5 month old, so many NWs

[Tommys Mommy]

Hello

DS has been increasing his NW lately.  He has not been an easy sleeper since birth.  We extended him to a 4 hour EASY about 2 weeks ago.  He had a perfect week of 2 2-hr naps, evening catnap, bedtime at 8 with an 1100 DF and then usually no feed til 430-5, then starting the day at 7.  Then we went to my mother's house for a night.  He couldn't settle in the travel bed and ended up in bed with us.  Then on Easter, he was awake for way too long.  By the time we got home, he was exhausted.  That first night back was rough (to be expected).  That was a week ago.  His days took the week to get back to normal.  And his NWs have become really frequent!

He is exclusively breastfed, but has bottles (with expressed breast milk) with the nanny while I'm at work.  She is very good at keeping to his routine during the days, but even when he was on routine, his nights were terrible.  We have been attempting to start rice cereal over the last few weeks (here and there, he's not really that into it).  He often cries after we try to give him rice cereal.  He does fall asleep with a paci and so often NWs are easily handled by replugging him and rolling him onto his side (those are his sleep triggers).

he's actually EXCELLENT at falling asleep on his own.  We have a very good ritual and he always goes from awake to sleep by himself.  But he rolls onto his back and then wakes up without his paci and on his back.  He was sleeping 3-4 hours at a stretch without waking (before and after the DF) a few weeks ago. 

No lovie.  No teeth coming in (they would be bright red right?).  We're getting so exhausted that this morning I brought him into our bed at about 630 in the morning...which I know doesn't help with the schedule, but I was so tired! 

When he wakes at night, it starts with a fussing sounds but ALWAYS turns into crying.  So when he wakes, we usually run in there as soon as we can to stop the progression to screaming.  replug, turn over.  Wait an hour.  Repeat.  I'm wondering about the self-soothing that he's supposed to start developing now.  Does that mean I let him fuss and fuss?  Is it time to ditch the binky?  I know that time is coming anyway, but he is very good at falling asleep on his own if he has it.  He's very close to figuring out how to suck his thumb.

Sorry this is so long.  Thanks for your help. 

[Tommys Mommy]

oh...his naps have been shorter too.  45 minutes and then he either wakes or needs serious resettling.  especially on the weekends (I suspect its because he gets a 6 oz bottle of breast milk during the week and I never pump that much in one sitting unless I am super full...so I worry he doesn't get as much to eat during the weekends...). 

thanks

[closmommy]

Hey! I am no expert, but am going through something similar with my 5.5 month old!  I had 2 weeks of multiple wakings, and when I tried to let her fuss it out (not full blown crying), I was so worried about disrupting the whole household, that I brought her into bed to bf her - then she wanted to be in our bed all of the time, and I was getting NO sleep whatsoever!
Anyway, after support on this forum  - under 5 mon old increasing night wakings on the general sleep forum, I've introduced a lovey along with the paci, in hopes to help with the self-soothing when she wakes in the night - we're still working on it!  By no means are we back to the only 2 night wakings for feeds, but I feel that things are improving somewhat.
Hang in there!

[AcMorris]

Hello - I'm not an expert either but I just thought I'd show some support. I feel like I was the one writing your post! In our case (DD is 5.5) taking away the paci helped her to fall & stay asleep. We didn't realize what an impact it had until we took it away. It depends on the babies I suppose. She was waking for it and we'd have to get up to give it back to her. She's still having A LOT of night wakings (so many that I will probably posting on this board soon too lol ) Good luck!

[ZacsMumme]

Mmm it doses sound like the paci is becoming a prop.
It could be routine related too..can you post your EASy

[Tommys Mommy]

So today was a decent day

E 345
wake up 645
E 645 (breastfeed both sides)
A 7-9
S 9-11:20
E 1130 (6 oz EBM by bottle)
A 1145-2
S 2-245
E 330
A 345-435
S 435-525
A 530-630
E 630 (breastfeed both sides)
   700 (solids - rice cereal, approx 1/3 oz, today was the first day we've been able to get him to eat that much!!)
S 745 -

We'll generally do a DF between 10-11.  He's a big baby (was 9 pound 10 oz at birth) so I've always been concerned about satiety (especially when he started fussing at the end of breastfeeds around 3 months, something he never does with a bottle)...except that he gains weight just fine!  He's just never been a great sleeper.  I'm hoping the solids will help with that, except that I know they can disrupt sleep too...

