8 mo - long early night waking

[lily_layne]

Last night she was down for the count without a fight at 6:45.  DH said she fussed at 7:15 and rolled over and was back asleep.  Tonight it took a bit of patting to get her down but we haven't heard her at all.  Yay for progress!  Looking back, I'm feeling guilty for not starting her wind down until 7:30/7:45 - she must have been so tired, no wonder BT was a struggle.

She was up at 6 this morning and played quietly until 6:30.  I went in and fed her when she began to cry and put her down in her crib but she didn't go back to sleep.  Would it be worth trying feeding her right when she wakes up or would that create a bad habit?

I think a lot of Los at this age start to have one long and one shorter nap kinda in preparation for the 2-1 transition. 

I didn't think of that.  Would it be easier in the long run if I can get her pm nap to be the longer one? 
Today she slept 2 hours in the pm probably because she only had 2 catnaps in the morning because we went out.  It does make me think that capping the am nap is the way to go.  Today was:
WU: 6 but I didn't get her up until 7
S: 9:10-9:40
S: 12:15-12:30 (in the car)
S: 1:40-3:40
BT: Started at 6:55, asleep at 7:10
Based on that, how long do you think I should let her sleep for in the morning?  I'm thinking 1h and then 3 hrs A until pm nap since she happily did 2h30 A from at 30 m nap but please let me know if you think I'm headed for disaster with a plan like that.

[PaulsMom]

Yay for the better bt!  If she's SS then I normally don't worry too much about it.  Now don't feel guilty about her previously late bt.     It's not like these bubs come with instruction manuals!

Wrt feeding in the early am and putting back to sleep, I usually go in sooner but then I also have dd in my DS' room so I don't want her to wake him.  I do find this works best when she's waking up grumpy so if she's happy and chatty, it might not work (sorry about that).

Wrt nap duration.  I know lots of moms cap the am nap in favour of a longer pm nap.  I would follow your Los cues.  If she's tending to have a short am nap, then this is the one I would try to keep short.  An hour to 1 hr 15 is probably a good place to start with a 2 hr pm nap.  With my DS, his am nap was better so I ended up moving his am nap later and later until his pm nap was dropped.  Now a 3 hr nap is a monster nap!  I'm not sure if I would let her sleep that long.  I guess it would depend on if that nap will ruin bt or start to push it out too much. 

[lily_layne]

Another early start.  Today she was up at 5:40 and then went back to sleep until 6:10.  I got her up at 6:50.  Should I try pushing BT just a touch later to see if we get a slightly later WU?  In general, she does 11 hour nights unless she's really tired and then she might do 12. I hate when she's up early because then BT is earlier and on and on it goes...

Her am nap has been at 9:30/9:45 for the last 2 months.  Should I move it earlier and let her sleep a bit longer on days she's up earlier or would that encourage the EW?

Her am nap has always been the better nap.  Yesterday was just a one-off because we were out.  I was thinking it would be easier for the 2-1 to have a longer pm nap, but since that rarely happens, I'm thinking capping the am nap in hopes of a longer pm nap might be risky.  Your plan of pushing the am nap later sounds like it might work better for DD.

It's not like these bubs come with instruction manuals!

I would love it if they did!  It feels like we've been off track for months and it doesn't seem to be getting better.  Even with the earlier BT and 2-3 h of day sleep, DD still doesn't seem well-rested.  She's often whiny and is rubbing her eyes like crazy after 1h30 A time.

[PaulsMom]

You could try a 7 pm bt if her naps were decent, maybe 7:15 at the latest and see how she does with the wu.  My DS did 11 hr nights when he was a baby.  Some bubs just won't do more than that consistently. 

I don't have experience with the set naps so I will follow the A times and cues.  I find that if my dd is up early and if she wasn't super happy, then I find she can't handle the full a and I end up reducing it by 10 min or so.  She wil usually give me a good nap too since she's catching up. 

I have also found with my son that his sleepy cues were not consistent once he was older.  He would yawn and rub his eyes but he was actually bored!  If she's only lasting 1.5 hrs, try changing up her activity to see how she does.  You can keep it low key.

[lily_layne]

He would yawn and rub his eyes but he was actually bored!  If she's only lasting 1.5 hrs, try changing up her activity to see how she does. 

That sounds like that could be what she's doing.

  I find that if my dd is up early and if she wasn't super happy, then I find she can't handle the full a and I end up reducing it by 10 min or so.  She wil usually give me a good nap too since she's catching up. 

That's usually what I do also but I think I read on here that a long nap too soon can encourage the EW.  Did that ever happen with your LOs?

Today she totally threw me for a loop.  After a good am nap (1h50) she was whiny and miserable and rubbing her eyes like crazy after 1h30.  I tried to keep it low key but she was miserable so I put her down after 2h15 and got an OT nap but I was able to APOP a bit at the end   She just seems so inconsistent lately - I get totally different nap lengths from the same A time. 

I started BT a touch later but she was asleep quickly so she ended up asleep at the same time a last night so we'll see what tomorrow morning brings. 

[ZacsMumme]

Hun if she is teething that will mess up her A time signs too. is she teething?

[PaulsMom]

That's usually what I do also but I think I read on here that a long nap too soon can encourage the EW.  Did that ever happen with your LOs?

Hmmm....  I was going to say no but yesterday my dd gave me a 2 hr am nap and then woke at 6 am.  Of course her pm nap was horrible since it coincided with the school run and then we were out so I didn't get her down until really late.  I'm feeding her now and will put her back down and see how the day goes.

