BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Naps => Topic started by: choc on April 28, 2016, 15:48:46 pm
-
I can't see to get ds2s second nap right, it is always short either 30 or 40 mins. These are a few of the days we have
had
Wu 7.20
S 10.45 to 12.15
S 3.45 to 4.15
Bt 7
Wu 6.45
S 10.30 to 12
S 3.50 to 4.30
Wu 7
S 10.30 to 12.20
S 3.40/45 to 4.20
Bt 7.20
Wu 6.45
S 10.30 to 12.30
S 3.45 to 4.20
Bt 6.45
These are just a few examples. I have a school run from 3 to 3.30 so 3.40/45 is the earliest I can get him down for second nap. He won't resettle and won't sleep longer than 30 mins in pram.
Any ideas?!
-
Hi
Are you still getting the night wakings as well?
How's his mood in the day? At night? in general?
Thing is from your EAS times above it doesn't look straight off like there is a huge problem, looks like the second nap is short, yes, but the night looks great so if his mood and nights are ok then I'd leave the routine as it is.
-
He is happy all day, His nights are bad, some nights a long waking for 1hr30ish, sometimes a 5am Wu on and off til 7. He wakes crying from the second nap but is ok once I get him up. I was wondering if the short nap was causing OT night wakings. But maybe it's not that!
-
When he won't re-settle in the pram is it because the pram stops moving or because it's bright outside or what do you think?
If he is waking unhappy from it I would say he does need longer nap at that time, and yes if he still has rough nights then the routine as a whole is the place to look. An unhappy wake up can in some cases indicate he went to sleep a bit too early, a touch UT and unable to transition into the next sleep cycle. I'm not going to suggest extending the A time though as he is only 7 months and already on quite a long A time, plus because you have the school run so really you need that nap at a 'set' time and not on a flexible A time. So the alternative is to sleep train for that nap. To 'tell' him he needs to sleep longer and put in some time to encourage that rather than letting him get up.
I'd suggest things like:
- keep the pram moving
- put a cover/shade or one of those pram black out thingies
- when he wakes you need to resettle him, use your usual method such as shush/pat PUPD and put in 30 mins of sleep training (hard as you then have your older child to care for after school, I know, but once you have sleep trained this nap you *should* hopefully get an uninterrupted time with DS1 whilst DS2 naps. Is there someone who can help out with DS1 for a few days (during that transition and resettle period after school) whilst you sleep train DS2?
Hmm...actually I think I might be getting things confused. I just looked at the times again, is the second nap at 3.45 at home in his cot due to him not sleeping in the pram? I was imagining you were napping him in the pram on the way to the school PU but now I see the time is rather late for school PU.
Well, either way I think the nap needs longer and some sleep training.
One other thing I was going to suggest is capping nap 1 a bit earlier (possibly not for ever but in the short term) so that he is good and tired for nap 2 to help with resettling.
I feel once you have him in the habit of nap 2 being at a set time in a set place and for a set length (longer than a CN) your routine overall will be much easier to handle. He can go to bed later after a longer nap and would hopefully sleep better at night too.
-
Yes you're right, because he won't sleep for long in the pram, even when it's moving and covered, we have to wait until we get home. The first nap has ended at all different times, 11.45,12, 12.15,12.30 and it hasn't seemed to make a difference to nap2s length so not sure capping would be the way to go, but I am happy to sleep train him. The nap is set at 3.45 really after an A time of anywhere between 4 hours and 3hrs 15.
How much longer than a cn would you suggest? Would an hour be OK?
Yesterday was
Wu 6.15
S 10.30 to 12
S 3.50 to 4.30
Bt 6.50
And didn't wake til 5.35am. Didn't go back to sleep though!
I'll Start the sleep training today. Thanks x
-
Another quick question, it has been 2 hours now and he is asleep for nap 1. Is it ok to let him do this or will it reinforce the early morning wakings? He woke at 5.35am this morning and went back down at 10.30. Is that enough of a gap to not make it an extension of his night sleep?
