Author Topic: Stuck in a rut (Read 2094 times)

October · « **on:** March 20, 2007, 12:16:26 pm »

Hi,

I've posted about a pattern of night wakings before but think there is something I'm missing so any help would be appreciated...we seem to be taking 1 step forward and 2 back.

My DS is almost 12 weeks corrected age (born in mid-October 2 months' early) and we have had a decent routine with feeding and naps and play (EASY really) from his first day home, now as follows :-

7am - 7oz (play till 1.5 hr nap at 8.30-9am)
11am - 7oz (play till nap by 12.30pm - 1.5-2.15 hrs)
3pm - 6oz (play till nap of 45 mins.at 4.30pm) - all he'll do
6.15pm - bath
6.30pm - 8oz and bed by 7.15pm (depends on gassiness)

We then feed any time between 10.30-12.30pm (6-7oz !) depending on when he wakes followed by a 2-3oz feed at 4-5am when he wakes. We tried feeding him at a set time (10.30pm) and letting him go and so the times do vary but not much given the increases at his bedtime feed over the last 6-8 weeks !

Thing is, we've had small early am. feeds forever and we seem to be stuck. Lately, my DS has woken and fussed (wet diaper ?) for an hour or more before we decided to change him. He seemed very chipper so I'm now wondering if he is getting longer naps than he needs ? He is sometimes hungry and sometimes not. No set pattern and we treat accordingly.

Do I increase day feeds to see if he'll go longer after 7pm bedtime ?
How do we stop him waking with a wet diaper when he takes so much food at 10.30-12.30pm ? He is usually soaking wet so changing him is a must, which of course wakes him up...and so on.
How do we wean such a small 2-3 oz feed at 5-6 am

Paci doesn't work.
He's a happy guy (but feisty) so I don't think he's overtired but I may be wrong......

What to try next ? We aim to start on rice cereal with the doc. in the first week of April. My DS loves his food but has gassy times which can wake him...

momofclaire · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2007, 16:16:58 pm »

I would try to top him off after his 4:30 nap and before bath so like 5:15 and then feed again at 6:30 like you have been and see how long he sleeps with that extra food in him. As far as wetness, we bought separate diapers for nighttime which really seemed to help. Huggies overnights are great!

October · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2007, 16:58:37 pm »

Thanks for the diaper and cluster feeding tip !!

How much should we give him at the 2 extra feeds you suggest ? Is 4oz too much given that we need him to take his biggest feed at bedtime (6.30pm) ??

momofclaire · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2007, 17:15:33 pm »

Oops I made a mistake. I didn't mean to say feed him at 4:30 and 5:15, I meant just after his 4:30 nap at around 5:15. I would offer 4oz and then offer what you normally would at his 6:30 feed. Sometimes babies can take a few oz and then a little while later have a bit more room. Hope I cleared that up. Myia

October · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2007, 17:25:38 pm »

Nope, my mistake. Your note was clear enough. We did do cluster feeds long ago when he was much younger but I guess they may help now that we're getting there (kind of).

It's the fact that he's so smiley and playful at 4-5am that bothers me....does he need all the nap time he's getting do you think ? This morning we left him fussing as he wasn't crying for an hour at least. Seemed very tired by 8.30am though.......oh dear, stealing night sleep with early a/m nap ? It was only 1.5 hrs but that one bothers me when he doesn't sleep consistently yet bt. 4-7 am.......

momofclaire · « **Reply #5 on:** March 21, 2007, 00:53:58 am »

At 12 weeks babies need roughly 5 hours of daytime sleep. I don't know, when it comes to sleep if you would go be adj age or real age? I would try the cluster for a few days and really keep an eye on the daytime sch. Keep me posted.
Myia

October · « **Reply #6 on:** March 22, 2007, 09:42:14 am »

Hi again,

Well, after 2 daysof cluster feeding we seem to be no better on sleep time. My DS has taken 41oz each day (too much for him really) and suffered gassy nights and woken on schedule or earlier. Last night was worse after bad naps and he actually woke twice during the early evening after bedtime ! Horrors ! Naturally, we fed him when he woke in the early hours to settle as he was hungry both times.

So, I'm thinking he may just not be ready for feeds to be more than 4-5 hours apart yet. The thing to emphasise is that he was born at approx. 31 weeks (we never knew for sure..) and since about 35 weeks he's been on a 4-hour feeding schedule in 3 different hospitals and since then at home. So, his routine is somewhat more entrenched than your average 12-week-old as he now is. We have to go by his corrected age developmentally for up to 1-2 years and I've put feeding/sleeping into that category barr the timeframe.

