11 month BF baby, 2-3 NW, Sleeps in parents room

[Julia88]

Hello!

I'm wondering if anyone would have a tip for me..

My DD just turned 11 months and is waking up 2-3 times a night. She is still BF and during night nurses 1-2 times.. (I have just been too tired to do wean her nights). Our routine looks like this:

8 am Wake Up + BF
9.30 Breakfast = cereal
11.30 NAP 1 =45 min - 1,5 hours (indoors or outdoors)
13.00 Wake Up (Latest)
14.00 Lunch
14.30 BF
16.00 NAP 2 = 2 hours -2 hours 15min (outdoors)
18.15 Wake Up (I sometimes have to wake her up)
18.30 BF or small snack
20.00 Dinner
21.00 Bath + BF
21.30 Sleep (goes down easily, I just leave her in the crib after our routine)

NW at approx at 1 and 5, sometimes at 11, 2, 5 (or some other times;)

I have tried to feed only from 1 side during the night, but usually she then wakes up one hour later and wants more. She falls asleep immediately if I BF at night. I know she sleeps a lot during the day, but our days are going really well, so I haven't done anything (except I don't allow her to sleep 3 hours pm nap).

One problem is that she is sleeping in the same room as we do (unfortunately we don't have a separate room for her..) This makes it hard to ignore when she stands up and screams in her crib.. and we can't do WI/WO. When I do P/d she is up immediately and starts crying again as soon as she can feel me tilting her back.. She is using the paci, but it doesn't usually help during night time.. (she will take it and spit it out). She has a lovie (a small blanket, which she will grab).

She might be having a bit of SA now, because she really prefers me to DH at night, and it used not to make a difference..

I'm also aware she ought to be going to bed earlier. She used to, but now she needs more A time, so the bed time has gradually been shifted later.. I guess I need to cap the am nap at 45? and the pm one at 1.5?, and then start transition toward a single nap..

She is a Spirited baby, very social and active and brave.. easily OT.

Does anyone have any clue where I should begin?

[becj86]

I think you probably do need to cap one nap - ideally you don't cap both unless you're capping the second at 2hr+.
Here's some info on the transition to one nap: 10/11 month old sleep gone wonky? Read this first!

Here's some info on PUPD - not sure on exactly what you're doing: How to PU/PD (inc age adaptations)

Are these wakings new? What are you trying to achieve?

[Julia88]

Hello,

Thanks for the reply! I'm sorry, I wasn't very clear about what I'm trying to achieve:

I would like to get rid of the NW altogether and get her sleep through the night (which she has never done). I would also like to get her night from 8 pm to 7 am. (not 9.30pm - 8 am as it is now)

History:
I have done pu/pd when she was 8 mo and then again when she was 9 mo. The first time she almost STTN (then from 8-7) after 4 nights. Then she got a pox disease followed by flu and then by upset tummy, hence the second pu/pd at 9 mo. This also worked in about 4 nights /she would cry for approx 1-2 hours each time, but did only wake up at 5 am on the 4th night. The next day were off on a 5 week trip to Thailand and the night got screwed up already on the night flight there... During the trip I BF her 2-3 times each night. It was also really warm - which made her nap only 2x 45 min a day and also made her very thirsty (gave plenty of water during the day). She started eating less during the day too - so I guess she shifted her nutrition intake more to the night. Since we came back she adjusted to the time change fairly quickly - in about 3 days - but then got flu + ear infection + allergic reaction to the antibiotic (vomiting) - so we have waited this out.

Last night I did pu/pd successfully on the first NW at 12 - She woke up again at two and the screaming was so bad I BF - I tried to put her back down after 1 side, but she started screaming again - so I ended up with both sides. She also woke up at 5 and 6 but I was able to settle her in the crib and the second time I only watched her sit down and go back to sleep by herself!! Then she woke up at 6.30 screaming and I BF. She fell back to sleep and slept until 9.30. Bedtime was late yesterday at about 10pm.

I read a thread here about someone who successfully diluted milk for the NF until they disappeared (can't find it now).. If the baby is hungry because she is used to eat 2-3 times a night, is is better to do the gradual dilution (I would need to express milk and give her a bottle at night as she is BF) or to do a straight NO to all NF and do pu/pd?

Also as our baby is sleeping in the same room, she can really see me when she stands up. Is this a problem? Would it be better for DH to do the pu/pd and for me to stay in a different room?

I'm determined to tackle this now!

[Julia88]

Hi,

I'm here to update on our last night.

Naps yesterday where good as usual - except she wouldn't go down for the first one. I was away so DH did Wi/Wo, with zero success - finally put her outdoors in the pram and she fell a sleep already on the floor of the entrance hall with her duvet-suit on.. Both naps had to be capped, first one at 1,5 hours (should have been earlier), second one at 2 hours.

Bedtime was normal 21.30, she went down like clockwork, even though we fed her too much oatmeal (thought to try this so she wouldn't be hungry during night..) and she did throw it up during evening BF.. nice. So she didn't have her usual full BF yesterday night, but plenty of oatmeal.

