i can't take it anymore, 14 month won't settle to sleep and CIO doesn't work

[Lovejoy]

we generally had probs putting lo to nightime bed from beginning really, but eventually at about 8-9 months she settled into sleeping after bedtime routine (she's always been a good to nap baby)
her routine was:

wake: 7- 730am
eat: 8.00
Nap:  10-10.30
Wake:11.30/12
Lunch: 12.00/12.30
Nap:   14.30/1500
Wake 15/15.45
Eat:   1700
Bedtime routine 18.30
Sleep:  19.00

She had a chest infection and then teething which made her unsettled for bed.  We had to try controlled crying, that worked, but then she got another cold.
Since then we've tried controlled crying (over 2 weeks) it takes over 1 hr to exhaust her to sleep, she wakes up in night and won't settle herself so it takes an hour to settle her then,
We're not happy with CC, cos it doesn't work and frankly it's horrid to put her through it.  I want bedtime to be a nice moment for her not her tiring herself out.  (sometimes she is playing up)

What can we do?  (It's not seperation anxiety)

Please help

[andibig]

Lovejoy
Please don't use CIO!!!!its a horrible way to get them to sleep and as you said it doesn't work.
its quite normal for LOs sleep to take a while to get back on track after illness and teething-even with previously great sleepers.
Her NW and being unsettled at bedtime could be a combination of things.
1)as i said it can take a while for sleep to get back on track after illness
2)CIO has backfired-as in shes now worried you are going to leave her to CIO at bedtime and thats why shes unsettled then.therfore you could try gradual removal to regain her trust again.
3) could be ready to go to 1 nap

i think personally (IMO) i would try gradual removal to build the trust up again.i'll try and find a link for you about it
HTH
Andrea

[Jaime]

i agree with Andrea - i think Gradual withdrawal is the way to go.

It's not seperation anxiety)

well, it may not be true SA, but after a couple of weeks of CC, it kinda is about separation anxiety, in that she is worried about being separated from you, and you not returning if she needs help.

here is a link on gradual withdrawal:
https://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63896.0

(((HUGS))) and HTH

[Lovejoy]

Won't she be dependent on us being in the room with her to sleep?  I mean when she wakes up won't she freak cos she thinks we've abandoned her?

so even when she wakes up the middle of the night i should do this gradual withdrawal?

[Jaime]

sorry if we weren't clear before!   

the first couple of nights, you actually would sleep in her room the entire night, right next to her crib/bed (hence the oh-so-cozy air mattress).  that way, if she does wake up, you will be right there to reassure her & calm her down. 

after a night or 2, you will be able to go one of 2 ways (you will need to feel her out since you know her best)
- stop sleeping there altogether, or
- gradually move your mattress farther & farther from her bed over the course of a couple more nights (again, staying there all night), until you no longer stay in there until she is asleep. 

the reason you would stay in there all night the first couple nights is to help rebuild that trust.  you are correct in that this can easily become a prop, but i don't think you intended to stay there permanently 

hopefully that clears things up a little?? 

[andibig]

sorry if we weren't clear before!   

apologies as well
you get so used to everybody knowing the BW techniques round here!!!

we used gradual withdrawal with sasha after a bout of gastro.after her illness we were still stuck with the NW and this really worked well for us

[Lovejoy]

please don't apologise, thanks ladies for advice, i'm being a bit  with it!
Can you explain how us being in the room with her is making her sleep independently? 
Also, I'm trying this today, but my dd was being excited about me being in the room, and just started playing, and babbling...i ignored her so as to not stimulate her

[Katet]

You being in the room isn't about independant sleep to start with it is about her getting her emotions back in order after the CC has messed up her brain chemicals & made her so distressed that she can't relax enough to sleep.
Once she learns to relax with you there, you then take steps to show her how to relax when you aren't quite so physically there.
To give you an analogy... you are being trained in a new job, your trainer is there 100% of the time to start, but as you learn the skills they stay near by, but as you become more confident they remove themselves (returning when you request help) until the point you can pretty much do it on your own.
So once she falls asleep with you in the room, with intereaction only when she is upset, you can start being less involved (close to the door) or even trying to leave if she is happy & calm... you return immediately she gets upset & only leave when she is calm... eventually over time you can leave after the bedtime routine & she will happily go to sleep without you there.
the beauty of this method is when things like teething/illness happen, you can still do it (like I am at the moment) & it always works.

[owelley]

Some of our lo's here if not all, have been out of sorts and clingy during an illness.  I love KAte's analogy of independence.  To get you lo to be independent, you first have to gain back his confidence.   Good luck and I hope you all some good sleep soon! 

[Lovejoy]

good analogy!

how long does it "normally" take?
I will have to do the move out rather than move away from her as her room is small - i'm sleeping in blankets as not enough space for even a mattress. 
Will stick with it.

[Katet]

Honestly, how long is a piece of string? , I couldn't say how long it normally takes, I just tend to do what is needed & have never looked at how long it takes.
I'd think you probably would probably wouldn't need to sleep in the room more than 1 night if you respond really quickly to night wakings... but stay in there until she falls asleep for at least 4-5 nights for bedtime & wakings or longer if she still isn't settling easily.
This time around with ds#2 (due to teething & overtiredness/routine changes due to holidays) we are on day 8 of me staying in the room to comfort him at bedtime... he doesn't tend to wake at night, so I'm only in there 15mins or so at his bedtime... I probably could try to leave with him awake, but I want to wait until after NYE & the last part of his eye teeth finishes cutting.

[Lovejoy]

well the good thing is at the moment there aren't tears at bedtime.  The bad thing is it's taking well over an hour to about 2 hours after being put down, while she fights sleep, changing position & constantly getting up to look around, even though she knows I'm there?  After being sleepy downstairs, during bedtime routine etc. & then she gets second wind once put down?

[Katet]

Sounds like it might be time to transition to 1 nap.
Since her am is the longer, one, try delaying that a bit & then limiting her PM to 30mins.
7pm bed to 7/730 wake is a a long night sleep for a baby still on 2 naps so I'm actually not surprised she is finding it hard to settle, Most babies who sleep 12 hours at night tend to move to 1 nap around 12- 14mo.
The average sleep needs at 12mo is 13.75hours, & at 18mo is 13.5, so looks like she is over that amount with 2 naps.
If you really like the 2 naps then maybe try 1/2 hour earlier wake up & half hour later bedtime. so she gets 11-11.5 hours at night

[Lovejoy]

i ne er force her to sleep, she does the tired  cues for morning and pm naps and then that's always a 3 hour A gap between each wake up and nap.  I then take her up to bed when she's showing signs of tiredness for bedtime, doing a wind down. 

What should i concentrate on, GW or shortening her naps? Or can I do both without totally jumbling up everthing even more.

Sorry to be so idiotic with all this!

[andibig]

I would (in my opinion) would cocentrate on the GW. others may disagree. once shes certain you are not going to leave her to CIO she may settle quicker. if then shes still taking a long time to settle at night then it would be time to take a look at her naps.
i will mention when we dropped Sasha down to 1 nap she would still show tired signs at her original am nap time. but she wasn't really tired enough to take her nap (if that makes sense) so i would take her out for a walk in her buggy so at least she was getting some rest tme.
HTH
Andrea