Any other thoughts on him ? Maybe we've got to be REALLY patient with our guy who went through a lot very patiently in hospital. He has a milk and soy allergy but nothing other than that to affect his patterns. He isn't consistently hungry so he seems to want to remain in charge !!

Looks like my 40th year is going to be a tired one !!!!!!!!!

momofclaire · « **Reply #7 on:** March 22, 2007, 12:06:05 pm »

At his age he should be able to go one 4-5 hour stretch. I would certainly feed him if he's hungry. Are you feeding him everytime he wakes? If he is waking a lot and the same thing puts him to sleep each time, paci, bottle whatever, then it is a prop and wont stop no matter what his age, unless you stop it.

Were his naps good the last couple of days?

October · « **Reply #8 on:** March 22, 2007, 12:34:54 pm »

He usually wakes only once, between 3-45am & 5am after his 11pm feed. I want to find out if he needs the food hence the original post, and after 2 attempts he seems to. He guzzles his food mostly but really struggled with the 5.15pm (4oz) and 6.30pm (7oz).

Yesterday his naps (lunchtime and pm) were both shortened by poos...all that food 2 days ago perhaps...same thing woke him early at 6.15am today after a feed at 3.30am !! I am having to work on extending all his naps past the killer 45-min.mark anyway.

No props...personally I hate the paci as he can't hold it in.....NOT going there !

Maybe we should stick with 11pm feed and feed upon waking ? Like I said, the early am. feed is always small and has been so weaning may be interesting..

momofclaire · « **Reply #9 on:** March 22, 2007, 16:27:47 pm »

Do you mean an 11pm dream feed? If that was working beter than clustering then by all means do that.

October · « **Reply #10 on:** March 22, 2007, 16:55:04 pm »

Nope, DFs never worked as he is gassy enough sometimes when burped ! We have tried letting him sleep on from 7pm till he wakes then feed him. Thing with that is he has 6-7oz very late (leatest was night of the clocks going forward when he went to 2.20 am !) and I'm wondering if it's better for weaning to leave in a feed at 11pm or to re-try leaving him to wake. His best sleep by far is 7pm-midnight so I guess we should take advantage of that.

We've been trying to extend his midnight-7am sleep....how best to tackle that ??

momofclaire · « **Reply #11 on:** March 22, 2007, 18:01:07 pm »

I would only feed him when he wakes. If you just let him wake on his own, how much would that be?

October · « **Reply #12 on:** March 22, 2007, 18:09:48 pm »

He would convincingly guzzle 7oz if offered...and wake up times vary from 11.30pm to 1.20am (clock read 2.20am but the clocks moved forward bt. bedtime and then !) Even then he often wakes again at around 4-5am...........yawn...

I don't want to keep switching around his routine but want to be doing this right and not unwittingly letting things drag on when they don't have to.

Any other ideas ?

momofclaire · « **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2007, 00:01:28 am »

Maybe he really needs those two feeds. I am unsure about babies born early and how/when they sleep longer. Honestly it doesn't seem too bad to me. I will have Jessica come over and see what she thinks though.
Myia

Colin Macs Mom · « **Reply #14 on:** March 23, 2007, 17:01:18 pm »

Hi October,

I'm not an expert on preemies, but as I understand it sleep goes with their corrected age rather than actual. Therefore, 12/13 weeks would be her age as we consider it in this forum. A LO that age still has a lot to learn about sleeping usually and definitely has a night feed - at least one. Since yours is taking 7 oz enthusiastically, that indicates it's definitely a needed feed. BUT, I would have a goal of feeding once at night and not more.

As a side note, since your LO is so gassy I would wait on the rice cereal. That will make the gassiness even worse and it will affect sleep.

October · « **Reply #15 on:** March 23, 2007, 18:52:20 pm »

We have always used his corrected age......10 weeks in hospital with him taught us a lot but not how to feed him !!

My main query is do I wake him to feed at 10.30-11pm giving the usual 7oz and again the usual 2-3oz bt.4-5am or do I leave him to wake for both ? Last night we left him and he woke at 12.30am, then 4.20am for a diaper change (he was soaked and I don't know how he sleeps through this one day). I put him back down at 4.40am and he slept till 5.15am seemingly hungry. BUT, at that time even 1.5oz affected his 7am feed. Do you think he's in a waking pattern in those early hours ? If I'd had the time he would have gone back down on 1.5oz I'm sure of it !!

Colin Macs Mom · « **Reply #16 on:** March 23, 2007, 19:51:37 pm »

No, definitely do NOT wake him for a feed. If he's hungry he'll wake and let you know he's hungry. He might be in a waking pattern - does he wake at the same time or very close in the early morning hours? If so then wake to sleep could help a lot.