On those ideal days, he actually would do a 2 hour nap in the afternoon as well and a 30-45 CN in the evenings. This was just today.  But he has always woken 3+ times per night.  His longest sleep to date was 5 hours.  I'm a tired new mama. 

My husband kept a log of the NW!  Last night they were 930, 1000, 1015, 1020 (I fed him at this point), 1230, 210...and then after that I lose track because that's when I get up for them (DH takes first shift from 10-2, I take 2-6 which is actually usually worse).  I did feed him around 340, so I'm sure he woke up then.  Sometimes it will take multiple repluggings.  So we walk in and 15 minutes later have to go back in.

Also thanks everyone for the support!  It's so so nice to hear about people out in cyber land with similar issues (I have too many friends and relatives with babies who were STTN at 9 weeks, 11 weeks or stay at home husbands who can help a lot more!)  I'm about to start residency in July and a lot more will fall to DH so I was hoping the sleep patterns would be a bit more predictable by this stage.  I know that every baby is different, but I wouldn't want to be causing more problems, i.e. using the binky.  The idea of life without the binky is a little scary because it can be such a wonderful get of jail free card.  but I guess it comes at a price!

Thanks again!

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs, some people only mention the 'good days' all LOs have something so try not to worry too much.

I do think that the paci is a prop. But if you want to keep it, that's okay too. We kept Zs, it helped a lot with his reflux and settling. However, having it does come at a cost sometimes and you may have to replug a few times in the night until LO can do it himself.

Lots of practice during A time and putting multiple pacis in the cot will help teach him to do it himself.

With the solids, when you start try something gentle like pear or pumpkin, rice cereal can constipate and cause tummy trouble.i would also offer solids in the morning so LO can digest during the day, solids too close to BT may be causing those ENW

Your EASY looks okay, again, ENW could be from OT. After that 50 min nap I would have tried BT by 7.

X

[Tommys Mommy]

Okay so I thought things might get better if we waited it out, but they've gotten worse.  He's doing strange things now like instead of going down, he'll spit his binky out, roll on his back and then smile (then resist being turned on his side, continued smiling).  Today was horrendous. 

Awake 400-545
Feed 445
Wake, Feed 800
A 810-945
S 945-1025 (40 min)
A 1025-11
E 11
A 1115-115
S 115-245
E 245
A 245-515 (attempted S at 515, cried and refused)
E 530
A 545-715 (happily played, not fussing til about 715)
E 720 (very fussy at this point)
S 730 (fell asleep on the breast - extremely rare)

It's now 805 and he's already woken once.  After I fed him at 530 (he had been fussing previous and I just thought he was tired, which would make sense) he was totally happy for over an hour.  Could this be a growth spurt?  The other night he fell asleep around 640 (exhausted) and woke up at 730 ready to party.  He stayed up until 930 and eventually fell asleep exhausted.  The ENW have turned into general problems with daytime sleep too.  It's now been 2 solid weeks of disturbed sleep.

He's 5 months 1 week and has been drooling like crazy for 2 months.  The bottom teeth buds are visible, but not red...could it be teething?

We started him finally on solids this last week, but he's not getting tons...it kind of depends on the day (today he got none because I didn't want to attempt it with the refusing nap stuff)....Yesterday he had 1 TBSP of rice cereal, but he had some smushed bananas this week too.  It could be the solids right?

And maybe it's a growth spurt?  I breast feed but for the life of me, I'm not sure if I'm making enough for him.  He's a big solid baby (95% at birth) so I used to pump in the night to make enough for the days...I stopped that about a month ago...he seemed fine, but maybe not?  I tried to supplement with formula after an evening feed the other day (2 oz formula + 1 oz BM...he's taken bottles with 5 oz BM and 1 oz formula before, but never so much formula). He totally rejected it.  I thought maybe he was hungry at night.  I'm still doing a dream feed and usually 1 night feed. 

He used to go down so easily...or relatively.  Some nights he'd need replugging a few times.  Some nights he wouldn't need it once.  Now we're getting to bedtime so exhausted that we can't even do our winddown (book, singing, chatting, I miss it!).

I had hoped that whatever disturbance in his little person would settle but it just seems to be getting worse.  He woke up at 6 am the last few days, which was early for him.  Today he woke up at 4.  Like, AWAKE! 

He hasn't slept well since early days but things really improved around month 2-3.  What should we do?  Just keep waiting?