Our plan for the NWs yesterday was:
1. Try to settle in crib
if not working:
2. Pu/Pd
if starts really bad crying:
3. Diluted milk (75%) from bottle + back in crib with dummy
if not taking diluted milk:
4. Normal milk from bottle + back in crib with dummy

This is what happened:
1. BT 21.30
2. Between 22-23 - Two small wake ups related to loud outside sounds (she stands in crib crying - I do pd+Wo and she sleeps again)
3. 11.30 - She wakes up when we went to bed: standing up crying hard in crib. Wants me, not DH. I do Pu/Pd about 6 times and she falls asleep.
4. 1 am - Wakes up, stands up crying big, doesn't settle in my arms when picked up. Doesn't take either of the bottles (diluted or normal). She won't take her dummy. I rock her in my arms and then suddenly she gets quiet and starts drifting off. I put her back in the crib and she wines, takes the dummy and her lovie, moves around a bit, sits up - I put her down on her back - and then she settles. I walk out and stay away for 5 minutes. Then go back in and go to bed. All of this took only about 15 - 20 minutes.
5. Between 1.30 - 2 am she is crying a bit but settles herself. (I do nothing).
6. 2.30 am - Exact repetition of NW at 1 am (#4.)
7. Between 3 - 5.30 she is crying a bit but settles herself on the first one (I do nothing) on the 2nd one I do pd once.
8. 6 am - She wakes up, stands up crying big, doesn't settle in my arms when picked up. TAKES the diluted milk (4 oz). Cries some more, but settles in bed with 2 pd. All takes about 15 minutes.
9. 7.45 - She wakes up, it is morning and BF. She eats all she can get and seems very content.

So we didn't have hours of crying and pu/pd as I feared. Also, I was surprised she didn't take the bottle until 6am - maybe this was because she is so used to be BF?
Let's see how the next night goes..

This am nap she went down in her crib with just a little mini-crying (mantra cry?). I did not go in. She is currently sleeping outdoors and I will wake her up after 2 hours. (She sleeps incredibly well outdoors..)

I will update tomorrow on how it is going.

[becj86]

I think your nights are going to stay pretty rotten until you reduce the day sleep.


Glad you're making some progress on the feed reduction front - I think she may stop waking so often at night (and therefore reduce night feeds anyway) if you get the daytime routine a bit closer to age-appropriate.

[Julia88]

Hi!
Thanks for the advice.

Today I capped the am nap at 1 hour and pm nap at 2 hours 15 minutes. The first one she slept in her crib, second one in her pram. I'm not sure how many hours she should be napping in total? Her nights are usually 11 hours (never been longer, even when she was napping only 1,5 hours in total during our trip in Thailand).

Last night (the 2nd of this experiment) was better:
She slept solidly from 9.20 pm to 4 am.
Then she was waking up several (7!) times between 4 and 6 am, mostly settling herself without me intervening or then with one or two pd. At 6 am I gave her milk (75% milk, 25% water) from the bottle, she had 3 oz and calmed down.
She then slept from 6.20 to 8.30.




 

[becj86]

Usually at this age, babies would be sleeping a 45min catnap and a long nap of ~2hr (ideally not capped but you can cap it to maintain a reasonable bedtime).

The unsettled early morning could be hunger (as she gets used to fewer calories in the night , she should transfer them to the day) or from too much day sleep or even something developmental - there's a lot of brain development around the time LO's turn 12 months.

[Julia88]

Hello,

I want to thank you Becj86! Here is an update on how things are going:

There has been improvement! I have capped the am nap at 45 min/ 1 h and the pm one at 2 h. The two past nights have looked like this;

night 1 (3rd of this sleep training experiment):
9.20 BT Goes down like clockwork (I know still way too late, but I will address this as soon as I can)
4 am crying & standing up - I do pd once and Walk out (stay away for 5 -10 minutes, then go back and sleep in my bed)
4-5 am little bit on and off crying and self settling going on. At 5 I just go to her crib and rotate her 90 degrees + put the blanket back on and she falls into deep sleep
7 am BF (falls straight back to sleep and DH puts her in her crib)
8.20 Wakes up more BF

night 2 (4th of this sleep training experiment):
9.20 BT Goes down like clockwork
4 am (I can hear a 15 second cry - then quiet)
6 am Crying and standing up, seems very hungry I do pd a few times but then give diluted milk (70% milk 30% water) she takes 1 dl (a bit over 3 oz) (back to sleep in 15 minutes)
8 am Wakes up and BF (falls straight back to sleep and DH puts her in her crib)
9.20 Wakes up and BF

So last night was basically solid sleep from 9.20 to 6 am. That's the best we have had since early January!

I'm not sure what I should do with the morning wake ups - maybe they will sort themselves out when she has transferred all her night eating into the day? Or should I just not let her sleep after the first morning BF and move the whole easy 1.5 hours earlier in one go?

Also, I realized that cutting back a bit on naps gave us last night an extra hour (12 hours total) normally she sleeps 11. It could just have been a coincidence though. I have been so happy with the long naps as it was hard work getting her do them plus as she so easily gets OT and then very difficult to get down then.. But now I see she has outgrown her old schedule..

I'm just really happy all this has changed without hours of crying and constant Pu/Pd in the middle of the night!

[becj86]

should I just not let her sleep after the first morning BF and move the whole easy 1.5 hours earlier in one go?

This would be my approach. You know you have a routine that works for her, so stick with that another day or two and then just get her up at 7ish when she wakes, BF and start the day. Do your normal 45min nap and 2ish hr nap and do BT around 7:30 and you should be sweet. TBH, she may wake at 5ish if she's used to waking at 10ish hrs into the night for a BF, in which case if it were me, I'd BF but you're trying to wean all NF's, so try your dilution trick or shortening BF or whatever you think will work.

Glad things are improving