-
He is sleeping longer! We are currently on 50mins! I have no idea what I am doing now, it has taken me completely by surprise! I may wake him after an hour which will be 5pm. Then 7.30 bed time? Help! Tell me if you think otherwise!
-
Gosh - you're about to do BT - go for it!
-
Just starting now! He woke himself at 50mins from the nap by the way. I hope I've picked the right bedtime!
What do you think about what I was saying with the length of the morning nap?
-
it has been 2 hours now and he is asleep for nap 1
I probably owuldn't let it go over 2hrs on a regular basis, a one off could be illness coming or like you said making up for the lost sleep from the night, if it's illness you'll find out in a few days if it's lost sleep from night you don't want to encourage shorter nights or longer NWs by giving a 2hr+ nap. I'd make 2hr the max.
Bt 6.50
And didn't wake til 5.35am. Didn't go back to sleep though!
So although WU was early you are saying he STTN, yes? That's great, can you look again at what you did the day before to see if anything was different?
Also how long have his nights been when sleeping through? Mine only did 10.5 hr nights anyway even on a 'perfect' routine with no UT or OT, that's just how he was, I'd like to know if yours might be similar or if he used to do a full 12hr without long NWs?
He is sleeping longer! We are currently on 50mins!
What did you do? Did you resettle or he just did it? Did he seem happier to go for his nap? Was the A time shorter due to that longer morning nap perhaps?
Without your answers my first hunch is that the first nap may need to come a bit later (avoid EW, reduce second A time) and with a longer nap 2 BT can become later and the 10.5hr night may become solid. Does this sound/feel like a possibility to you or sound like craziness? sometimes when someone suggests something you can get a hunch yk? (as you know him best)
Just off to put my own into bed now :-*
-
Ok I'll cap the nap at 2hrs if not ill etc
The afternoon nap I didn't need to resettle, he just did it. I put him down at 3.45 as normal and then instantly regretted it as he'd slept 2hrs10m in the morning until 12.40. He rolled all round the cot til he fell asleep at 4. So went down ut but then extended his own A time and slept 55 mins.
Yes he slept through to 5.35! I don't think I did anything differently, he has had days the same/similar to that before. He had a 1hr30 am nap which is shortish for him and then a pretty long A of 3hr30 then 40 min nap. This has happened before though and no sttn. Today has been quite different from yesterday so not sure what to expect tonight.
He has sttn for 11 to 11hr30 on the odd occasion, maybe around 4 times. But he has only slept through around 6 times in his life!
I'm not sure if 10hr30 nights are craziness or not! I kind of hope that's not the case!! But will accept it if it is. Last time he went to bed at 7.30 he woke at 5 which was 9hr30 night, so I figured putting him down later didn't make him sleep later but I didn't really try it out to be honest. I hate Bt after 7.30, don't want to get up at 6 though either ;D ;D
A question about pushing first nap later. It is currently at 10.30 pretty much a set nap. Shall I make it 10.45? And even if he wakes mega early, say 5 30 again, do I stick to it?
-
So we had another sttn, well I heard him wake a couple of times but he settled himself instantly! He woke at 6am after a 7.30 Bt, so 10.5 hours again. I tried to resettle in cot but gave up at 6 20 and got him up. Do I still push him to normal nap time? Or even push further? Or am I asking for trouble? He handles it well but I know he will be exhausted.
-
Hi, great to hear you had another good night :)
Well, it's hard to know what to advise when things are already on the change.
If you would normally do a set (ish) nap at 10.30am regardless of WU time then I'd go for that or the slightly extended, 10.45 (me, probably the latter but I'm not there am I, it's easier in just words on a screen yk?). Then 2hr nap and see how the afternoon goes.
I totally understand not wanting Bt to go later or for the WU to be too early, I know, you need a break from it all, if BT does end up later or WU early though the better news is it isn't going to be for ever. Chances are you could get to one nap at 12 months so it's only a few months of the later BT or earlier Wu iyswim, then it would switch to EBT and longer nights.
I would try a W2S or resettle on that second nap, perhaps hover near his bed at 30/40 mins so you are ready to jump in if needed and see if you can extend.
