thinking about adding formula...please help

[Stacie:Emma&Josh Mom]

I might just be looking for some encouragewment and reassurance as we started off doing so well, but I'm seriously considering adding formula now and I know that might not be the best thing...here's the situation...

1.  I cannot seem to get ahead of ds at all in regards to pumping and I go back to work part-time in 2 weeks.  Every time I pump, ds wakes up hungry and I have to give it to him.  Plus, I am not getting as much pumping as I did last week or the week before.  Giving him what I pumped is not enough so I put him on the breast to get more and I still don't think he's satisfied...  Plus I can't go anywhere without him and it's hurting my sanity a bit like even just to the store.  He takes forever to eat and then there's not time to go somewhere and get back with his 2-hour schedule.

2.  All day today and some this early morning, he has not seemed satisfied.  Now I realize we could be hitting the 6-week growth spurt, but I don't know that I'm keeping uo though I feel like he's at the breast all the time, which of course isn't allowing me much sleep.  I know that's what needs to happen in a growth spurt, but when does your milk level adjust and how do you know it is working.  Thoughts on helping supply???

3.  How do you know when they're done eating???  Seems like a silly question, but I can't figure him out.  He used to never let go so I started tasking him off when it's been atleast 20-25 mins AND he doesn't seem to be swallowing anymore after waking him continuously.  But now I keep wondering if he's satisfied and wondering if he's hungry every time he cries afterwards and if he's getting a full feed to start getting past that 2 hour mark.  Plus lately he's been bobbing off a lot, but still rooting so I have to keep putting him back on and he's having trouble latching as quickly as he used to, though he's still got a good latch.  It feels as though my breasts aren't very full so I have to hold them just right for him to get latched i.e. squeeze them into a sandwich for him until he's latched.  Then it's so hard to tell if he's still swallowing on top of him falling asleep constantly.  When he first starts feeding, I can hear him gulping, but then later I can't figure out what just a normal swallow sounds like.

4.  He's still doing a 2-hour schedule and it just might kill me (except for 1 or 2 longer stretches at night up to maybe 4 1/2 hours).  I really can't tell if he's getting enough or if he's just a 2-hour baby right now.  I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel...  How many wet/poopy diapers should they have at almost 6 weeks??

5.  With his short schedule, he obviously doesn't sleep very long and I can't decide if it's a sleep issue or if he's really hungry and it's a hunger issue that I just have to deal with right now until he stretches it out a bit, but either way, no nap time for mommy and some rough nights.

It just really seems like we've gone down hill in the past 2 or 3 days and I was hoping to start going uphill i.e. stretch the feeds out a bit and get some pumping going and maybe some sort of routine.  I'd even take 2 1/2 hours between.  This 2 hour schedule is killing me and not allowing time for me to pump even if I could figure out when/how to do it.  I'm starting to wonder if there's a way I could do some bfing and some formula feeding, but I also know that once I start formula, it might become a slippery slope.  I'm just hitting a wall I think of wanting to get some freedom from him or atleast of not having to leave the group when out somewhere for atleast an hour to feed him.  My toddler just won't sit around a dressing room for that long.  Please help or just remind me this doesn't last forever and that bf babies will go longer stretches eventually (before starting solids) and that I'll get some sleep sometime (I'm a big sleeper and can't get a decent nap since dh can't feed ds).  TIA

[Nicola_G]

Stacie,

Oh dear, hang in there!

First, let me say that it is such early days, I know how you feel (I had a terrible time initially with bf but I'm still at it, working full time and lo is nearly 7 months). Let me address each of your points at a time:

1. Try pumping one side whilst he's feeding on the other. You will need to prop him on a pillow under your arm in a "football" hold, but you will find you will have MUCH better success pumping if he's feeding on the other side as it will stimulate your let-down. And at this age, one side should be enough for him. Do you have a deep freeze? Start stockpiling your milk instead of feeding the EBM to him, you will need it once you return to work. Oh, and once you're back at work, you will need to pump at work at his normal feed times so as to keep your body producing milk at the right times.

2. You probably are OK with supply, but avoid letting him "snack" - make sure he's awake through the feed and he may need to take up to 30 minutes to empty the breast at this age. Emptying the breast will help with supply. If you feel he hasn;t emptied the breast, finish it off by expressing manually yourself (manual expressing for me yields far more than the pump). If you do think you have supply issues, drink a minimum of 2 litres of water/day, take fenugreek and blessed thistle, and maybe talk to your doctor about a script for maxalon (worked for me).

