7MO waking after 4.5hrs of last feed!!

[sudhinautiyal]

Hello, i am hoping i will be able to get some help from this forum.  I have a 7MO who has so far been a textbook baby. SHe has been sleeping thru nights since she was  4months, sleeping at 11pm and waking at 5-ish. Now she sleeps at 8 and wakes up at abt 7am, and is then on an EASY routine, feeding every four hours or so and taking three short naps (the duration of each nap varies from 30mins to 1hour) during the day. In the night she sleeps at about 8pm with a  10-min bedclothes wearing / diaper changing/story routine. SHe is on breastmilk. DUring the day she normally feeds on one side per feeding, for about 10minutes. DUring the day she doesnt sleep while feeding but at night i nurse her to sleep. I would like to keep it like that if possible.
She was sleeping with us in our bed but 1week ago I have shifted her to her crib.

Problem : Over the past one week or so,  she has started waking up for 1.5hours at night after 4.5 hours of the last feeding. So the first day she slept at 7.30pm and woke up at 12am. I introduced a dream feed, now she gets up after 4.5hours of THAT feed. Dream feed at 10pm, wake up at 2:30am. Dream feed at 11pm, wake up at 3:30am. Dream feed at 12:30am wake up at 5am. Each day she still wakes up at abt 7am in the morning. PRior to her sleeping in the crib, she would wake up at 4:30am every morning, i would nurse her, and she would sleep in 10min.
But yes, even while co-sleeping she had started (a couple of days) waking and not sleeping for an hour or so.

Now whenever she wakes up, she plays with herself in the crib for about 30min. THen she starts to cry, after which I have been doing the PU/PD routine for the past three days. After PU I take her on my shoulder or in the cradle position. On day one of PU/PD she took 1hour to get back to sleep. Day 2: one hour. Yday was Day3 and she took 40min from start of crying to sleep. I am not taking play-in-crib time into these times.   
I am at my wits end wondering what i should do. Is she really hungry at the time or not, i have no idea. yesterday she sucked at my arms at PU and i have a bruise on each arm to show for it, she sucked so hard.

She has never used a pacifier. I tried to introduce one to her four days back and she spitted it out with a strange "what-on-earth-was-that" look on her face.

She stands up holding on to crib wall for support. She crawls well. No teething yet. She is a lovely, happy baby during the day and at night as well, it is just this new thing of waking up at night.... i just dont know what to do, pls pls help !!!

[Layla]

Hi there & welcome

Can you please tell me what her daytime schedule looks like? What time are the naps, feeds, etc....


Layla

[sudhinautiyal]

oops forgot to add that my LO is also eating solids thrice a day (banana/ apple/sweet potato/rice/ veggies etc) in addition to the b/milk. Should i increase the amount? will that help her to stop the night wake-up? HELP!!

[sudhinautiyal]

Hi Layla, Her schedule is:
She wakes up at 7am, b/feeds, plays, sleeps at 9:30am.
Wake-up at 10 or 10:30 (can vary). Massage. B/fast. Sleep at about 1pm.
Wake-up at  1.30 or 2pm (if she sleeps for 30min in morning then 1hr in afternoon and vice-versa). Bath. Lunch. Sleep at about 4pm.
Wake-up at 4:30~ 4.45pm. Dinner.
Sleep at 8pm, with breastfeeding prop. Dream feed -- I have tried feeding at 10/11/12:30 as detailed in my earlier post.


 Basically i maintain 4-hourly nursing with additional breakfast/lunch/dinnerof fruit/veggie etc alongwith nursing. I also put her into her bed after 2.5hours of waking up.

thanks/ sue

[sudhinautiyal]

welllllllllllll ... it is 5:30am here... and i had fed my 7MO at 12:30am. tonite was nite 4 of pu/pd... or it should have been. baby gave a whimper at 5:15am. i did pu and patted her and she WENT RIGHT BACK TO SLEEP. gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa !!!! now i cant sleep i am so astonished. ze world iz spinning and i cant get back to sleep till someone tells me zat zis is for true!!!