-
Ok I will try and be brave and keep up to 10.45 but will at least stick to 10.30!
I think I could do the later bt if he was sttn as then I could go to bed later and that would mean I could spend more time with hubby in evening. If I put him down at 8pm and he isn't sttn then I need to go to bed at 9pm which doesn't give us much of an evening together.
As it's the weekend I think we may be out for nap 2 today as ds1 needs to get out. So it might be a 30 min pram nap. Sometimes I just have to let it go as ds1 and dh tell me off for not wanting to do things on weekends due to naps!
-
He was so so tired this morning, he tried to fall asleep on my lap which is unheard of! I put down at 10.35 amd he was asleep at 10.40 so a slightly longer A time. We are coming up to the 2 hour mark and I will wake him. He will probably still be tired though after being awake since 6am. Will it help to encourage him to sleep later in the morning though?
-
The slightly longer first A time should help with the morning Wu time, either make it later or not let it get earlier.
-
Thanks, we'll see how tonight goes!
-
So yesterday was
Wu 6am
Oob 6.20
S 10 .40 to 12.40 I woke him
S 4.10 to 4.40 couldn't resettle and not sure why we got OT 30 mins.
Bt 7.15
Slept through til 5am, so only 9h45 night sleep! Ah I seem to have replaced one problem with another, long night wakings replaced by early waking!
Keeping him up til 10.45am is going to be interesting. Can't believe I moaned at 6am yesterday.
-
Kept him up til 10.45am and he short napped, woke after 1hr20 and we are visiting family this afternoon so will be a short nap again. :'( :'(
-
I'd keep trying for a few days. He did wake particularly early at 5am so it was a long time to go until his nap.
-
Ok I'll stick with it. Today was
Wu 5am
S 10.45 to 12.05
S 3.25 to 4.40 in car
Bt 7. 10
Still not asleep now at 7.30. So far it's been a 14h30 day!
-
So he fell asleep at 7 30 in the end last night, do you think it was ut because of the longer pm nap but I kept Bt the same, or ot from such a long day and still shortish naps?
This morning he woke at 4.45am. It's getting earlier! He did fall back to sleep at 5.15 to 5.45 then I got him up at 6.30.
Back down for nap at 10.45.
Is he going to be massively OT from staying awake so long in the morning after ew? Will he eventually realise that he needs to sleep longer in the morning as he isn't getting a chance to make it up during the day?
Sorry for 100 questions in this post!
-
We are having total nap refusal here. I just don't know what to do. He's been awake more than 4 hours now. I put him down at 4.15pm after 3hr30 A time and a 2hr nap this morning. I just don't know what toto do. He played for the first 15 mins, then cried for 25 mins. Dh has just come in and got him up as we were both getting in a state. Now he is happily crawling around downstairs. What is going on? It's 5pm now, I'll have to do 6pm Bt won't I and pray he doesn't get up at 3 or 4 am. I'm scared.
Today went
Wu 4.45, Back to sleep at 5.15 til 5.45
Wu 5.45
Oob 6.30
S 10.45 to 12.45
S 4.15 but didn't happen
Edited to add he was fine til he went to bed at 6.30 and slept through til 5.30. So 11 hours sleep. The most we have had in a while.
Another edit to add he took 20 mins to drop off for today's pm nap which is unusual. We have a class today so I gave him a nap at 9am to 10am then put down at 1.25pm and he took 20 mins to drop off and gave a 40 min nap. I'm starting to wonder if I'm underestimating his A times?
-
Oh dear I'm sorry you had such a hard time.
Gosh, total nap refusal! Well done for getting him to bed early though and he did pretty well didn't he? I would have expected a lot of OT NWs based on having had only one nap!
So, it's a bit of a mystery. I'd be tempted to put down as some sort of blip and not think too much about it.
It's not totally unheard of for a LO to drop to one nap extremely early but it is very unusual.
What are your feelings on moving forward?
