7 MO rolls over and wakes at night - should I PU/PD, shh/pat, or leave him?

[sarahmay]

Hi

I've always found great support on this site so i'm hoping someone can help me again now. My LO is now 7 months old and has previously been a pretty good sleeper. He'd even started going through the night so we thought we'd cracked it! How wrong! As of the past 4 nights, he has started rolling about all over the place in his cot and won't get himself back to sleep - last night we were up 5 times. He prefers to sleep on his tummy and in the night it seems he wakes up, rolls onto his back and then lies there grizzling til I go in to turn him back over (despite the fact that in the day he can roll back either way no problem). I am at a loss as to what to do - some advice I've read suggests leaving him to work it out for himself but this might result in him screaming his head off.  I'm not sure if he's just being a bit naughty and he knows that if he lays on his back crying I'll come in to get him. Should I try PU/PD with him, laying him on his tummy each time? Any advice appreciated!
Thanks
Sarah

[katie80]

I would definitely try not to keep going in to him to roll him back over.  If you do, he's likely never going to learn to do it himself.  It may take a few long NWs for him to get the hang of it, but he will learn, as he obviously already knows how to do it during the day.  Leave him to it, but if he does start screaming, then you obviously need to go in.  I'd start with shh/pat (do you use that to settle him at other times?) and really try to settle him that way.  If his crying escalates, you can move to PUPD, but I wouldn't lay him on his tummy each time, as then he's not really learning that he needs to roll back over.  How do you lay him down to sleep to begin with?  Does he fall asleep independently?  This is most likely developmental, but do you think there's a chance that he's UT, and that's causing him to wake at night?

FWIW, I don't think he's being naughty, he's just practicing a new skill, and since you've always gone to roll him over, he's just expecting that you will continue to help him.

[sarahmay]

Hi Katie

Thanks for your reply. Maybe he is UT and so wakes more at night - he did actually have a better night on sunday night after we'd had a day over at a friends and we were unable to get him take one of his naps, so he was certainly tired that night (i was convinced it was going to a be an awful night due to OT but he was ok!). Because of the times he's been napping, he has tended to have a CN around 5 for half an hour, just to stop him being super cranky by bedtime at 7. We'll see what happens tonight though as he had 2 nice 1.5 hr naps, which spaced out nicely leaving him 3 hours of A time before bed. He does settle himself to sleep at night, and during the day, but we do always put him down on his stomach. Today, for one of his naps, I put him down to sleep and he had a bit of a wriggle and ended up on his side, but i decided to leave him to it as he wasn't really crying so i wanted to see if he'd get himself back onto his front. After a couple of minutes all was silent and i peeped in to find him sound asleep on his side, so actually he obviously can sleep in other positions. We do use shh/pat and it normally works pretty well now, but he has always been on his front when we've done this so not sure what'd happen if tried it on his back as he just never sleeps in that position.  I guess i could try that tonight and see what happens. Generally he is a very good little chap and does settle himself well for naps and bedtime, it's just these frequent NW that're the problem......

[katie80]

Ok, so yeah a CN from 5-5:30 pm with bedtime at 7 is likely going to cause some issues in the middle of the night. I'd try hard not to offer it that late. Either do an early bedtime or only let him have about 20 min (before 5 if possible) to get him through. Will be interested to see how it goes tonight with the good nap day that you had.

Yes, shh/pat usually works best when they're on their side or tummy, but give it a try even if he's on his back. I thought the same for my little guy as he's always settled either on his side or tummy, but we've had some issues lately and I've had to do a bit of PD. I still lay him on his side, but when he's mad he'll roll to his back. I ended up sort of holding his hips and patting one of them while shhing and he eventually plopped his thumb in and went to sleep. And now that you know he can settle in another position, you can be confident in not just rolling him back. 

[sarahmay]

well, it was a much better night. Little chap woke up about 9.30 for some reason and did get quite upset but got him back to sleep after about 30 mins. he then slept soundly til around 3.30am, when he was up chattering away and rolling over in his cot for about an hour! I ended up going in and putting him back on his tummy (was too tired to attempt the shh/patting on back!), but after about 10 mins he started really crying and in the end i ended up feeding him (not so sure this was a good idea as we'd more or less knocked hte night feeds on the head) and he went back to sleep after this til nearly 8 this morning. Today we had a 2 hour nap this morning followed by half an hour from 3.20 to 3.50, then 15 mins in the car as we were on our way home at 6 - 6.15 (not ideal this one I know). Anyway, he was really nice and peacefully at bed time and went to bed with no fuss at all, so, again, we'll see what tonight holds! I guess we may just have to be patient and bear with it until he learns that he can roll back.

thanks for the reply.

