17 weeks waking 1am 230 am and 4am every night where am i going wrong?

[occsbe]

Hello to you all

I followed the baby whisperer for my daughter who is now 2 1/2, she slep through the night from 12 weeks.

My baby son who is now 17 weeks has been unsettled at night from birth, but is a very placid little baby, at one point we did make 11pm after dreamfeed until 4am, but in the past few weeks has been waking up every night at approx 1/130 am then again an hour later and so on until 4am when I breastfeed him, where upon he sometimes goes back until 6am,but moreoften is unsetted until 630 when I breastfeed him again.
Here is our typical day

Wakes up between 630 and 7am - Breastfeed
Awake until 9am
Naps 9am til 1030, in his cot however does awaken after 45mins and I have to resettle him with a dummy
11am - Breast feed or bottle (200ml) depending
Naps1/ 130 pm to 230 pm usually in his pram as I have to collect my daughter from nursery, if in his cot I have to re settle him during this nap
3pm - Breast feed or bottle (200ml) depending
early evening nap 530 ish, but he does not always have this nap
6pm- Breast feed
630 - wash or bathtime
7pm - bottle feed 200ml
1030/1045- bottle feed 120-140ml
1am to 4am - awakes and is resettled with a dummy and I rub his chest, I only pick him up if he is really in distress, settle with dummy and back to bed, but this is continious from 1am to 4am every 1hour and a half.

Is he hungry, should I be giving him more bottle feeds formula and dropping the breatfeeding, or shall I start him on rice?

I am also trying to restrict his dummy use during the day and giving him a toy , but I always seem to need th dummy for naps and during the night.

Please any advice or help, thought this time would be easier and aftr 17 weeks havent had a full nights sleep very tired with running around after a toddler as well.

thanks ondicsam

[elmarie]

Popping this over to NW-so you can receive all the info and help you need...

Elmarie 

[Bryony]

Hi there!

OK so a few thoughts:

- if he's dependent on the dummy to go to sleep this may well be causing a problem. Most LOs wake up several times a night and hopefully just go straight back to sleep. However if he needs the dummy to go back to sleep then he will be stuck and will cry for you.  So if you think this may be the case for you, you either have to ride it out until he's old enough to find the dummy and put it back in himself, or you need to ditch the dummy - in which case there is lots of info on the Props board

- if he only sometimes takes that catnap he coudl well be overtired which is a common cause of NW. Does he refuse to sleep for this one?  What happens?

- also what time does he go to bed? If he's awake 6:30 - 7am ish I would aim for getting him into bed around 6:30 - 7pm ish

Hope that gives you a few things to think about!

Bryony

[occsbe]

Thanks for your advis, for the catnap do they have to be in their cots,or can they be taken in their chair etc?
What is the ideal time for the cat nap? he doesnt really have this until 6ish sometimes , its quite noisy in our house this time of day ( 5pm onwards), our daughter having her tea ( 2years old) etc

doing well with no dummy during the day, but needs it to settle to sleep, I am using the dummy during the night to send him off again but not sure if this is why he waked up, as he goes from 7pm til 1am without waking apart from briefly during the dream feed?



           

[Bryony]

The catnap should be the right amount of A time after the earlier nap - so if usual A time is 2hrs then it should be 2hrs after his last nap ends. Then bedtime a shorter time after the catnap ends - eg 1.5hrs at his age.  I wans't sure what his A times were from your routine. And no the cat nap is the one nap that does not have to be in the cot!  I am not sure what you mean by a chair, but certainly the catnap can be taken in the buggy for example....  its only a short nap anyway so it's less of an issue where it is! 

And I still thnk the dummy may  not be helping....!

Bryony

[occsbe]

thanks for your response.

have stopped using the dummy for when he gets restless during the day, the next stage will be to remove for naps and then for bedtime as I am also thinking this might be the reason.  I also have some other questions though,

At the moment he goes to bed 7/730 but wakes about 1015/1030 for his df, is normal I thought they were meant to be asleep?
Then he goes back to sleep until last night 2am, where by I put his dummy back in his mouth and he went back to sleep until about 330,  I then out it back in again and he went off until 5am whereby I fed him(breast feed), his cry at 5am was a hunger cry.

I have read the props section but am a bit confused on how I can eliminate his dummy in the early hours of the morning wihout meltdown as i have another child to consider if woken up?  I have given him a soft toy but he keeps putting on his head so this concerns me that he will leave it across his face?  I probably sound mad but just want to understand the best course of action to get rid of dummy and hopefully get some sleep!!

thanks

[Bryony]

Around 4 months of age some LOs do start waking for the DF - mine did too 
You could try doing the DF earlier to see if you can beat him to waking up?

In terms of the dummy - it's also really common around 4 months for it to become a prop, so I think you are right to try and get rid of it. However I don't have any personal experience of getting rid of one as we didnt' use one - you might want to post on the props board for advice. There are different schools of thought - a gradual removal, or just using it for night time and not for naps for a while, or complete cold turkey, depending on what you are most comfortable with

HTH!

Bryony

[occsbe]

Just to let you know an update, have removed dummy since sunday and now goes 10 until 4am, he has a cold at the moment so I am feeding at 4am but will look to go later once he is better.

[Bryony]

That's fantastic!!  At his age a feed at 4am is pretty normal - but as you say see how things are once his cold is better

Well done!

Bryony

[maevesmum]

I am in almost exactly the same position with 2 year and 17 week old.  He was going 4 hours between feeds and recently it has been dreadful.  We are on a very similar routine with similar nw pattern.  We also use a dummy - went cold turkey and it was working until OH put him in for a nap at the weekend with a dummy so feel like I'm back to square one.  Totally breastfeeding but he is a big baby I know your milk is made for demand but still secretly think he needs a big bottle of formula or some baby rice to help him sleep.