[Layla]

I am sorry for the delayed response. Been having some issues with my lo as well & not able to be online as much.

Ok, looking at the schedule, I think she might be a little overtired & needs more daytime sleep. You want her taking 2 long naps or 2 1-1.5hr naps & a catnap. When she wakes 30mins later what is she like? crying or just laying there? Also you say she is BF every 4hrs but your routine only shows 2 feeds & the lunch & dinner. Is she having milk at lunch & dinner as well? She needs to be having milk feeds 1st (every 4hrs) & then if there are any solids they need to be given about 1hr later after the BF. So ultimately try to aim for something like this:

7am - wake & BF
8-8.30 - solids
9.30-11am - morning nap
11am - BF
12ish - solids here or at dinner
1.30-3pm - afternoon nap
3pm - BF
5:30-6pm - catnap
8pm - BF & bedtime

If she is taking 2 naps then:
7am - wake & BF
8ish - breakfast
9.30-11.30 - morning nap
11.30 - BF
lunch
2.30-4/4.30 - afternoon nap
BF upon wakening
7ish - BF & bedtime

At 7 months, she really only needs 2 solid meals & if you give her solids 3 times a day that could be interfering with her milk intake, thus causing her to wake at night & be hungry. We only went to 3 solid meals at around 8-9 months. So I don't think you need to increase solids, in fact I would be working more on her feeding less solids (or at least reduce to 2 meals) & to take more milk in. Does she take both sides?

Let me know what you think

[sudhinautiyal]

hi layla,
thank you for your response and i do hope you are able to work out issues bothering you..
well, baby doesnt seem to want to sleep for longer than 1 hour at a stretch during naps. she wakes up fresh and smiling from them.
she usually takes three naps a day. one is 1hour long and the other two are 1/2hr each. should i still work on increasing them? pls do advise, thank you very much.
re: solids. i give her fruit in the morning (pureed apple or banana or mango) then some veggie in the afternoon and then some fruit again at dinner time. yes i do bfeed her about 45 min before each meal.

she rarely takes both sides while bfeeding. only one side and that too for abt 10minutes. but during the night she takes both sides for a total of 20-25minutes.

a million thanks for your responses..
sue

[sudhinautiyal]

hi Layla, I have fed baby two solid  meals today , one at breakfast and one at dinner. BF before mealtimes and 4-hour intervals as well. I must say, however, that I constantly felt she might be hungry still.  I will DF her again at 12:30am today, like i did yesterday.

pls do let me know how and when i can work on changing the time of the DF-- i would like to prepone to 10~11pm ideally, if possible.

I also made her sleep for 1.5hours in the afternoon and a short nap in the evening. The morning nap i couldnt extend though. will definitely do that tomorrow.

fingers crossed and hope she doesnt wake up tonight.

[Layla]

Thats great that you were able to extend her afternoon nap... 

DF - well most at this age are weaning DF's so I would let her sleep until she wakes & feed her then (if its been 5-6hrs later). You could try to lessen the amount you give her so she takes more in during the day.

I would work on feeding every 4hrs so she takes more milk in.... & work on naps.

How did last night go?

[sudhinautiyal]

hi layla, well last night (night5) was not as good as night4. i fed baby at 12:30am and she woke up at 5:30. it is 6:30am now, and no sleep or any chance of it at all. she has woken up bright and shining for the day. should she now sleep at 8am or at 9:15~9:30am which is her usual time for first nap?

noted abt the DF, however she was waking up 4.5hrs after whatever time i had fed her (DF i.e.) which is what brought me to this forum in the first place. i will tonight DF at 11pm (baby sleeps at 8 pm with bfeeding) and see how it goes and report back to you tomorrow, hopefully singing alleluia.

i will work on naps from today. re: feedings she never stays on for more than 10min per feed except at night before sleeping. wonder if that is enough for her? i am already feeding her on a 4hr schedule.

thanks once more.... sue

[Layla]

10mins is a good feed. At night is she really feeding when she is staying longer or does she just keep sucking & using the breast as a prop???