October · « **Reply #17 on:** March 23, 2007, 20:25:02 pm »

Thanks for the steer.
I'm starting out on w2s but am not sure what time to go in to him. He wakes anytime bt. 3.40am and 5.20am ! That's a big window and I'm still trying w2s out on his naps with mixed reactions. Any thoughts on this being a pattern as he does seem to accept 2oz or less and has for a while now (long while)....In the early hours he definitely seems attached to being held....guess we have to wean that and try w2s ?

Colin Macs Mom · « **Reply #18 on:** March 23, 2007, 20:38:08 pm »

That's too big a window for it to be a habitual waking, but taking 2 oz or less is defnitely not hunger. Have you ever tried not offering that feed? What happens?

I would definitely wean the holding, but I don't know that W2S would help you any TBH. $:-\$

October · « **Reply #19 on:** March 23, 2007, 21:04:05 pm »

We have tried not offering the feed using Tracy's opaci substitue method. Disaster...he couldn't hold the paci in so we would need another approach. Apart from trying to re-settle him (we hold him and paty his back then simply put him down, if he cries we follow with pu/pd. I don't know what else to try.

Colin Macs Mom · « **Reply #20 on:** March 23, 2007, 23:14:34 pm »

It's probably for the best that the paci deal doesn't work - sometimes it backfires and turns into a paci addiction. I would stick with trying to resettle. It won't change overnight, but if you are consistent and stick to it, it'll straighten out.

October · « **Reply #21 on:** March 26, 2007, 09:37:35 am »

Hi again,

We have continued trying to re-settle but now I'm wondering if my DS need to get up ealrier. The last 2 nights we fed at about 5-5.30am and then had to get him up by 6.20am as he refused to go back down (we're trying not to spoil his first meal at 7am).

He naps about 4 hours a day now and seems very happy on that and an early am awake time. I could be wrong but maybe he needs less sleep ?

Should we start his day earlier and gradually move it to 7am if need be or do something different with feedings (still offering only 1.5-2 ozat 5 am or so !!)

Like I say in the title, feel a bit stuck in a rut. We've been on early wakeups since he came home, obviously he sleeps longer now but he still seems to want to be up by 6-6.30am...

What to do ?

Colin Macs Mom · « **Reply #22 on:** March 26, 2007, 16:14:05 pm »

Some babies have a very strong internal clock, and are early risers by nature just like some adults. Sometimes it's nothing more than that, but other times it's indicitive of a need to adjust the routine. The trick is telling the difference

I'd be inclined to think that 4 hours day sleep would be fine for him, but with a preemie things are trickier. I'm going to ask Jenn(c) to take a look here for you since her DD was also a preemie.

Jenn© · « **Reply #23 on:** March 27, 2007, 00:46:04 am »

Hi there!! A couple of things jump out at me. What formula is he using?
I wondered if that could be contributing to the gassiness. Is he on any medications? Any other health stuff going on? Any complications in the NICU? (my nurse brain thinks differently). At 12 weeks adjusted, we were still at 2 feeds a night, so it's possible yours needs it too. (did 2 hr EASY for 2.5 months!!) I agree on waiting with rice as that may cause more trouble than it's worth. We got the ok at 4 months, waited until 6. Also agree that he could just have an early clock. I'll keep a'thinkin'!

October · « **Reply #24 on:** March 27, 2007, 09:08:15 am »

Hi Jenn,
Good to hear from you ...need the premie bit addressed as it's never discussed in books and there'll all different. He is on Alimentum (had milk & soy allergy diagnosed in Children's in Boston back in early December) and loves the disgusting stuff !! Has multi-vits and iron and no complications. He's being weighed tomorrow and I reckon he's 15-16lbs taking c. 38oz/day so no feeding issues. Doc. says he's a happy wheezy baby. He's feisty and I'm starting to think actually overtired. Wakes c. 4am nowadays and fusses for 45-50 minutes. I managed to re-settle at 5am (wasn't hungry) for 45 minutes (nap !!) and am now going on to 3.5 hour feeding routine to reduce awake time (Stacey's been helping me over on Naps on that).

Any other ideas welcome !

Jenn© · « **Reply #25 on:** March 27, 2007, 15:00:53 pm »

Basically what we did was go with the adjusted age for everything. We had reflux thrown into the mix.

Sooo, rocked to sleep until 4 months when she had the right med/formula. Then once she felt better, she just "got it". It does sound like he is overtired. Fixing that should do tons to help. When he is ready for solids, check out the MSPI thread in food allergies. Lots of help and support there.

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Author Topic: Stuck in a rut (Read 2094 times)