I wonder if capping the first nap would help to create a longer second A time to fit the second nap in? I didn't like to cap my DS's nap at all so it's not something I am really keen on myself but I don’t see how you can fit 2 naps in if he is UT after 3.5hrs second A time :-\
-
I was thinking the same myself, especially after only 40 min nap this afternoon after 3hr30. He has been awake since 2.20pm on a 40 min nap and seems absolutely fine! And no, no nws last night!
I'm thinking
S 10.45 to 12.15
S 4 til 45
Bt 7.30
Or I could try
S 10.30 to 12.15
S 4 to 4.45
Bt 7.30 would that be a late enough Bt after 45 mins nap, I just don't know with him!
If he continues to wake at 5/5.35am am I definitely doing the right thing keeping him up til normal nap time?
-
I'd go with the first one the 10.45...after a good go at it you can always change again if needed,it's not set in stone.
If he continues to wake at 5/5.35am am I definitely doing the right thing keeping him up til normal nap time?
If he continues to sleep relatively well at night but have the early wake up then you might perhaps be able to move the day on to shift BT and WU although I doubt you want BT any later either. I mean if he can do 11 hrs overnight consistently that would be great wouldn't it?
The routine does look on the short side for naps but he could just be a month or two ahead of the guidance times and he could settle down really well into one long and one short nap with a good night sleep. I do think it's worth a try.
-
Great ok. Yes if we can achieve 11 hrs at night that would be amazing but although he did it last night it seems a way off to be honest. I'll see what happens in a couple of days.
-
Good luck. I've got my fingers crossed for you!
-
Thanks! I woke from morning nap at 12. 15 after 1hr30 so fingers crossed he goes down ok for next one.
-
Oh for goodness sake, I think he is going to sleep longer than 45mins! I can't win! I tried to get this sleep longer and couldn't, then decided it was better to be short and now he has extended it! Don't know when to let him sleep til or when to do Bt so he's not ut. Arrhhh!
-
Got you on your toes eh?
Well, I can only recommend that you record what happened and look to see what happens over night. If it happens again we may see a pattern which could help us work out if he needs two long naps or one long one short.
Hope you figured something out for BT xx (I'm sure you did)
-
Yeah I'll say, I have no idea what I'm doing with this boy!! He woke himself after 50 mins which was 4.40pm. I was going to stick with 7.30 Bt but dh put him soon at 7.15 as he said he could hardly keep him awake. He fell asleep pretty much straight away. Fingers crossed for tonight, we had a horrible nw last night, I don't fancy a repeat!
-
I don't know whether to stick with this or try something else. He is so tired all the time. He falls asleep at 9am on school run and falls asleep on mid morning, afternoon and bed time bottles. He also falls asleep the second we get in the car which is making it difficult to go anywhere. We are still getting between 10 and 10hr30 nights which is obviously just not enough. I'm not sure what to do.
He's a complete mess this morning, rubbing his eyes and crying all through his 7am bottle. I really need some help.
-
Ok I'm sorry for all the posts but I just need to get this out. I dont know which direction to go in with him. My head is spinning with so many different things.
Should I stick to what I'm doing and he has a massive A to to 1st nap and ends up with a really long day? Or Should I bring 1st nap forward? Should I do a later bedtime to ensure he is tired enough after last nap but then his day is ridiculously long? Should I do early Bt and hope he doesn't wake even earlier? Is he waking through ut or OT? All these questions running through my head and I don't know any answers. It's not so much the actual wake up time (although I don't like it) and more to do with whether he is getting enough sleep. Today he fell asleep at 9.10 on the school run and I couldn't wake him so left him til he woke at 11.10. Now his next nap is due when I'm on school run so he will have to have an early one or a late one.
Again I'm so sorry for going off on one, I just need to get it out!
One thing I did notice is that when he was sleeping til 7am he was having 1hr30 night wakings so technically of 10hr30 night sleep then too.
-
It's ok, you off-load xx
I think I am swayed by knowing that mine only did 10.5hr nights and that looking for longer was just to put myself through stress and worry that he wasn't getting long enough over night, but he literally could not do more.