The morning nap - try somewhere in the middle so about 8.30-8:45am.

[anyamom]

success with the morning nap!! 1.5hrs achieved!!!!
it wasnt as difficult as i had thought it would be. i put her to sleep at about 8:40 and then kept patting her down everytime she started to wake up once she had crossed the 45min sleep mark. once she had completed 1.5hrs of sleep, i let her wake up! so that is that. i will continue like this till she naturally sleeps the full 1.5hrs on her own. ditto for the afternoon nap as well.

the night feed... well i am not too sure. tonight i will make a note and let you know tomorrow morning. but i will df tonight at 11pm and then cross my fingers and toes...

and again, many thanks. it is such a relief to know that there is someone who speaks my language and understands what i want to be done and is guiding me along the way. it is a huge huge HUGE support. you cant imagine how much i look forward to this feedback from you... many thanks again.

[anyamom]

oops.. this is me.. sue .. and that is my daughter anya !! have forgotten the password for the other userid, so have created a new one...

[Layla]

Sue - excellent on extending that nap. Try not to pat her to sleep at the 45hr mark too often... sometimes stand back so that she doesn't get too used to it... but I think what you did you did today is GREAT!!!!

Longer naps & a better rested baby often means good nights

Keep me posted

[anyamom]

goodiee !! thanks !!    all noted !! will get back to you tomorrow morning now!!
 

[anyamom]

ok, so i am doing something wrong... i guess i didnt feed her properly or something? no idea what i did wrong, but baby woke up TWICE last night. once at 12am and then again at 5am. i fed her both times, just to see how hungry she was... she did feed well at 12am but at 5am she hardly nursed. her sleep/ feeding schedule yesterday was like this:
wake-up 6:45
BF - 7am
nap - 8:40 - 10:15
bf - 11
solids- 12
nap - 1- 2:30
bf - 3pm
lunch- 4pm
nap - 5:35-6:10
bf - 7pm
bf- 8pm
sleep - 8:30pm
DF- 11pm


and then she woke up at 12am and i fed her. and again at 5am. between 12 and 5 she kept making these uncomfortable noises and kept moving from one edge of the crib to the other.

this morning she woke up at 6:20am. i breastfed her at 7:20am and both of us slept for a while. i was so groggy, i had no idea when she woke up again and my husband took her out of the bed so i am just going to put her for the morning nap at 9:15am.

wonder what i did wrong? i shouldnt have fed her at 12am? pls do advise! thanks a ton/ sue

[anyamom]

HUGE amount of fuss in morning nap. kept at it from 9:15 to 9:35. 20 min of fussing instead of the normal 7-8min.
we seem to have gone back a few steps!!! will let you know how the rest of the day goes as well...
ok, so there are some good times and some bad times...

[Layla]

How are you doing? I was also thinking that she might be ready to drop the catnap. Do you think she would be able to handle more A time time in the afternoon... so something like this (I already posted this a few posts below):

7am - wake & BF
8ish - breakfast
9.30-11.30 - morning nap (or it could be 1.5hrs long)
11.30 - BF
lunch
2/2.30-3.30/4 - afternoon nap
BF upon wakening
7ish - BF & bedtime

[anyamom]

hi layla,
i am following the first schedule posted by you with two 1.5hr naps and one 30min nap. it is a fight to make baby sleep for 2hrs twice during the day. also she is verrry sleepy about 5pm and i would like to take advantage of the same

i have added one bf at 7pm (to substitute the third lot of solids that i have now stopped feeding to her as advised by you) and a df at 11pm.

but i have done something wrong, anya has been sleeping at 8pm and waking up at 5am yesterday and again today.
pls advise should i bfeed her at 5am as well? or just pu/pd?

her normal waking time was 6:30 and i would feed her at 7am, letting her play in the crib for 15min and then potty time for 15min. now... i just dont know. she is not teething yet, i see no special irritation / swelling/ crying. i have no clue why she has changed her sleeping pattern. i do hope we are able to get back onto track.

having said that, it is SUCH a relief to have her sleep 1.5hours twice during the day. i just lie down next to her crib and read, while she sleeps. that is my quiet time... if i could conquer the nights, ah i would rule the world!!

thanks / sue

[Layla]

2-1.5hr naps & 30min catnap is perfect. If she is not fighting the catnap & her bedtime is reasonable then keep those naps for now.