3. They are generally done eating if they've been on the boob an appropriate time for their age (probably 20-30 minutes at his age) and they've been awake the whole time and they start that fluttery sucking. This is not feeding, its comfort sucking. I would stick firmly to your routine - on the first day he may fuss from hunger because he HAS been snacking, but once you get him on the EASY properly, you will find that he WILL be hungry and will stay awake and take a full feed. Once he's got the rythm there will be no turning back.

4./5. At his age, he is just on the cusp of making some huge advances once he gets through this growth spurt. Hang in there, and try the EASY forum for sample schedules. 2 hour EASY is probably about right at this age, and by about 10 weeks you should see him sleeping through with 1 or 2 wakeups overnight.

As for formula, if you need it, do it. But bear in mind that if you supplement, your own supply will diminish because lo is not taking so much breast. I would stick with it, try to get into the pumping while he feeds and work on getting on a really good schedule.

[dkjokisch]

First of all, hang in there.  It will get better.  Second, if you think he's going through the six-month growth spurt, definitely continue bfing through that so your supply will adjust accordingly.

As far as supply goes, the best thing you can do is get as much sleep as you can (easier said than done, I know), eat well, and drink a TON of water.  When dd was that age, I had a big 24oz insulated cup, and I would try to drink one of those at each feeding.  It became part of our routine, and I didn't sit down to feed her without my water.  When dd was older (10mos or so), I tried a combination of fenugreek and blessed thistle once when she was sick and I was sick and my supply was definitely down, but it was hard to say if it really helped, and I don't know about taking supplements like that when your ds is so young.  I'll defer that question to someone else.

When I was pumping, I got the most in the early AM.  Usually I could pump some even if I had just fed her.  I also tried pumping when it felt like she hadn't emptied both sides.  I'd pump the second side.  Are you feeding from one or both sides at each feeding?  If you only feed from one side, you could try pumping the other while nursing.  I did that a few times, though I usually needed dh to help me get situated.

When you say 20-25min, again, is that one side or both?  We kept a log through 8wks, and at 6wks, dd was nursing ~25min on the first side and ~10min on the second side, with 7-8 feedings per day.  She would go about 2.5hrs during the day with two longer stretches at night (4-6hrs).

It will get better.  By about 8wks, when we stopped keeping track, she was only getting up once a night to bf between her last evening feeding at 9pm and the first feeding the next morning at 7am.  I was ok with feeding a bit more often during the day if it meant I got to sleep at night.

[daisymelan]

Stacie:   

{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}

First off, take a deep, well deserved breath. 

Ok, I think the advice offered by the other mamas is great.

I just wanted to share my experience.  My ds nursed every two hours during the day for the first two months.  At night he would stretch it maybe to 3 or 4 hours, but that was it.  But, for us, at the two month mark, he graduated to the three hour EASY.  I could tell he was finished by his sucking, but what the last mama said is about true for us.  A half hour or so for each nursing session.... yes, we do not much else but nurse in the early days.  Bfing at the beginning is hard, real hard... but so worth it.  I remember crying wondering if I would ever get more than an hour sleep, and guess what, it was over before I knew it.
 
Remember, babies root at that age, so it may not necessarily be hunger, he may just want to be sucking something.  Some use a paci, my ds loved to suck on the trunk of a stuffed elephant we had. 

I don't think he has a sleep issue, I just think he needs nursed often.  Especially if he has gone 4.5 hours at night. Wow, I'm jealous, I don't think my lo did that until he was much older.

You may want to pump as you nurse or right after you nurse to increase your supply.  If you just pump sparodically, your body doesn't know when it should be producing extra milk.

As for giving you hope, my ds started sleeping through the night with only a df at around 5 months.  At about 4 months I think we were only up once or twice a night, but it's different for everyone.

One last thing, when my ds was that young, I didn't hesitate to nurse him in public... I know that's a very personal thing, but I would hope your friends and family would understand.  I also didn't like missing the action, so I would just nurse the little guy in front of whoever I was with.  If you practice at home, you can become quite proficent at doing it in public.  But I do understand this is not for everyone and may not even be legal in all parts of the world.  But if you can do it, you may not feel that nursing takes away from the everyday as much.

But remember, it does get much easier from here on in.  Hang in there.  We're here for support.  Let us know what else we can do to help you.

{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}

[Stacie:Emma&Josh Mom]

Thank you ladies.  I know it will end, but it's so hard with little sleep.

He's been nursing on both breasts so I'm not sure how I would change that without messing things up at ths point, but I could pump afterwards each time.  Question though: If I pump after each time, will this make my supply think I will do that forever?  Will my supply increase for all feeds so I'll be engorged when I want to just pump2 times a day while at wok?  Should I just pump after one feeding each day and be consistent with it? 

