3 month old - are NW's ever from hunger if your LO wakes up 'gently'?

[Erin M]

NW 4.30 for about 25 mins.  Very calm/happy at least and got himself back to sleep gently but doesn’t this indicate UT – could he really be UT from yesterday?

Honestly, if it doesn't happen every night, I really wouldn't worry about it.  Could just be that he heard something or shifted into light sleep for a moment and woke up a little.  If he's getting back to sleep, don't worry about it.

E 8.30 Started falling asleep.  Desperately tried to keep him awake. Very tricky trying to get two E’s in to our long A.  Even just one in the middle (if he could last to it) might result in LO dozing and messing up the A time.  Any ideas? 

Ugh, that's a tricky one.  Other than trying to talk to him, keep his attention, taking him off if he falls asleep, I don't think I have any great ideas there. 

Odd day, seems like he needed more sleep than usual!  Something developmental, perhaps?  Hope your night is good!

[lynners]

Good night - no NW’s at all. 

S 19.15
DF 10.00
WU 6.37
E 6.45
A
E 8.15 OK because DS1 was around keeping him awake!
A
S 9.43 -10.18 (put him down at 9.37) Hoping we don’t need another A increase – hopefully a blip.  Maybe stick with same A tomorrow??)
E 10.30 -11.30 (Both of us half asleep!!!!  Not quite to plan but lovely)
A (Wasn’t sure what A to go with after that so decided to go for a walk so could at least get a 40m nap in buggy so I knew to do a 2 hour A after that.  As it was LO fell asleep in buggy and stayed asleep when I went back home.  Good stuff!)
S 12.40 – 14.40 (Had to wake him up so possibly developmental wanting so much sleep)
E 14.40
A
S
S 16.50 – 17.30 (A little tricky to get down but not too bad)
E 17.30
A
E 18.40
S 19.50 (Took a while for him to go to sleep)

... fingers crossed we'll actually be able to sort out a routine soon


 






 

[Erin M]

I'd definitely stick with same A tomorrow, he's already so high on those A times!  I think you're going to have to accept that you are going to have some variation as the days go on, but you seem to be getting a good handle on what works for him, which is really the important thing.  When you've got another one to plan around, it's inevitable that things will be a bit off sometimes, but you have to look at the day as an overall picture sometimes, not all the little things that go into it, yk?

[lynners]

Hi Erin,

Just a quick update my end.  All going pretty well here.  No NW's that have needed shushing or feeding.  WU have been slightly earlier than I'd like but still after 6.00am so not all bad.

I'm just concentrating on getting that first good nap in and we'll see how we go.  You're right that I need to be looking at the overall picture.

Can't believe it but think I'm going to up his A time again.  Last 3 days at same A time have resulted in firstly a 1.5 hour nap and then only 40 mins the next 2 days.  He's already up to an A of 3h 15m - mental.  On the plus when he has a short nap I've cracked the next A time so that each time he's had a long nap after.

Just wanted to ask you one quick question. 

Today was...
5.55 NW – Settled in 5 mins
WU 6.45
E 7.00
A
E 8.30
A
S 11.00 – 11.45 (put down 6.50)
A
E 12.00
A
S 13.55 -15.15 (put down 13.45)
E 15.30
A

..so currently I'm deliberating whether I should still try and get a CN in or go for an EBT.  As he has such a long A he won't be properly OT if I stretch him to 6/6.30 ish which is my temptation.  Will make for a much easier evening than trying to get in a CN.

What would you have done? - know you struggled with the CN too so I think I know what your answer will be.  Just worried that it's a very long A for last of the day and may affect the night.









 






 













 

[Erin M]

Yup, you've probably guessed I would always do EBT over the CN.  It was always so much easier for me personally.  I would think with those long A times, even after a CN, BT would get pushed so far and your day would end up being way too long.  Crazy long A times for that little guy, it does sound like he's due an increase again!

[lynners]

Yes ended up doing an EBt and the night was fine!  Much better.

Increased his A another 10 mins and he still only did 40 mins.  Aaahhh this is insane!  Going to a birthday party at midday tomorrow so really need to get him to have a long morning nap.  Think I might have to increase again.  Put him down at 3h 15 A and he fell asleep at 3h 20.  Can I really add another 10 mins?  Suppose I have to try and shush him off to sleep if gets OT.  What do you think?