What have you done for the last 2 days when she woke at 5am? I would probably do pu/pd rather than feed her. Or you could feed her but not the full meal so she is still hungry at 7am. Ideally she "should" be sleeping through with a DF at this age so I would do pu/pd or shh/pat (whats working for you)

[anyamom]

hi layla,
baby woke up THRICE during the night yesterday. we were late getting her to bed she slept at 8:30 finally.

 i read elsewhere on some other post that sleep time should be 12hours after wake time. do you think that i should try putting anya to bed at 7tonight? she normally sleeps at 8pm. if yes, should i prepone the bed time in instalments of 15min or straightaway prepone to 7pm tonight?

well , the past two days i have fed her at 5am. yday df was at a reasonable hour of 11pm. i didnt feed her at the other two times that she woke up (12am and 3am), just shh/pat and pu/pd combo.

do let me know what you think abt an earlier  bedtime. i know our problem is not very drastic , but i do want to help baby sleep thru the night, which is what she had been doing till about a month ago!

[Layla]

If she is taking a catnap from 5-5:30 then she needs to go to sleep at 7pm. The av night sleep is about 11hrs with 3 naps. Try putting her down at 7.30pm over the next few days & then 7pm. All depends on when her catnap ends. Try not to keep her awake for any longer than 2hrs after catnap... that is, in bed by the end of 2hrs.

[anyamom]

hi, will do as per your advice below. last night's performance:
bed at 7:30pm after BF
DF at 10pm
BF at 1am
wake up at 5:45am

between 10pm and 1am baby kept tossing and turning, even ending up banging her head on the crib walls a couple of times. 
once i fed her at 1am, she was a little less fidgety in her crib. i didnt pick her up after that, only shhh from my bed (her crib is at one end of our room) a few times.

why do babies toss and turn at night? could it have been gas? a couple of times she cried and even sat up.

[Layla]

Yeah, thats very common. They usually have 3-4hrs of deep sleep at the start & the rest is usually lighter sleep where they toss & turn & then the last hour or 2 is deep sleep again

[anyamom]

hi layla,
yday baby took two 1.5hrs naps (9:15to 10:40am and 1:20 to 3pm) and then just refused to sleep for the evening nap, even though she seemed to be sleepy.

but i put her to bed at about 7:20pm. she woke up at 8-ish to finish the feed that she had slept in the middle of , so i fed her.
then no DF. she woke up at 3am and i fed her at that time. then she woke up at 6:15am for the day.
i will again put her to bed about 7:30pm tonight and see how it goes during the night...

thanks for your help/ sue

[Layla]

Sue, if she's not taking the catnap try to put her down for the night earlier - her being awake till 7.30pm is too long (if her nap ended at 3pm)... try not to let her stay longer than 3hrs... so I would have done a bedtime of 6/6.30pm

Good luck tonight

[anyamom]

hi layla,
thank you for your advice, all well noted...  todays naps have been like this:
nap 1 : 9:15-10:45am
nap 2 : 1:30 to 3pm
nap 3 : 5:30 to 6pm

i will put her to bed around 7:30pm today and hope all goes well.

i went back all the way to the start of this thread... and noticed that one achievement has been that thanks to your advice, baby has now started to take two 1.5hr naps everyday!!! so thanks a ton for that.

just for my info, here are three more questions (!)
1- are two 1.5hour naps (9:15 to 10:45 and 1:30 to 3pm ) ok if i put her to bed for the day at 6:30pm?
2- will she not wake up earlier than 5:45am if she goed to bed at 6:30pm?
3- when should i bfeed her after putting her to bed at 6:30pm?

many thanks/ sue

[Layla]

Sue, if she is fighting the catnap for a few days in a row.. then you will have to temporarily do an earlier bedtime but as well as that you need to increase her A times so naps are stretched out. The earlier bedtime doesn't always mean an earlier wake up time.... when transitioning from 3-2 or 2-1 naps you need to do a temporarily earlier bedtime.