[katie80]

So, he did it even without the CN. I'd say it's usually hard to really be sure it's UT unless you could get a few days in a row without a CN, and then there's days like you had today, where a nap in the car can't be helped. Also, I don't think I asked before, but is he teething at all? Sometimes LOs can wake and be uncomfortable enough that they can't get back to sleep, but not so much that they're miserable and crying.   

All in all, though it does seem developmental. So...

I guess we may just have to be patient and bear with it until he learns that he can roll back.

this may be the case. However, if it doesn't get better, come back and we'll see if we can't figure something out.

[sarahmay]

hi Katie,

Thanks for your thoughts on this. So another night which was all over the placet. As I said, he went down to sleep really well without a peep at about 7.45. I went to bed at 10 and maybe he heard me as he woke up then but I went in and gave a quick shh/pat (he was still on his tummy) and he was back asleep within a few minutes. However, he then woke at 11.30 and was not happy at all. I decided to feed him as we do still sometimes do a feed around this time (this is another question - is it confusing to him to sometimes get this feed and sometimes not - basically it depends when he wakes up - if it's around 11 ish i feed, if it's the middle of the night, i don't). Anyway, after feeding, poor little guy still wouldn't settle and after an hour of myself and DH trying to get him back to sleep we got him up again and gave some calpol, as he now seems to be coming down with a cold and a bit of a chesty cough. He went back to sleep after this but woke again at 5.30, and again wouldn't go back to sleep. At 6 i decided to feed him and then he started looking sleepy so i put him, awake, back in his cot and we both went back to sleep til 9 am. Although the lie in was nice, does mean our day has gone a bit out of the window as he has only just gone back down for his morning nap!

I think he may be teething - lots of dribbling and chewing on things, but he's been doing this for ages and no sign of teeth, so hard to say. As i said though, he does now seem to have developed a bit of a cough and cold which is obviously not going to help thngs. We're going to the clinic tomorrow for weigh in anyway so i'll get the nurse there to check on him just in case, as don't want it to develop into anything serious. During the day he is generally pretty happy though.
Sarah

[katie80]

Hmmm... it does sound like something's bugging him in the middle of the night. Even though he's happy during the day, teeth or a cough or runny nose always are worse at night. I think for one because they're lying down, so the pressure is different. And also, they're just not busy and on the go, so it's easier to notice discomfort. Hope you get some help at the clinic if it turns out to be something.

With regards to the 11 pm feed, I don't really see a problem with it. Several LOs are still having a DF at that age, and if it's random, I don't think he's ever going to wake up expecting it or being confused by it. That being said, I'm noticing I'm becoming a lot more lenient with feeding for my second child, so I'm sure others might have different advice.

[sarahmay]

Thanks once again for your thoughts on this. We had pretty much the same thing last night so I do think he's a bit unhappy during teh night. Had a 1 1/2 hour sleep in teh morning, followed by half an hour sleep in the pram in the afternoon from 3.30 - 4, then in bed asleep by just after 7.30. I heard him wake up and grizzle 2 or 3 times during the evening but each time he went back to sleep on his own wihtin a couple of minutes. Then proper awake and crying around 10.30 so we gave him some calpol and i fed him. After ths, back to sleep til around 3am, when he was awake til 4. There was no proper crying, just fussing so I went in every 10 minutes to give him a quick pat and tell him to go back to sleep, which he eventually did and woke for the day around 7, so i don't thnk this was a hunger thing. Will try to keep the sleeps during the day as they are for another few days and hopefully nights will settle down soon. Health visitor said it's just a litle cold/cough so nothing to worry about although as you say, this won't help the sleeping.

[katie80]

Ok, actually I think with only the 30 min nap in the pm ending at 4, BT was a little late at 7:30, so he was likely a tad OT.  I probably would've done BT no later than 7 pm, and aimed for more like 6:30/45 pm.  That being said, he resettled himself a few times, so that's great.  The 10:30 waking could have been OT or uncomfortableness, but it sounds like you solved it easily.  I don't think that 3-4 am deal is hunger either, I would think he'd get more upset if he was truly hungry.  Hopefully, once the cold goes away, you can get a little clearer picture of what's going on.  Until then, I think it's a good idea to keep on doing what you're doing.

[sarahmay]

an update - last night, aside from a little wake up around 9.45 when i patted him back to sleep within 5 mins, the little chap slept through from about 7.30 til 7am! So, hopefully the 'phase' is passing! I'm not kidding myself that it'll be STTN every night from now on, but at least I know he's not forgotten how to do it. Maybe he was just getting used to the 2 naps a day and it took a little while to settle in, as until a week or so ago he's been on 3 naps a day. Who knows?!
Thanks for your support.

[katie80]

That's great!! Long may it continue... And, you're welcome.