Feeding to sleep at NW- How to stop?

[dollster]

Hi

My almost 5month old dd (exclusively bf) still wakes 3-4 times a night and doesn't sleep longer than 3-4 hours at a time.  Until now, I have always just fed her but I'm getting really tired and want to see if I can get her to sleep longer at night without wake ups.

The problem is how do I know if she is waking from hunger or habit?  She seems to wake around the same times at night (10pm dreamfeed, 2am, 5am) but seems to be hungry and normally feeds well at these times.

What I'm thinking of doing is to do the df at 10pm and then try and re-settle with shush/pat or PU/PD at the 2am feed?  Does this seem right?  I would just hate to not feed her if she's hungry though...

any help appreciated!

[becj86]

What's her EASY?

What I'm thinking of doing is to do the df at 10pm and then try and re-settle with shush/pat or PU/PD at the 2am feed?  Does this seem right

This is pretty much what we recommend - she should be able to go at least as long between feeds at night as she does in the day. I would use shush/pat rather than PUPD though.

[dollster]

Thanks for reply.

I'm trying to slowly transition dd from 3 hour to 4 hour easy, so each day is a bit all over the place.  Basically her EASY is like this:

E 7:30am
A
S 9:00-10:30

E 11:00am
A
S 12:15-1:30pm

E 2:15pm
A
S 3:15 - 4:15pm

E 5:30pm
A
E and S 6:15pm (feed just before bedtime, but she goes to sleep by herself)

DF - 10pm
(last night she did extra NW at 12midnight)
NW - 2am Feed
NW - 5am Feed (she normally wakes and talks to herself, so I leave her, but she eventually starts to cry, so I then feed her.  She then takes awhile to get to sleep again, but normally asleep 6am again until 7:30am wakeup)

Not sure where to start really.   She is quite hungry at the night feeds, so I also think I need to get more food into her during the day, so when we do the shush/pat at NWs, we can be confident that she's not hungry.  But to get more food into her during the day, it seems strange to be trying to feed her less often (ie going from 3 hour to 4 hour EASY)?

Love to hear your thoughts.

[becj86]

It actually all looks pretty normal night-wise. Its ok to feed to sleep at genuine night feeds - no need to do any A time between feed and sleep at night.

The idea behind feeding at 4hr intervals to get more food in is that 4hrly becomes snacking (though a lot of EBF babies don't make it to 4hr between milk feeds until solids is introduced though, so you can offer milk feeds where you would ordinarily offer solids - E at 7 & 8, nap at 9-11, etc.).

[dollster]

Thanks for info.

In relation to the number of night wakings, what is normal to expect at almost 5 months?

Last night, dd did:

10pm df
1:30am NW and fed
4:30am NW and fed
7:15am wake up

I thought Tracey said that at this age, they should be able to drop the 1:30am feed?  She was hungry at all the NW's though, so do you think I need to concentrate on more food during the day, as opposed to actively trying to wean a night feed at 1:30am?...does that make sense??

[becj86]

Yes, get the day right and the night should follow. I would concentrate on getting good full feedings in during the day as well as working on naps and independent sleep - the independent sleep helps prevent the breast becoming a prop at night because LO knows how to get to sleep on her own, the naps help keep her well rested so she can sleep well at night and once she's taking full feeds during the day, she will hopefully drop one of those NF's on her own. You may find that you have to wean it gently but best to give her every opportunity to get rid of it on her own first.

[new mum01]

Hi dollster,

I thought it might help to know you're not alone!! I'm in exactly the same position here. My LO is 5 months and 1 week old.
She wakes at 10pm, 2am, 5am and 7am every night recently. During the day she naps well & I'm moving her towards 4 hour feedings & started a bit of solids too. It's hard to believe she needs to feed that frequently during the night and I wondered about weaning the 2am feed as well but my HV said you mustn't do this until they are at least 6 months old & that they are setting up their supply for the next day...? She also said it's around this age that they realise they are separate from you and need the reassurance from you...? Interested to hear other thoughts.

I'm totally confused about what it is though. Night before last I just fed DD for 10 mins at 2am and she woke at 5. So last night I offered her both sides which she took & burped her thoroughly (spent 45 mins with her) and she STILL woke at 5! Must be a habitual waking.

I wonder if 5 months-ish is a particularly difficult age for sleep? (although i keep reading that 4 months is. DD was better at 4 months).

[dollster]

Hi Becs and New Mum 01.  thanks for replies (sorry for my delay in repling, my computer broke)

Well things aren't getting any better.  I'm getting really tired and my poor toddler is getting lots of grumpy mummy lately so really want to try and help things along with my new dd.

My dd EAS yesterday was:

7:30am awake and feed
9:15am-10:10am S
10:30am E
11:30 - 1:30pm S
1:30 E
3:30-4pm S
4:00pm E
5:30-5:50pm catnap in pram
6:30pm E and bedtime

9:30pm woke and did df
12midnight feed
3am Feed
6am Feed
7:30am awake

Not sure where to start really.  She is hungry at the night feeds - in fact she seems to feed better a night than during the day.

Where to from here??

[waffling3]

Sorry to gate crash but I wondered if it was ok to feed to sleep on the night feeds. My 10 wk dd has a feed at 1-3am and I feed to sleep and pop down. She's awake when I put her down to bed with dummy x

[becj86]

Dollster - She needs more A time first up in the morning - 1hr30 at least, preferably 1hr45 to get a good restorative nap in.
Perhaps try feeding her as soon as she wakes from her nap so she's still nice and relaxed and drowsy and see if she takes more in the day that way.

Waffling - Totally ok to feed to sleep at night feeds - doesn't your LO have reflux though? If so and she wakes regularly after that feed, you may find holding her upright for 20min or so after the feed helps. xx