If you constantly put her down earlier then she might start waking up earlier... do you think she could handle more A time during the day? 2.5hrs in the morning & 3hrs in the pm & 3hrs before bedtime???

Here's the link to dropping the catnap - https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64837.0

Well if you do a last BF at 6.30pm then as previous you either do a DF or wait for her to wake naturally & feed her when she wakes. I would still wait at least 5-6hrs before feeding...... How is she doing with the 2 solid meals? Do you feel like she is drinking more milk now that you have cut down one of the feeds?

[anyamom]

uufff this sleep and baby is no less than rocket science, add some minutes there, reduce some here..

today baby decided to stand my "schedule" on its head...
wake - 6am
sleep - 8am (against 9:15am over the past few days)
wake - 9am
sleep - 11:45am(against 1:30pm)
wake - 2pm (against 3pm)
sleep - 6:30pm

sorry i just couldnt get her to retire for the day earlier than 6:30!! and she didnt seem in the mood for evening nap either.

and yes, you are right (yet again) --- the DF seems to disturb her and makes her wake up more during the night than if i was to just feed her when she wakes naturally. so DF has gone out the window.

tomorrow i will try and stretch the A times... i understand from the link that i need to do that 10min at a time.

she certainly is drinking more milk now that one solid feed has been cut down. thanks and thanks again/ sue

layla -- THANKS 

[anyamom]

hi layla,
i put baby to bed at 6:30pm yesterday and she was up at 4:50am today!!!
she also woke up at 12am last night. i fed her at 12am and again at 5am, although the 5am feeding was a small one. she is in her crib right now, it is 5:20am. i will pick her out of there at 6am. so plan for todays naps is as below:
nap 1 : 8am-9:30am
nap 2 : 12:30 to 2pm
sleep : 6:30pm

that doesnt seem quite right... could you pls advise if any correction can be made here?

thanks/ sue

[Layla]

Sue, try not to shift the morning nap to that much of an extent with the morning wake up time. If she wakes really early & you can't put her back to sleep then try nap in the morning around 8.30am. I also think that she needs a catnap as 4.5hrs in the pm is too long before bedtime. If you keep shifting her morning nap to her wake up hour then she will keep on waking up early.

Did she not go back to sleep after the morning feed?

I would try today nap at

8:30-10am
12.30-2pm &
4:30/5pm - catnap
7pm - bedtime

[anyamom]

ok will do as below!

nope she didnt go back to sleep after the morning feed...

[anyamom]

hello, i am back 
was just observing baby over the past few days. I think we are pretty much set on the naps. she takes two or three per day, depending on how well she has slept in the afternoon. so we are looking at:
nap 1: 9:15 to 10:45
nap 2: 1:30 to 3pm

if nap 2 is 1:30 to 2:30
then nap 3: 5 to 5:30pm

many many thanks for guiding me to set these...

one day she slept for 2.5hours during the afternoon nap. then stayed awake from 1am to 2:30am!!!!!

at night : she sleeps about 7-ish. wakes up between 1:30 and 3am for a feed and goes to sleep promptly after BF.
then wakes up again at 5am.

pls advise should i bfeed her at 5am or should i pu/pd ? and when can i expect her to sleep thru the night?

many thanks/ sue

[Layla]

I don't think she needs the 5am feed if she's eating between 1.30-3am so I would do pu/pd or you can do a gradual method where you feed her but reduce the amount she is eating at the breast.