He had a 7 pm bedtime at one point.  I was kind of happy to move it back to 730 bc I got a little more time with him in the evenings if I got home around 530.  I will have the nanny do solids with him during the midday this week.  As for constipation, he does seem a little backed up.  The night before last he held onto a poo for a day and a half (unusual for him!) and then had a huge poop right before bed.  If its the solids, then how long does it take for them to get used to it?  I thought about doing sweet potatoes as his next food (he's had the rice cereal and bananas, yes both constipating). 

You mentioned your baby and reflux...I wonder about that too.  He spits up a fair amount.  Never been diagnosed with reflux.  But it's something that happens multiple times per day.  sometimes right after he eats.  Sometimes an hour or two later.  I figured that was normal. 

(btw my husband is from NZ too.  We're going to Christchurch next month and I have no idea how that'll affect him.  We're there for 2 weeks....just long enough to get over the time difference and then we're back!)

I had really hoped he'd be closer to STTN by this stage.  His record is still 5 hours.  Which means my record is just short of that. 

[ZacsMumme]

He is definitely in a bit of an Ut/OT loop I think.
we had a hideous time at this age too...up to dropping the CN

Teeth do cause a lot of trouble...have you tried medicating before BT...does it make a diff?
There is a developmental leap...one at 19 weeks another a 26.. Yor LO old be going trough one early or late. Have a look here...what do you think? It sounds like developmental behavior this can last 1-2 weeks
http://www.thewonderweeks.com/index.php/about-the-wonder-weeks/your-babys-10-leaps/mental-leap-4 the other is developmental leap 5

I would swap out those solids for something more gentle. Solids can mess with sleep. Maybe try pear or pumpkin and offer it in the am only.

Re reflux...does it appear to cause discomfort when he spits up? Here is some more info for you.
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=654.0 what do you think?

Lastly,as hard as it is,that first nap needs to be pushed out..I would try 2hr A minimum to start with.
I hope you have a lovely trip to chch! Just go with the flown your trip...no point worrying about it all while on holiday

[Tommys Mommy]

thanks!  I'm trying to stay aware of the solids thing.  We actually did yams, not sweet potatoes (yams in America are more like kumara). 

Today he slept in a little bit and we dropped the CN.  It was actually a decent day in terms of his EASY.  A 2 hr and 1.75 hr nap.  His nanny is great about keeping him up so if I mention it to her to try to stretch out the morning A, she'll be open to that.  I already talked to her about trying to drop the evening CN. 

We decided he must need more to eat, so we started him today on a bit more (7 oz instead of 6 oz in his bottles, he has 2 during the day).  And yes, he's still taking the solids twice a day.  We are hoping the solids helps with satiety.  We did yams (in America yams are like kumara) as his next food.  In a few days, I think we'll go to apples or pears.  We're making his food ourselves and I'm not sure if pears are in season at the moment. 

So far today has gone fairly well.  He's just down to bed now and it's not as bad as it has recently been.  He's not going straight down, but he's not doing the smile, "I want to play!"  We're working on SLOWing down and working on the self soothing.  It's not CIO, but I'm letting him have a bit of a fuss and reach a cry before intervening.  Unfortunately, he still can't roll himself to his side, or put the binky in himself.  One problem at a time!  I'm pretty sure he's nearing rolling and I know binky retrieval isn't far, too.  So we might just wait it out. 

No, the sick-ups don't seem painful 97% of the time.  Sometimes they seem to make him uncomfortable, but not that often.  His threshold for sick ups just seems pretty low.  Which should start getting soon too I hope!

I had thought about the wonder weeks.  I think you're right.  I think this is a wonder week with a growth spurt.  That's my final thought.  Possibly with the 3-2 transition.  Which is more than enough for one LO! (and two exhausted parents). 

Tonight I am hopeful.  I will check back in in a few days and let you know how it goes!

BTW, congrats on your pregnancy!  As much of a challenge as this has been (especially with having to go back to work) I absolutely love being a mom and look forward to #2 (and #3!).  I mean, one thing at a time, I know, but still.  It's the best thing ever. 

[ZacsMumme]

Kumera is perfect, we had that too

I notice you say he only has 2 bottles a day. This is very little milk. When are his milk feeds?

Letting him Ty to settle himself is fine, working out when he needs you is key,and if he starts to cry for you going in and soothing as you are doing.

Good luck tonight and thanks for the congrats. I'm a bit scared but excited too

[*Kara*]

would swap out those solids for something more gentle. Solids can mess with sleep. Maybe try pear or pumpkin and offer it in the am only.

^^ This

As for bottle volume - at this age, you want to be adding an ounce to each bottle any time he is draining them... if he finishes those 7 ozs bottles, up them to 8 each