly white grains and what their reasoning is behind it - simply to leave more space in a growing tummy for fats and additional calories. If you're not feeding your kids cake and ice cream and lots of sugary junk then the sugars in white breads are not going to be as much of an issue as if your kids are not eating overall healthy,kwim?
WIth my next LO, I will address this issue with our Ped. But I have never been told to not give whole grains and neither have my friends. Right now my LO eats very well and he knows what real foods taste like. He eats foods that most toddlers won't touch because it is all he knows. I will admit that there was a month when he didn't have an appetite and I was worried. Knowing the high fiber issue, I probably would have cut back on some of it. But since he now eats non-stop, I am not worried.
Well, we were never specifically told to not use whole grains either. It's just something I learned from reading about toddler nutrition. I think it is great that your LO is not a picky eater - FWIW mine was not until about 18 months...prior to that the first time I gave him a biscuit he took one bite and shook his head and said no, and ate peas instead!!!
PS Deb - with fiber the recommended amount for toddlers is 14g per 1000cal and for adults about 18g per 1000 cal per day. So I am not saying that they do not need fiber. But there is a difference in a high fiber diet and getting your RDA of dietary fiber.
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I've come to realise where the white carbs fit in - they are cheap meal stretchers. Just pure calories/energy. Protein foods are more nutritious but much more expensive and/or take a long time to produce. Very hard to "feed the masses" on those. Not hard to realise why the world's population exploded after agriculture was introduced compared with hunter gatherer lifestyles ! Would Asia have its population without rice?
But in a lot of ways the white carbs are a form of "nutrient rationing". If you can get all the nutrients you need while including white carbs, fine, but otherwise?
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"PS Deb - with fiber the recommended amount for toddlers is 14g per 1000cal and for adults about 18g per 1000 cal per day. So I am not saying that they do not need fiber. But there is a difference in a high fiber diet and getting your RDA of dietary fiber."
Frankly, I trust those RDA numbers about as far as I can throw them. In the States, the RDA's are created by the folks who let us use artificial red food coloring because it's "safe" and refuse to consider labelling GMO food. :P But that's another thread for another time. :)
Lan makes a good point about white carbs being "filler," pretty much. I have to admit, bread holds the PBJ's together a lot better - but since we began to make more of an effort to eat less of the filler and more real food, we've all been healthier overall. It's easy to go overboard in pretty much any dietary direction, really; in the end, we can just do the best we can with the info we have available.
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Out of curiosity then do you think those numbers are too high or too low for fiber? I did not get them from an American source, they are from the Canadian Heart Foundation.
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I have no idea if they're too high or low. I just don't trust the FDA in general. :D Here in the States, those RDA numbers are held up on pedestals. ::)
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I recall reading some studies on hunter gatherer diets and fibre ranged from very high (eg cassava/taro/yam based diets) to almost nil (eg Inuit). So there's a wide range of fibre intake that humans can tolerate and still be healthy. In fact I think that's the reason for humans populating almost all parts of the planet - the ability to adapt to a wide range of diets and climates.
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Another thing to consider: I can read the label on the bread or pasta or whatever packages and see how much fiber is in there, but if I'm already at the "limit," I'm not going to go online and find out how much fiber is in, say, a plate of carrot sticks, or a bowl of lettuce to make sure I don't go over. :D I'm gonna feed my kid the carrot sticks and/or lettuce, and probably stick with the whole-grain bread/pasta. The carrots and the lettuce have nutrients that the bread just doesn't have, or have in the quantity or quality that the whole FOOD (meaning the straight-up fruits and veggies with fiber) does.
I don't think most people give or eat all the day's fiber in one sitting, either; spaced out throughout the day it makes a difference. :)
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Well, we were never specifically told to not use whole grains either. It's just something I learned from reading about toddler nutrition. I think it is great that your LO is not a picky eater - FWIW mine was not until about 18 months...prior to that the first time I gave him a biscuit he took one bite and shook his head and said no, and ate peas instead!!!
Don't get me wrong Mashi - he is still picky!! But he doesn't realize that the foods he is choosing are still not normal toddler foods. KWIM?
You are so good at reading up on all of this stuff. I read up on making baby food and that was the end of it I guess. Beyond that I was just trying to make sure my toddler gets nutritious foods.
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Another thing to consider: I can read the label on the bread or pasta or whatever packages and see how much fiber is in there, but if I'm already at the "limit," I'm not going to go online and find out how much fiber is in, say, a plate of carrot sticks, or a bowl of lettuce to make sure I don't go over. Cheesy I'm gonna feed my kid the carrot sticks and/or lettuce, and probably stick with the whole-grain bread/pasta.
Yes but Deb, in all fairness your children are not toddlers!!!!! The guideline of limiting whole grains is for babies and toddlers, not for school aged children. And for adults afaik there is not a "limit" - the RDAs are not usually "no more than x amount of" except for sodium and sugar, fats, etc. Things that are good for you they tell you a minimum amount. So there is not a reason to check a label and say I am at the "limit" for fiber, as it is not something to limit in children and adults. I have also never seen a "maximum" amount of fiber for babies and toddlers, just that it's not good to be filling them up with "bulk" which high fiber foods are, as then they are not hungry enough to get the rest of what they need in.