Does she seem to take a full feed at 5am or is she just snacking? Is it affecting her morning feed (the one when she wakes up - 7am)

Great to hear she is sleeping well during the day

[anyamom]

can i just crib here a little bit please... my mom-in-law is here with us these days and it is an uphill fight ALL THE TIME with her.
i DREAD my lo waking up at night, becoz the moment she cries, i hear grumbling from the other room "this will happen if she sleeps early" and "she is hungry, she will cry" and so on and so forth. really, that does nothing to my confidence. even the afternoon naps are given amidst much derision and "baby will sleep when she wants to" kind of noises in the background. i feel like taking a month off.

husband doesnt wake up in the night, incidentally, becoz "why dont you feed her she must be hungry". so it is upto yours truly to do all needful.

anyways, so much for the cribbing.. back to work !

baby's sleep time is 7pm but she has started getting up at 5am these days. her eyes remain closed for the amount of time that i feed her. when i am done, then her eyes open and she is ready to go !!! so i have decided not to feed her, and let her be in the crib till 6am. hopefully she will get the idea that she should sleep till 6am. would you advise that will be the correct thing to do?

of course mom-in-law asks me to put baby to bed at 11pm, after which she will sleep soundly thru the night and wake up at 7am.

[Layla]

of course mom-in-law asks me to put baby to bed at 11pm, after which she will sleep soundly thru the night and wake up at 7am.

what is she thinking??? How long before mil moves out or does she live with you permenantly?

You husband sounds very much like mine... he always slept through the cries & if by chance he would wake up it would "why don't you give her some milk". Actually my 2.5yo had some sleeping troubles (she got scared at night & would keep calling out for me)... & to that he said to me "why don't you give her some milk & she'll get back to sleep". I was like "are you serious?!? She hasn't had milk in the middle of the night since she was 9 months old & he wants me to start giving it to her now ". Anyway, enough rambling...

Is she mostly taking 2 or 3 naps now? Sometimes they tend to wake up at 5 in the morning ready to start the day when they are ready to drop the catnap. If she takes 3 naps then you could probably do a bedtime around 7.30pm other wise 7pm.

Also have you tried leaving her at 5am to see if she will get back to sleep or is she really crying out for you?

[anyamom]

hi there.. baby is mostly taking two naps now. she is a bit fussy around 5pm-ish, so i take her out for a little stroll etc etc
bedtime is between 7pm-7:30pm

i havent really tried to leave her alone at 5am. i go to her when she kind of cries. till now, i feed her a little at that time, then put her back in the crib till about 6am~6:15am and then pick her up out of it... tomorrow i will try to not pick her up at all when she cries, i will just speak with her or do shh/pat and try to quieten her like that. will let you know what happens then.

ps: mil is here for one more month, so i have to develop an auto-ear-shutdown system that lets in no comment from her !!!!
and i am planning to get my husband to wake up at 5am to put baby back to sleep !

[Layla]

Lol about making dh do the 5am wake up

Ok so if she's mostly taking 2 naps now then I would probably do bedtime no later than 7pm (for her to be in the cot & hopefully asleep by 7pm).... so try bedtime around 6:45pm.

It could be that she is overtired from the 4.5hr stretch in the afternoon. Generally the baby who has dropped catnap would be awake for 3hrs in the morning & afternoon & about 3.5hrs before bedtime. So if she's up at 6ish... then you could do

9-10.30 - morning nap
1.30-3pm - afternoon nap
6.30-7pm - bedtime

Good luck for the morning & let me know how you go

[anyamom]

hi layla,
have started taking lo to bed at about 6:30, so she is now asleep at about 6:50 to 7pm.
i have decided to go totally by the clock for night feedings.
if baby wakes up after 5hrs or more of last feed, and seems hungry, then i bfeed her.
if she wakes up before that, then i do shh/pat.

i have been reducing the early morning bf time and hope to get that totally off soon

she is waking up at about 5:45-ish now, so i let her play in the crib for a while and then get her out at about 6:30.

a million thanks for all your help!!!

[Layla]

You're more than welcome . Keep me updated in the future & post back with any other q's you might have....