Author Topic: Downhill spiral in 9wk old - driving me to despair!  (Read 1195 times)

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Offline debetha

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Downhill spiral in 9wk old - driving me to despair!
« on: March 18, 2007, 17:19:37 pm »
How old is your child? 9.5 wks
What’s his/her daily routine? 3 hour easy, before ths week was feeding her more often as thought she was hungry, but she would cry at feeds, and have realised that she was actually finished, so was crying
What’s nap routine? naps each 3hr cycle by day from wake up at 7am. one long sleep of 2 hrs, has to be woken for next feed, was usually from around 11am, but moving more towards 2pm. Occ 2 long sleeps, but more often 1st 2 naps are 45 mins, and working on extending them to 1.5 hrs. 45 min nap around 5pm
How long are naps? See above
What's bedtime routine? Time? Well establised routine for over a month now. was 7pm but moving more towards 6.30pm as she is tired and becomes fractious. feed at around 6pm if looking hungry, then bath, massage, pjs, feed, and usually goes down very easily, drowsy but awake
Do you bottle or breastfed?? Breastfeed
How much? or how long? Usually 10mins first side, 5-10 mins second
If breastfed.. one side or both?? (at each feed) Previously just the one side (did this with my son, no probs.) could express 3oz easily from a single side in 10 mins. but she seems to cry of i offer her the same side on feeding, so taken to offering both. expressed for df tonight, 2 hrs after bedtime and had 3oz/ 120 ml in just over 10 mins from the 2 sides, but there was more there, stopped as she won't take that much at df
How many wakes per night? was 1-2 but esclating. waking before df now regularly, then another 3-4 wakings 3 out of past 4 nights. before that had a few days of 1-2.  last week she was also waking pretty often. Usually up between 9.30 and 10.30pm, then at around 1-2am, 3-3.30am, then every 45 ming to an hour/ hour and a half after that
What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up? wants to suck, will suck frantically on dummy if offered but looking for breast. will take a feed, but never huge (other than when she was waking just the once earlier this week), often falling asleep at breast within a couple of minutes. but just now (up from 3.30am) wanted breastnot dummy but not sucking as though she wanted a feed, but upset if i took her off - handed over to dh to settle with shush pat.
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry? not sure i know what a mantra cru is. I listen for her, but a definite cry before i go in. I will try counting next time though. SHe also seems to be fighting her swaddle - has done from birth in full swaddle (like tonight) until she frees a hand, so often swaddle her with one arm out as she accepts this and it stops her from startling.
What have you tried to settle?? Dummy, feeds, shush pat (she fights this). was aiming to work on daytime naps first to extend the short ones before tacklingnight time as doing both was getting too much. we were offering dummy in arms at night to settle before transferring her in place of feeds.
What do you do for A time and how long is it? She is up a total of 1- 11/4 hrs each cycle, remembering feeds are over in around 20 mins or less! We talk, sing, a few mins tummy time and/ or mat time, or in the swing looking at the toys there (but not usually swinging). or hang laundry outside. went out after long nap to visit past 2 days as hadn't been out much at all this week to work on EASY. out for around an hour only. but big crowd where we were today, yesterdays outing was v low key.
Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones? No. had her immunisations on Wednesday, low grade fever for a couple of days, given paracetamol. Slept from 11pm-5.45 am on Wednesday, getting worse daily since!
Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months) No way!
Do they have a prop? If so what is it? nothing fixed. have only introduced dummy in past 2 wks s part of wind down, btu often she doesn't need it so don't offer it. was using in a lot earlier in week for naps, but stopped that. now use it briefly as wind down but usually out before going into cot if used at all, or if she wakes early from nap to stall next feed - nut aiming to use shush pat instead.
Do they have a lovie? Not yet, too young

Additional info: returned from 5 day interstate trip earlier this week, not on EASY before Tuesday. Wakings then v similar to now, but a couple of weeks before had been only 1-2 times per night plus df, and settling easily. 2 hours behind us n terms of times. went to usual bedtime immediatley.

SHe has just gone off to sleep now it has taken an hour of dh using shush pat, although had to pick her up twice in that time and shush pat, to put her down drowsy (first time she cried more, so had to pick up to calm her. second time ale to continue shush pat in cot till asleep)

Need help - when shoudl I feed and when should i not overnight? whatabout the waking before the dreamfeed - ideally i would like to get an early night in and let dh give ebm, but if she wakes up she gets upset unless she has a bf. takes bottle occassionally during day and fusses a bit but not as badly as at night. as i have said, was aiming to work on day sleep, but getting so tired, and trying to lengthen the day sleep is meaning i can't nap by day. plsu have to get my 3 yo from kinder at 3,30pm which is prob going to coincide with the one long sleep... will see if my mother in law can help with this again this week but don't think she will do it every day...

Thanks as can't cope with this for much longer, and would appreciate a definite plan of action
deb


Offline debetha

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Re: Downhill spiral in 9wk old - driving me to despair!
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2007, 18:13:08 pm »
ans awake at the 45 min mark. shush pat for 10 min and she drpped off, i continued to shush pat as per book, she woke up after a few mins even as i was still doing it. showing signs of hunger so now feeding her ( she is feeding well). but when 2 feed and when not?


Offline momofclaire

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Re: Downhill spiral in 9wk old - driving me to despair!
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2007, 16:49:28 pm »
I may have missed this but do you do a dream feed?  It sometimes really helps babies.  I think that at 9 weeks your baby probably still needs 2 night feeds if you aren't doing the df and maybe even with it.  At that age I would feed if she wakes 3-4 hours after the last feed.  Repeated waking can mean hunger.