Agree with Sara.  If she's teething then things do get wonky, especially for the first few teeth.  She may not be getting a restful sleep at night and then she's catching up during the day but is still overall OT.  Does that make sense?  If this is the case, I wouldn't cap any naps unless they are going to push out your bt.  Try to keep a consistent bt of around 6:45 to 7 pm so she's going down earlier but not super early.  If she wakes at 6 am, try to resettle (either by feeding or some other method) to try to get her to get more night time sleep.  Just be mindful that if you feed, you may need to do a top up feed sometime during the first a, so she doesn't nap well.

[lily_layne]

I'm pretty sure there is a tooth coming.  Her cheeks are spotty and red and she threw up this morning which she does a lot when teething.  She was up at 6:15 but she's happier and less clingy this morning so we're off to a better start today.

She may not be getting a restful sleep at night and then she's catching up during the day but is still overall OT.  Does that make sense? 

This makes total sense.  I was wondering why she was waking up so miserable from an 11 hour night.  That would also explain the short A after her morning nap.

I don't think I'll cap any naps until this tooth is through.  We'll keep on with the 7 BT.  I think for now, I just have to deal with the 6 am WU - she just doesn't seem to resettle (that said I don't try much beyond feeding and putting her down to see if she'll go back to sleep).

[lily_layne]

After a few good nights we've gone downhill again.  On Friday, she went to sleep with only 10 minutes of patting and didn't wake or cry out at all   Saturday took longer to get her to sleep and then she cried out after 30 min and needed resettling at 11.  Sunday she took an hour to get to sleep and then cried out quite a few times through the night and needed resettling at 5.

I can see a tooth peeking through so I don't know if it was discomfort or OT.

Her day on Sunday was quite good:
WU: 6:30, get up at 7
S: 9:15-11
S: 2:10-3:40
BT: start at 7:10, asleep at 8:30

I wouldn't have thought 7:10 would be too late for BT with a long pm nap but I'm sure she was OT.  Would it be worth trying an earlier BT even with a good pm nap?

How long should I leave her to try going to sleep on her own?  I tried patting last night for 20 minutes but she just wanted to play so I let her be.  She chatted and played for 45 minutes and then cried.  DH went in and she went to sleep with a few minutes of patting.  Is it worth leaving her on her own until she cries even if it takes ages?  I'm torn between developing independent sleep or getting her to sleep quickly.

[PaulsMom]

Yay for some good nights!  I would still keep her bt between 6:45 and 7 pm if at all possible.  If she's teething, are you giving her anything for the pain?  Cutting teeth can be quite painful for some bubs (for my DS, the cutting wasn't as bad as the teeth moving around in the jaw). 

Wrt settling, I would recommend that you leave her until she's crying.  Happy and chatting before bed, I would leave her be (as frustrating as that can be!).  She needs to figure it out on her own. 

[lily_layne]

I do give her Tylenol when she seems in pain although it's hard to tell sometimes.  I gave her some Sunday night but it didn't seem to help.  I can't see the tooth today so it looks like it'll be a while yet before it breaks through.  I think she's the same as your DS - the moving seems to be worse for her than the cutting.

She cried out half an hour after she went to sleep last night, then needed resettling at 8:30, and cried out and was awake for awhile around 3:30 but she self-settled.  Another 6:15 wake up, so I think she really only got 10 hours of sleep last night.

Wrt settling, I would recommend that you leave her until she's crying.  Happy and chatting before bed, I would leave her be (as frustrating as that can be!).  She needs to figure it out on her own. 

We'll do this tonight.  Should we start BT a bit earlier because it will probably take longer for her to go to sleep?

[PaulsMom]

Teething sucks!  Def start bt earlier to give her enough time to self settle.  Hopefully things settle down for you.

[lily_layne]

It feels like we're back at square one these past few nights   I was so hopeful that the earlier BT would stop these shenanigans but I guess the answer is not so easy!

Last night she took 45 min to go to sleep (she cried on and off and I patted her at the end), cried out and self-settled at 8 and then cried and needed resettling at 8:40.  She cried out at 3:30 and rolled around for a while and then went back to sleep.

Today our day was:
WU: 6:15, I got her at 7
S: 9:30-10:55
S: 2-3:55 (She cried out quite a few times - teething pain I think. I woke her).
BT: Start at 6:50 and asleep at 7:05.  She woke up at 7:20, rolled and played, cried out once and then went to sleep at 8.  I was soooo frustrated that she woke up but I'll take the small blessing of her going to back to sleep on her own.  I was really tempted to go in and get her back to sleep as quick as possible but DH made me wait which I know was the right thing.

DH is sure she's UT, but I'm still leaning towards OT as she was rubbing her eyes like crazy from 6 onwards.  I'm not totally sure though because she didn't cry out when she woke at 7:20 and she usually does if she's OT.  What do you think?  She's also coming up on a ww, could that be part of the problem?

[ZacsMumme]

I wonder if she is UT too now she has caught up what a out stretching 1 A time? Teething is hard because it makes them seem tired and grouchy all.the.time

[lily_layne]

I wonder if she is UT too now she has caught up

That could be the case, especially since she's taken a longer pm nap the last few days.  We used to be lucky to get 45 minutes and lately they've been at least 1 h.  I think that grace period of good nights was totally her catching up from accumulated OT.  I'm just so unsure if this is UT or OT because this is how she behaved when BT was at 8 (although I guess this time she didn't wake up crying and did go back to sleep on her own so maybe this is different???) so she was definitely OT then and because she usually starts showing tired signs at 6 or 6:30.