[Erin M]

I assume he's waking from these 40 minte naps happy, right?  I guess add another 10 and see how he does, it doesn't seem to have a negative effect on him!

[lynners]

Yes he was waking up happy.

So yesterday I added another 10 minutes and got a 1h 45m nap.     He did seem quite cranky when he woke up though.  Not waking up crazy OT sounding but not sounding perfectly well rested either...so I thought I'd just try adding another 5 mins on to his A today

So today we had this -

WU and E 7.00
A
E 9.00
A
S 10.35 - 12.30 (put to bed at 10.30, when he woke up he was similar to yesterday so I guessed that even though he's had nearly a 2 hour nap, for some reason it wasn't actually fully restorative. )
E 12.30
A
S 14.35 - 16.20 (put to bed at 14.30, which is the A I would use after a 40 min UT nap (more like 2 hours A rather than his full A of 3 1/2 ish), and managed a good nap again.  When he woke up though he was a bit crankier than normal again)
E 16.20
A
E 18.00
S 18.25
.....

So I don't really know what this all means.  Gosh each baby really is different.  DS1 followed the average A times at each age almost exactly.  DS2 seems to be re-writing the rule book!

I don't know how he can end up OT/UT?? after such a long nap and what to do with the A to prevent it.  Clearly the first nap wasn't fully restorative otherwise a reduced A of 2h05m would have resulted in just a 40 m nap.

Any thoughts at all?  Would appreciate it.


 

[Erin M]

It could just be getting used to the new A time -- generally we say to give it 3 days before giving up and adjusting more.

[lynners]

Thanks for your response Erin.

I stuck to the same A time today, as suggested, and got a 1h40m first nap.  He seemed happy when he woke up so I assumed I would have to go for our full A (of 3h35m!) after.  Later though, something inside me thought maybe I should put him down after 2 hours, like I did yesterday after his crankier nap, so I did...and I got a long nap again. 

So maybe for some reason this crazy long A is only the A needed before the first nap, and then the second A is more like an average A for his age.  Just seems so bizarre.  Anyway at least we've cracked the first A for a bit and if we need to resolve the second A I'll just have to work on it. 

[Erin M]

If it works, don't question whether or not it's "normal".
Lots of LOs on here do well with a 2-3-4 hour A time (2 hours for the first, 3 hours for the second, and so on) and some do well on the reverse 4-3-2.  And some do the same for each A time.  The variations are ok, it could just be how he is.  My LOs always did a longer A time before bed, other LOs would be hopelessly OT of the tried that.  It sounds like it's coming together, fingers crossed!

[lynners]

Thanks Erin,

I always thought that if anything the first A tended to be less than any after.  Thanks for clarifying that's not always the case. 

[Erin M]

Nope.  Babies never read those books, despite our best efforts. 

[lynners]

Isn't that the truth! 

Have had a couple of tricky evenings and nights ending up OT at BT.

Today was

S/BT 18.15
NW 19.00 needed about half hour of shushing to sleep
EW 5.50 Was Mantra'ing for ages, eventually got him up at 6.40
E 6.40
A
E 8.20
S 9.35 - 10.15 Woke up cranky - OT
A
E 11.00
A
S 12.40 - 15.15
E 15.30
A
S 18.25
NW 19.00 OT and had to shush for an hour

As you can see today I went for an EBT rather than attempting to get a CN in there.  I had done the same thing the day before as LO had again woken up at 15.15 but after a 1 and a half hour nap (and as you can see resulted in an OT NW and an EW).  I thought though that perhaps because today's nap was such a long one he'd be able to last to the EBT (and also felt that if I even attempted to get a CN in there it would have been a really long day having started at 5.50) but it appears that he still ended up OT.     Wouldn't be surprised if we get another EW.

Not sure what to do if the same thing happens tomorrow. (!5.15 being the time we leave for the school pick-up so is a common wake-up time from his nap)  Feel like at least we know approximately what the first A needs to be (3h 35ish) and the 2nd (2h10ish) but struggle with the end of the day - clearly an A near 3 hours is way too much.  Maybe push for a CN at a much reduced A of something like  1 h 45m - can't imagine that working though particularly if the previous nap was over 2 hours.  Maybe cap nap at 2 hours so we don't end up with this situation ?

[Erin M]

I might try the capping at 2 hours -- seems like it would help sort the day a bit.

I'd stick with a lower A time (somewhere around 2.15 at the end of the day to see of that works, seems like he needs shorter later on in the day.