How did last night go?  Can you post yesterday's entire sch for us?

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Offline Colin Macs Mom

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Re: Downhill spiral in 9wk old - driving me to despair!
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2007, 17:02:23 pm »
I think she has developed a suck to sleep association. I would stop using the paci now, before it becomes a prop and then you have a new problem. At her age she will genuinely need at least one night feed which is normal. Are you dreamfeeding? If so, I would expect her to need another feed around 2 or 3 am. If not, then I would expect her to need a feed at 11 or midnight and then again around 3. Of course, you should look for signs and feed based on need rather than time. You also want to make sure she's not falling asleep on the breast and that you are putting her back down awake - at least mostly.

Can you clarify how you're doing shhh/pat? From your second post it sounds like you're continuing after she's asleep?

Quote from: debetha
wanted breastnot dummy but not sucking as though she wanted a feed, but upset if i took her off - handed over to dh to settle with shush pat.

This right here may be key for you. Is your DH really willing to help out at night? It can make a huge difference for a breastfeeding mother to back off a little with night wakings and have DH do most of the resettling. LO will "smell" you and want to eat and DHs don't have that problem.  ;)
Jessica
Mom to Colin Ronald, August 18, 2005
Spirited + Reflux =  :o


Offline debetha

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Re: Downhill spiral in 9wk old - driving me to despair!
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2007, 23:02:32 pm »
Thanks guys. Yesterday and last night much better. Perfect in fact until mid afternoon, when the wheels kinda fell off, and much beeter through the night
Awake and E: 7am (after last feed 520am). Also offered again at 8am to ensure she was fed in order to sleep well
A: with dad and big brother - activity mat, and getting dressed for kinder
S: to room 0805, in cot swaddled 0810, asleep 0820. No dummy, minimal patting to settled. SLept 1hr 40 min to 10am!
E:10 am, 10 mins from each side (offered 2nd side again at 1030 after nappy change)
A: mobile above change table while i put clothes away, activity mat, cuddles and chat with mum
S: 11.10 phone rang just as I was about to start wind down at 1105, next thing i know she has fallen asleep in my arms in kichen. oops! swaddled and tf to cot no probems, w2s by stroking face at 30 mins, slept 1hr 20 mins till 12.30
E: 12.35 20 mins, plus offered again at 1300 (which would have een normal feed time). Would have held out but she was hungry, and has such short awake times. plus moving half an hour earlier allows naps to fit in with school pick up and easier cluster feeding later.
A: as above plus laundry - sat under line outside in rocker
S: Unsettled from about 1.30, trying to extend A time, so to room 1.40, swaddled and in cot, lay there happily until drifted off to sleep at 1.50. Tried w2s but eyes open as i went in to do it, at around 2.25 must have been a little off with my timing. Unable to resettle (tried shush pat for 10 mins and then offered dummy) so into stroller for walk to kinder. This is where it all went a bit pear shaped. napped in stroller on way home around 3.50-4.10. Fed at kinder at 3.35pm, and then again at home at 4.10. Tried to settle in cot at 5pm for catnap, she was obviously tired, but hard to cook dinner for 3yo, see to 3yo and settle so gave up after 20 mins, tf to sling, slept there for 30 mins till 6.15pm. Both kids bathed at 6.30. Milly cluster fed at 5.15, then after bath at 6.45. bed 7pm swaddled, but unsettled, kept waking, so had to bring out of room to put 3yo to bed at 8pm. husband returned 8.05, so down in cot and settled by 8.15 (cuddles and shush pat in arms till drowsy - then to bed) woke again 9pm, reseltted by dh
DF at 22.15 EBM in bottle by dh but he struggled to get 30 ml into her!
Stirred at midnight, but resettled herslef. WOke and fed 3.20am, settled in cot awake but quiet and content 3.45 am, put self to sleep
Awake and fed 6am (one side only) but stirred again 6.30 so offered second side.
Back down 7.30am in cot, 45 min nap (had to do school run so didn't try and resttle.
fed again 0900, back down again 0950 - swaddled, cuddles in arms, dummy sucked for less than 30 secs, eyes looking heavy, transferred to cot, and left her to sleep (quiet and drowsy). planning w2s at 25-30 min mark
SO making progress, and feel as though the nights are nearly back to where we were before
Minimal dummy use - not for first 3 naps, offered in stroller as whingy, and a bu at bedtime, mainly out of cot. None during night. So sleep sucking association unlikely, or weakened.
DF a problem as showing reluctance for bottle whether awake or asleep, will try another few nights and then i will breast feed again if need be. would be nice if she took bottle as planning 1-2 mornings of work in a monthish.
Seem to be on 6-6 schedule today which is ok as will work better with school runs, and ds up at 6.30ish anyway.
My one concern is the short a times, she gets tired easily. but the net effect is with 1.5hr naps, then this throws the 3 hr easy out. can feed at 3hr mark, but then she still wants to go down just over an hour after waking, so the whole thing falls apart. Should I just foloow what will effectively be a 2.5-3hr EASY, or encourage her to sleep more than 1.5hrs?
The only other thing i have done is cut out dairy (as helped before with colic/ unsettled behaviour)
Cheers
deb


Offline debetha

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Re: Downhill spiral in 9wk old - driving me to despair!
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2007, 23:04:41 pm »
sorry kinda long winded. should add that fine with one waking overnight plus df (which before we started EASY properly we were getting). And DH is pretty wonderful and will settle her if she is less than 3 hrs post feed. but feel bad if he is up too much as has to work with a decent drive there every day
deb