I know I just need to nurse in public but I'm so worried about offending someone, like at church or in a restaurant, but they just take so long to eat that you don't want to leave the group.  Tips for keeping a toddler busy while pumping in public with no help around??  I just keep trying to avoid that situation. 

Yes, 20-25 mins each side and more if I let him.  It's good to know that the first side is usually longer and he's probably comfort sucking the second one at some point.  Is this also true if one side produces much more than the other (atleast when pumping)?  For some reason, I was trying to get him to take both sides equally, but I know switching sides the next time should equal it out...  Is it possible that he's done with that side when he bobs off at about 12 mins?  When he was littler, he was satisfied after a short time on each side, very efficient for so young.  Could I have "trained" him to keep sucking even after he's finished by trying to make sure he was taking full feeds in order to sleep longer?  Maybe I should let him be done and see what happens?  If he's supposed to be doing 20-25 min total, then 10-15 each side would be correct, right? 

I also need to drink more water.  I'm a water drinker, but I don't drink much in general so I need to do better.

I know he's probably just a 2-hour baby, but time has erased the early days of dd and I seem to have forgotten the early days although I do remember that they were rough...  Thank you for the encouragement.  I know it's the sleep deprivation partly talking and it's so good to have some support. 

[LisbonMom]

Hey Stacie,

Just wanted to share some stuff with ya:

 - When dd#1 was a few weeks old, the doc told us to supplement as she wasn't gaining enough weight. I was one-side feeding at the time so I switched to two-side and added formula to top off. About 2 months later she started taking less and less formula and about 2 months after that she had weaned herself off of it and became exclusively breastfed. Because I always offered the boob first and had her drain both sides I kept my supply up. I used Avent bottles, which are supposed to mimic the breast, so that may have been why she still nursed so well.

 - I personally hate nursing in public. I'm a very private person regarding my boobs  , so I don't mind going in the toilets to nurse. Also, one of the malls we go to has a Baby Center, with a private room for nursing. Other mommies can be there with you, but it still has a privacy feel to it.

 - I notice a big difference in my boobs when I drink plenty or not at all. I have a very high thirst threshold (meaning I'm totally dehydrated when I get thirsty), so I need to make it a conscious effort to get more fluids in. Drinking plenty of water may help you.

 - Also, rest is important because producing milk uses a lot of energy, I know with a toddler around and not sleeping at night this is very tricky, but get ALL the help you can to get some rest, even if it's just laying on the couch. Try some quiet activities with Emma, like making a puzzle.

 - And, adding to water and rest, RELAX. Again, easier said than done, but you won't go anywhere pumping if you're stressed out. Think positive thoughts and look ahead so you can take a breather and ease your mind. It will get better, like the other mamas said, and we all think it's FABULOUS that you want to bf your baby, so we're all here for you to get you through this. Sending some positive vibes your way:  !!!!

Sara

[Samuel's mum]

I'm sorry it feels tough. You've got a lot of things to think about at the moment - especially with going back to work and a toddler to think about. I don't have anything really new to say other than lots of people on this board will give you all the help they can!
Sam really liked to comfort suck and I found that after 'feeding' the sucking would start to get faster again and this was him moving on to comfort sucking. A midwife told me that he could be a baby with a 'high sucking need' and I would think about using a dummy/pacifier. I chose not to but I know that after around 6 weeks some people do introduce them and find that they help extend stretches.
If he does wake up after you've pumped I would avoid giving EBM that you've just pumped. Try putting him on the breast you haven't been pumping - you might be surprised. Then you could switch onto the one you have been pumping. Then you could always go back again - I know that sounds a bit crazy but it really can work.
The increased feeding that happens with a growth spurt rarely lasts for more than four days but the 6 week one is a biggy.
You will sleep again! This will get better!

[jaxnp]

Hang in there Stacie!  It will get better really soon, I promise.  You probably are right at that 6 week growth spurt, so for now just go with the 2 hour feeds.  If you want to pump, try right after the first am feeding--you should have extra then even after a feeding.  If you're not doing a dreamfeed, you could also do right before you go to bed.  It doesn't matter what time you do it as far as supply for pumping at particular times, so no worries there.  I bet things will even out in the next week or so with your supply, and then you should be able to try to stretch out his feedings.  The other thing that will probably happen soon is that he'll get a lot more efficient.  Right around this time, they start getting much quicker at the breast, which makes the time between longer and makes it easier for you to nurse in public.  Hang in there!  And you're right about the formula.  It really is a slippery slope and with your supply trying to adjust right now to his growth spurt, if you started formula, your supply would really suffer.  I promise it'll get better soon!