Not sure what time he woke when he was crying and eye rubbing at 7am, could it be that he is actually still having a 1.5hr night wake but that it has moved later? So he is waking say 5.30am and by 7am ready to sleep again to finish his night sleep?
Are you even in a position to let him sleep at 7am? With the school run I mean, I imagine your morning is pretty strict on timing to get everyone fed, washed and dressed to get out in time. Could he sleep 7-8.30 for instance if it was to happen again and then literally just lift him up to dash out to school??
-
He woke at 5.30 this morning after a 10 hour night. I don't know about the night waking just moving, and I just wouldn't have the time to put him down properly with wind down etc at 7. How would that impact the rest of the day anyway?
I'm wondering if this ot really started after he refused that nap. He didn't used to act tired at 7am after a 5/5.30 wake up. Is it possible it's come from that?
To be honest I'd be OK I think with consistent 10hr30 night but we get 10hr too. When yours did 10hr 30 nights, how much was he getting in naps?
-
I don't remember exactly which routine we were on at 7 months but it was likely 2hr morning nap then 2 x 40 min CNs although by then it might have been 2hr morning and 1 x 40 min CN, sorry that isn't particularly helpful as I don't remember without searching the threads from 4 years back to see what I was doing.
How many days has he been falling to sleep at 9am ish? is it just one or two?
Thing is with a 5.30am WU that's 3.5hr A time which is kind of okay, it's just at the wrong time of day!
IIWM, if he has an EW over the weekend and is tired at 7 or any time before I'd try to get him back down for a sleep. Wake him at 7.30/8am to start the day and class that extra sleep as part of a broken night. This would give you a chance to have a 'get back on track' day where his nap would then come at a more reasonable 10.45/11.00/11.15 or even 11.30 and hopefully the rest of teh day would start to bring you back on a better routine before Monday's school run.
Sorry this is so hard right now.
-
Thank you so much for your help, I really do appreciate it.
So his routine is basically the same as you had with the 2hr am and 40m pm which makes me feel better! And if I can get 10hr30 night instead of 10 then it will be OK I think. What A time did you have after the 40 min nap, can you remember? He wakes usually at around 4.30pm/5pm and that seems late in the day compared to other kids, but I suppose it's cos he has long A times.
When he wakes early would you try a feed and back down? I've no idea if he would go back down.
I'll see if he continues to be tired at 7am, I'm sure it only started after he missed that nap so hopefully won't last. To be honest he always wants to fall asleep around 9 on the school run, but today he really did and I couldn't wake him. He slept 2 hours then went back down 3 hours later for 55 mins.
Another thought, if we manage to get back on track to where we were, won't we just end up in the same position again? So if I manage to get naps back to 10.45 and 4pm.wont he just end up doing the short nights again as that's the easy we were on when they started? Hope that makes sense? Or should I start a new easy based on his current wake time and then if he starts doing longer nights try to shift it later?
-
What A time did you have after the 40 min nap, can you remember?
Honestly I do not remember exactly our different routines at different ages.
I do remember my DS always had a very short last A time. Whilst i can't remember his times something like a 2hr last A time sounds like that's what he might have done (long first A, long nap, then either 2 40 min or 1 40 min nap, I think at 7 months it was likely two and then in another couple of month maybe 1 CN, short last A to BT and quite a short night). I'm trying to remember what time he ate after his CN, I think he woke something like 4ish and dinner about 4.15/30 and I think BT was 7 with WU about 5/5.30am.
We did not have a perfect routine btw ;)
Another thought, if we manage to get back on track to where we were, won't we just end up in the same position again?
Let's see where he is up to in a couple of days, let him have a chance to catch up if he is OT and see if any of this is permanent or was a one off. If he wants to nap earlier, say 9am, every day and sleep for 2hr it isn't really a problem other than it encourages him to keep waking very early which I'm sure you don't want.
When he wakes early would you try a feed and back down? I've no idea if he would go back down.
