Waking every 3 hrs during 2nd half of night. Normal for 2.5 month old?

[BareFootMomma]

One of my 11 week old twins has started having more frequent night. They both used to go to bed around 7, DF at 11 and then maybe wake around 3-4 to eat before going back to sleep until starting the day at 7.

The past few days one of them has started waking more. She basically sleeps through the DF (eats, but is still in a pretty deep sleep), and then wakes at midnight, 3, and then wants to start the day at 6....which is inconvenient because the other baby was just up at 4 to eat. She wakes at 3 hrs exactly, almost to the minute.

She has been having an issue with 45 min naps, but those were going on for over a week before this night change happened. The only other thing I can think of is that we just got her tongue tie clipped two days ago. Since then, she has not been nursing as long at each feed. I figured it was because she can be more efficient now without the tie, but I'm wondering if this has anything to do with the NWing change. I'm pretty sure she is getting full at each feed during the day because if I try to get her to eat more she starts spitting up. But she seems ravenous at the night feedings.

What might be causing the extra NWing? Is it normal and I was just getting lucky that they were sleeping so well at night?

[becj86]

She could be hitting a growth spurt.

It is pretty normal to feed at 3hrly intervals at this age. Though if you're doing the dreamfeed at 11, she shouldn't need another feed at 12 - is she uncomfortable with gas after the dreamfeed? Do you burp her after it?

[BareFootMomma]

Yep, I make sure to burp her really well because I do the DF with a bottle. She eats more that way especially when she is still pretty asleep.

Nights are turning into H*ll really quickly around here. Night before last they were both up every 3 hrs and at one point had an entire 1 hr 20 min awake time despite my every attempt to put them back to sleep. Last night they were up every two hours to eat....on different schedules of course. I would just get one down and the other would wake up, and on and on and on. The past two days of naps have been really awesome, with them both sleeping through the 45 min mark. I expected the nights to improve too, but instead they are falling apart.

[becj86]

How long are their naps? Wondering if the naps are robbing night sleep... their A times must be around 1hr15 or so by now? Can you post their day in EAS format?

Any growth spurt behaviours in the day?

I will see if I can find a twin mum or two for some suggestions.

[BareFootMomma]

No growth spurt stuff during the day other than just being super fussy in general.

Last night was better, except that it took them FOREVER to go to sleep initially. I had them in bed for the night at 7:15, but they were up every 10-30 minutes until 9:30! It was one more than the other, but neither wanted was hungry, they just couldn't seem to stay asleep. Then they were up to eat at 1 and 4:30 and then up for the morning at 7:10 (I got them up, but don't know if I should have since their evening was so rough). **DH just informed me that Baby B actually woke/cried and had her paci re-plugged all night until she ate at 1!! He usually takes the night shift and only wakes me when they need to eat. When he woke me at 1 he said they had slept great......not sure how crying every 45 minutes is great, but whatever  **

They were both really fussy and upset this morning, acting tired before they were even done eating. I tried to put them down for their first nap early, but life happened and they were up for their normal A time. One had a bit of trouble going to sleep and was up an extra 10 minutes. Both had really broken sleep for this nap so their morning looked like this:
E - 7:10
A - 7:35 - Started wind down at 8:00
S - Baby A - 8:15 Baby B - 8:25
Baby B woke at 8:55 & her fussing woke Baby A - Both went back to sleep with minimal intervention
Baby A woke at 9:25, 9:40, 9:45 and then finally settled back to sleep
Baby B just woke at 9:45 and will not go back to sleep
Ugh!

Our routine for the past few days has been:

E - 7am - This is sometimes as early as 6, but I usually get them up at 7 to start the day
A - 7:20 - Wind down starts at 8
S - 8:15-20 - One is usually down 5 minutes before the other....because getting them to sleep at the same time is pretty much impossible - They usually wake briefly at the 45 during this nap, but since Wednesday have been going back to sleep pretty easily.
E - 9:50 - I would prefer they sleep until 10, but one, if not both, have been waking up 10 minutes before
A - 10:20 - WD 1 hr after they wake
S - 10-10:10 - We usually get a really good nap
E - 1
A - 1:20-30 - They seem to get tired quickly during this A time and I have to keep things low key to keep them up for the whole A time (should I shorten it?)
S - 2:10-15 - They usually wake or make noise at the 45, but have been doing better
E - 3:50 - again they wake about 10 minutes before I would prefer
A - 4:10 - This is when our days start to fall apart. They either get tired very quickly or are very hard to wake up and basically sleep through this feed. They still eat, but are mostly still asleep despite my efforts to fully wake them. Then, when they finish eating they finally wake up and I have no idea what to do with their A time. I usually just let them stay up an extra 5 minutes or so.
S - 5:10-15 - They have a hard time staying asleep for their cat nap and usually only sleep for 30-40 minutes. I know that is how long that nap is supposed to be, but is it ok that they are waking themselves or should they be wanting to sleep longer?
E - 6 - Many days they don't want to eat much.
A - 6:15 - Bedtime routine: Bath, lotion, PJ's, lights out, fan on, cuddle, swaddle, cuddle, bed
S - 7:00-7:30 - This depends on how upset they are during bath time. I do one at a time and sometimes the  baby waiting gets super upset and that delays bed because I am trying to soothe one baby and bathe the other at the same time.

DF - 11 - Skipped this last night because I didn't want to risk waking them
NWings - On a good night they are only up once in the early morning between 2:30 and 4.

Until a couple nights ago they would go right to sleep and stay asleep through the DF until their first real feed during the night. Now it seems that they are having a harder and harder time settling in for sleep at night. They wake multiple times wanting their paci or even needing to be picked back up to be able to go back to sleep only to wake again 5-10 minutes after being put down. Then, without changing anything in how I am trying to get them to sleep they will suddenly settle and stay asleep.....it is pretty baffling.

Is that enough of a novel for you? Lol, sorry it go so long!

[becj86]

I had them in bed for the night at 7:15, but they were up every 10-30 minutes until 9:30!

This sounds like overtiredness or pain.

They have a hard time staying asleep for their cat nap and usually only sleep for 30-40 minutes. I know that is how long that nap is supposed to be, but is it ok that they are waking themselves or should they be wanting to sleep longer?

That's fine - I never had to wake DS from his catnap at this age either, he just seemed to know it was time to have a little nap, get up, bath, eat and go back to bed for the night.

re: waking 10min before ideal - I don't know there's much you can do about it... I know other twin mums that say you should just wake the other if one wakes to try and keep them in sync enough to be manageable. If one is happy to lie there for 5-10mins til the other wakes though, I'd probably do that instead.

Baby B sounds like she needs to be put down first for naps as she is maybe more overtired than baby A.

I wonder about moving bath time to an earlier A time so the A time to bed is a little shorter - needs to be max. 1hr after a catnap, ideally less at this age, I'd say.

TBH, the routine looks pretty good. I think maybe they're just hitting that stage when they wake up a bit from their newborn sleepiness - happens around 10-13 weeks typically and sleep is a bit harder to come by for a little while.

[BareFootMomma]

AAAGGGHHH!! They will NOT go to sleep tonight!

They wouldn't go to sleep for their cat nap at 5:30, and it is now 8:30 and they are still up. They haven't slept more than 5 minutes straight since they woke up from their very troubled nap at 4:30. We finally gave up at 8 and are letting them have a bit of A time before trying to put them to bed again. I have no idea what the problem is, but they have both been super fussy and miserable all day.

[becj86]

Could be this: http://www.thewonderweeks.com/index.php/about-the-wonder-weeks/your-babys-10-leaps/mental-leap-3 playing a part.

[BareFootMomma]

Hmm. They will be turning 12 weeks on Tuesday, so maybe that is part of it. Whatever is going on, I think we are now in a huge OT cycle. Should I ask about getting out of it on the back on track board?

They finally went to sleep at 10ish and slept pretty well for the night. They woke at 6:45 though, and were up for a regular A time. I tried to shorten it, but they fought sleep until they would have normal gone back to sleep. So, really short night

I am torn between leaving them to sleep as long as they will/want and keeping their schedule so they aren't robbing their night sleep.

[becj86]

I know its easier said than done with twins, but maybe you need a couple of days not quite so governed by the clock - PD for naps after normal A times and let them sleep, when one wakes, wake the other to keep things reasonably in tandem. If you do that, stick with no more than 2hr per nap, so wake at 2hr if they sleep that long. You may find that little catnap falls by the wayside and their A time goes to 1hr20/25. At 13 weeks, their A time would typically be 1.5hr...