I think that what is important in this discussion is that we are not talking the general adult and child population but babies new to grains and toddlers who need lots of other things in their diets. A toddler does not have the same nutritional requirements as a 30 year old or even a 7 year old. To compare, no one would say that the regular adult population needs to drink whole fat milk. Most people would say the opposite in fact - we all need to be mindful of saturated fat in our diets and why would you drink whole milk when you can drink fat free skim milk - cutting that whole intake of saturated fat out of your diet. But because babies and toddlers need more fat than children and adults most people follow the guidelines that children drink whole fat milk until the age of appx 3years. So by saying that babies need to drink whole fat milk because they need the fat is not the same as saying that saturated fat is needed in everyone's diet and we should all be on whole milk. The fiber recommendations are along the same line - that babies and toddlers need space in their tummies for fats and if they are filling up on bulky fibrous foods they are not going to get in the other things that they need. It's not saying that whole grains are bad or whole grains are not good for other people. Just that you should be mindful of the amounts in babies and toddlers.
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True that - good thing I went thru this baby and toddler thing twice first before they got to be girls. ;D
I've always considered filling up on pasta or rice or bread (regardless of age) to be pretty much worse than feeding them a reasonable amount of whole grains. I know that's not what we're talking about here, necessarily, but "The Guidelines" don't really draw a line or differentiate between the two, which is why I've never really bothered with them.
And there is actually a significant school of thought that supports saturated animal fats in the diets of adults. I only use whole milk to make yogurt for the whole family, not skim or reduced-fat, and we cook lots of foods in coconut oil and have done since Nat was a baby (which is when I learned about the stuff). :)
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I think we also need to remember that a big issue is the wholegrain options limiting the absorption of essential minerals and the impact of this is something we just can't see on a day to day basis so saying so and so eats brown and seems fine is not really enough. Lack of minerals is something you wont know until it is specifically tested or it is too late so if you know brown is going to put children at risk of this surely it is better to err on the side of caution than regret it when mineral deficiencies cause problems in later years.
As someone who is very health consious and works in the health profession I find it hard to go against what I know about adult nutrition like low fat etc, but we have to remember babies are not just small adults they are physiologically different and as such have different requirements.
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So true that babies' nutritional needs aren't the same as those of toddlers, vs children, vs adults. That said, there's still a lot of disagreement on the subject, and if I have to pick between giving white rice/bread/pasta or doing without them entirely to avoid the brown, I'd probably go without them completely and rely on non-flour items if it were that big a deal.
By soaking the grains you can eliminate the hard-to-absorb phytate problem (the phytates being what blocks the mineral absorption), so that becomes a non-issue, so you can get the fiber (in whatever quantities you're comfortable giving, even if small), the minerals and vitamins, and the carbs without the sugar spike from the refined starches, and avoid the whole white-brown issue pretty much entirely. :)
As an aside, are you giving your LO a multivitamin supplement? Does it contain minerals as well?
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The soaking of grains can reduce the level of phytate but most grains (esp. oats and brown rice) don't contain enough of the phytase enzyme to eliminate it and unless the soaking is done when the grains are freshly ground it is even less effective as time goes on so while soaking is recommended for adults the mineral absorption is still an issue for children even after soaking.
We do give multivitamins containing a and d as recommended and these also contain minerals but supplimental minerals are less easily absorbed. Also while brown versions of things contain more minerals that is not the same as more minerals being absorbed and so feeding them does not necessarily mean children will benefit from these extra nutrients.
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Whole grains *can* be harder for people, not just babies, to digest and get full nutrition from.
Do you know how this would show in a child? Starting to think DS is reacting to wheat as still getting raw bottom where the poo has been on his skin and looseish bowel movements (although better now eliminated cows milk, carrots, oranges, soya milk) - still trying to figure out what the cause is. DS does eat lots of bits of our toast etc and it is wholegrain. ??? At least we are seeing the dietician a week on Friday so hopefully she may be able to offer help too.
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Here's a way to soak brown rice to reduce phytic acid levels to a minimum:
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/04/new-way-to-soak-brown-rice.html
I think it would work for other whole grains too.
Sure you don't want to bulk them up so they can eat other foods - but you also dont want to fill them up on empty calories either. obviously a diet based mainly on white bread/rice is not going to be nutritionally sound.
I totally disagree with the low fat theory and I think a lot of studies showing sat fat causes heart disease were confounded by trans fats. We all drink whole milk in this house. I reckon in 10 years' time the sat fat/ heart disease link will be discredited.
See here for an example:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/ajcn.2009.27725v1
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Whole grains *can* be harder for people, not just babies, to digest and get full nutrition from.
Do you know how this would show in a child? Starting to think DS is reacting to wheat as still getting raw bottom where the poo has been on his skin and looseish bowel movements (although better now eliminated cows milk, carrots, oranges, soya milk) - still trying to figure out what the cause is. DS does eat lots of bits of our toast etc and it is wholegrain. ??? At least we are seeing the dietician a week on Friday so hopefully she may be able to offer help too.
It's not out of the question that this could be a reaction to the wheat itself, which would happen if it's brown or white. Given the evidence you can always ask about maybe a gluten intolerance. Eggs are another common allergen. Is there any other reaction, like a skin rash, or just on the bottom? That might give you more info for the dietician.
Oh, and Lan, thanks for reminding me that I have barley and sunflower seeds I set to soak yesterday - that's breakfast this morning! :) I never thought to reserve the water, for some reason!
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Thanks Deb - funny you mention eggs as he used to eat them until he was sick once (only time had a tummy bug) and wouldn't touch them after that. We tried again the other day and he ate them but the next day he had funny spots on his face which we were wondering was related ...
In terms of the other food it just leaves a red, sore mark wherever the poo has touched his skin which clears up within a day or 2 with or without cream (he wears washable nappies but non-chemically disposable at night).
Will make a note in his red book about the gluten intolerence theory to remind me to mention it to dietician ....