Just thinking it could kick start an improved routine so really it's just one day it needs to happen so that he can have a sleep then wake (you cap if needed) a decent A, nap at a reasonable time...so that the whole day can move on and by Monday he is waking a bit later and not nodding off on the school run.
it's a bit of a long shot but it could work.
-
I really hope it's that easy! It just doesn't seem like he will suddenly start sleeping longer nights doing the same routine he was on with the short nights iyswim? Sorry you must think I'm a right pain! I'm just getting myself confused as I kind of thought it was his original easy that was causing the ew in the first place.
-
Ok so he had a nw at 3am til 4am self settled without me. Woke at 5.45 I fed but wouldn't go back to sleep. It was a 10hr15 night. Got him up at 6.30. Tried to put back down at 7. Wouldn't sleep. Then fell asleep on the carpet at 9.50. I think I'm breaking him! I don't know whether I should be keeping him up to normal nap time or am I doing more damage?!
I'm going to persevere with feeding when he wakeswakes and putting him back down. Do you think it's possible it will start to work if I keep at it?
-
Yesterday ended up like this
7th
Wu 5.45
Oob 6.30
S 10.15 to 11.45
S 3.20 to 4.40
Bt 7.30
Wu 4 45 to 6 45 fed at 5am
Wu 7.10
So we had 10hr45 night sleep which I'm happy with as I don't think we are going to get to 11 hrs so aiming for 10hr 30.
He seems a lot happier this morning so far. I think I'll go for nap just before 11 and go from there. Do you think that's a good idea?
Sorry for being such a drama Queen lately, I've told myself to calm down!
-
Wu 4 45 to 6 45
Is this a 2hr NW??
It just doesn't seem like he will suddenly start sleeping longer nights doing the same routine he was on with the short nights iyswim?
I don't think I'm suggesting the same routine. But he stopped the NWs shortly after this thread started didn't he, and then started waking early instead of having long NWs.
And skipped a nap...
If feeding at 5am gets him back to sleep for a bit more night sleep I think I'd go for that, only really because I would have with mine, I hate the early starts but DS wouldn’t eat when he woke and certainly wouldn't go back to sleep so it wasn't an option for me.
Is the room blacked out well? Could the seasons changing and different light be having an affect do you think?
-
Sorry that was meant to say 4.45 to 5.45! Awake for 1 hour. I'm happy to keep feeding at 5, definitely.
Yes you are right the long nws stopped and we had ew instead. Then after about a week of that he skipped the nap. Then that's when the ot hit I think. He wasnt too bad before that I don't think.
His room is total blackout!
So I'm thinking 10.45 nap which is what we were going for before the ot hit. What do you think? For up to 2 hour or cap at 1hr30?
-
Sorry that was meant to say 4.45 to 5.45! Awake for 1 hour. I'm happy to keep feeding at 5, definitely.
Ah 1hr - that's much better. I know feeding at 5am is not as nice as sleeping at 5 am but going back to sleep until a reasonable time is good though :)
OK, he woke at 7.10 so I think I'd be tempted to go up to 11am nap I think you suggested this at one point too? I just don't want his first nap to come too soon and his wake up time to get earlier or even refuse to go back to sleep after the 5am feed. What do you think? That would be close to 4hr A though, it sounds very long but he seemed to be doing that and a good nap didn't he?
I'd see if he does 2hr nap then a CN later on.
Would it look something like this or do you feel the afternoon and BT wouldn't be suitable??
Just wondering what your routine might look like and trying to allow for the shorter night. I wonder too if that 5am feed could move to 7am if BT went later.
WU 7
A 4
S 11 - 1
A 3 or 3hr 30
S 4 - 4.30 or 4.30 - 5 or even 4-5 ?
A 3hr
BT 8
Sorry I don't have all the answers - but you are with him and have a much better idea of how things are going and what your own feeling is about it. x
-
Ok, I'll aim for 11!
He hasn't really done a 4hr A before, not on purpose anyway! But I'll give it a go and see how he does. We would ideally like a Bt no later than 7.30, but I would do 8 if it meant he slept in later. However when we have done a 7.30 Bt it doesn't seem to lead to later Wu. It's been a mixed bag Really, sometimes a better Wu, sometimes not, sometimes a nw then a better Wu. So I'm not sure really.
-
If you look back at 29th April posts (# 4 and 5) he had 4hr first A and napped fine. You also said the afternoon nap was kind of set and anything to 4hr A passed before that set nap time...and the next post he is awake 5.30 ish to 10.30 ish making a huge 5hr A.
I don't want to guide you in the wrong direction and perhaps I'm not being any help, only looking at things that have happened before and thinking now you got a better Wu time today how can we try to keep things moving in the right direction.
I will be gutted if what he needs is a dramatically shorter A time and I am guided you down the wrong path here.
-
Ah yes I see what you mean with the 4 hours A! I just didn't really think of them because I didn't do them on purpose iyswim!!
We won't know if he needs shorter As unless we try longer ones right? To be honest he is going to have to do longer ones because shorter ones don't fit in well with the school run! They always seem to end up with second nap falling around 2 to 3pm.
With regards to later bt, if I stick with 7 30 and Wu starts to get later (will it take a few days to happen or should it be straight away?) then I could start moving towards 8? If 7.30 doesn't help Wu then I could stick with it or go earlier? Wdyt?
-
Honestly if it was me I'd see if he could do a longer second nap (just dont' cap) for one day and then go right to a later BT. sorry I know you dot' want 8pm, I just know I was trapped with 5/5.30am WUs because I never got BT later, mine would be begging for his BT and I just feel now if I had extended just one (or a few days) of naps to get a later BT things could really have been different for us.
If he is not going to do longer than 10hr 30 night or 11hr night then it's either later BT or earlier WU.
So, long nap if he will so that the last A is not too long, later BT and then almost set the routine to make sure it fits with school. meaning that the second nap can be a CN but for a day or so just see if you can move the day on later by giving a longer nap if he'll take it.
Sorry, I may be of no help at all :(
-
You are helping! I see the theory and I will try it at 8 pm then. If he still wake early then I will feed and hopefully he'll drop back off to keep day on track? Is that right?
I don't understand though what you mean about getting a longer nap in pm and then going back to a catnap? If he does 11 til 1 today, then 4.30 to 5.15, could I not do an 8pm Bt then? Sorry if I'm being thick! X
-
So naps went wrong yesterday but had a great night! This is how yesterday ended up looking
Wu 7.10
S 11 to 12.10 pushed him too far maybe?
S 3.20/3.30 not sure, dropped off in pushchair til 4
Bt 7, asleep at 7.10
Wu 5am for a min then dropped back off
Wu 6.10
So 11 hours sleep, Yay! I'm pretty happy!
Now the question of what to go for today!
-
I see the theory and I will try it at 8 pm then. If he still wake early then I will feed and hopefully he'll drop back off to keep day on track? Is that right?
Yes that's my thought.
I don't understand though what you mean about getting a longer nap in pm and then going back to a catnap? If he does 11 til 1 today, then 4.30 to 5.15, could I not do an 8pm Bt then? Sorry if I'm being thick!
No you are not being thick. What I mean is if other things happen such as you can't resettle in the morning (or feed and resettle, yk at 5 ish) to get a later WU so the day starts much earlier. or if the morning nap ended up being only 1hr 30, or if it ended up being at 9am on the school run instead of later...so anything that throws the day off and would end up in an earlier BT. So if any of that happens you can try for a longer pm nap (ie not cap it, see if he can do longer instead for that day, if you look at the times on that day you might even be able to extend the A a little bit to prompt a longer nap rather than a shorter one) to help you get through to BT. The idea is to keep that BT that bit later so that his 10-11hr night doesn't start too early.
Well, gosh, I have no idea what to suggest after seeing yesterdays wrong naps and great night!! Maybe the feeding and resettling at 5am for a few days has had an effect?? Maybe he just doesn't need much day sleep?? So 1hr 10 ish and 30-40 mins and he manages to do a full night with no OT waking. If he could do that every day that would be great hey? I suspect it's a one off though.
Hmm... if you push him to 11am it's 5hr A time which is very long.
And now i'm looking at the time thinking you maybe already have him down for a nap now at 10am for a 4hr A time.
-
Ah that makes total sense now thanks!
I am going to put him down at 10 45 which is 4hr45 A. No idea if that's the right thing but as you say the later Wu could be from resettling after the 5 am feed but could also be from having a sort of set nap at around this time so thought I would stick with it! Hope it turns out Ok!
I also think last night was a one off!
Just want to say thanks for all your time that you are giving me, I really appreciate it. I'll let you know what happens with naps today. Fingers crossed I haven't ruined this morning nap.
-
I am going to put him down at 10 45 which is 4hr45 A.
FWIW this is also what I would do. It is quite hard to say to someone "give your 7 month old a 4hr 45 A time" as it seems so long but I agree, the set nap time (well almost set) is habitual and as good a time as any to give nap a go.
Good luck and I hope it works out.
Did you feed at 5am this morning or did he literally just wake then go back to sleep?
-
Just woke for a min or 2, I was about to get up and feed and all went quiet! Back to sleep til 6.10 with no intervention from me.
Good to know you would have done the same x
-
I'm back and things are still not good. the problem is thatthat he is permanently tired. We are getting less than 10 hours sleep due to an hour long nw and 6am start. I keep him up til 10 in the morning and that is a struggle. He sleeps 2 hours with a few ot noises. He is miserable all day and falls asleep in seconds when in the pushchair or car. Here are the last 2 days
Wu 6.10 to 6.30 not sure!
18th
Oob 6.40
S 9.50 to 11.30
S 2.20 in car, transfered to cot til 3.10
Bt 7
Wu 3 to 4
Wu 6 10
19th
Wu 6. 10
S 10 to 12.15
S 3.50 to 4.30
Bt 7.30
Wu 4 to 4.45
Wu 6.10 to 6.30 on and off
20th
Oob 6.30
S 10 to 12 Wu at 40 mins I resettled
S 2.45 in pushchair after less than 3 hours A! Only been walking 10 mins! Thats where we are up to now, he will only sleep 30 min in the pushchair.
I should say that he is teething at the moment too.
What can I do?
-
Oh dear :(
I thought those NWs had stopped. When did they start again?
Have you tried meds before BT or a dream-meds for the teething?
Do you feel an earlier first nap may help?
-
I thought they had finished too. They have been for the last 2 nights although to be honest he has been mega tired even before they popped up again.
I have not ever done a dream med, would he not splutter and choke?!
To be honest with a earlier first nap, I did try a week or so ago. But to fit in 2nd nap to finsh before school run I had to cap 9.30 to 10 which made him more OT! I can't just let him sleep as long as he wants at 9.30 as nap 2 would likely fall in the middle of the school run.
I feel like I can't win. Maybe the nws are teething and will stop soon. I'll just have to put up with OT til then?
-
Oh dear, I'm sorry. there must be a way thorugh this but it's so hard to see.
With the dream meds, if you use a syringe for paracetamol you can tell him whilst he is sleeping "I'm going to give you medicine" and just put it to his lips and see what happens, you can push the syringe in his mouth a little if he doesn't open up and only push out a tiny bit. Mine kind of half woke and took the meds.
Actually this has made me think...some times a W2S at your BT can help shift NWs. Maybe worth a try? a light nudge or stroke just to kick start a new sleep cycle.
-
Ok I will try both of those things, thank you. I feel like I just need a bit of consistency to the afternoons to get bed time the same time for a week or so. I think that would help me see a pattern with nws and Wu times. But everytime I leave the house in the afternoon he falls asleep so Bt ends up being different every night. He is starting nursery in 2 weeks so I'm sure it will be all change again then anyway!
-
Oh yes, nursery is going to change things.
He will likely be more tired. Have you been able to speak with them about nap times etc? It might be useful to start him on their routine rather than try to find your own routine and then shift it again.
-
They will do whatever routine he has at home, although I doubt he will do the same to be honest!