BabyWhispererForums.com
SLEEP => Night Wakings => Topic started by: bestsmilee on April 15, 2013, 19:00:04 pm
-
Well, we're back.
I don't know where to begin. Last I was on we were trying to tackle my 5.5-6 month old's horrific NWs. Things are better but we are nowhere near perfect. It seems to me that we are having some scheduling issues. When we were trying to tackle my LO's chronic OT I was consistently to up his A time. His A time now is about 3 hours. I was going to post a Q about how to stick to 4 hour EAS if A time is 3 hours and then S would only be 1 hour. I was confused on how this would be enough day sleep. Then I went to sample routines for 7 month olds (he isn't quite 7 months yet) and the A times there were between 2-3 hours! And their LOs had naps of 1.5-2 hours long. I have been able to put DS down for a nap at a little under 2 hours, usually when he's pretty cranky, and he will nap a considerable amount of time. So now I'm confused as to why it's been advised to keep increasing his A times when trying to fix OT?
His nights have never been good and while in the past it was advised to start the day at a set time (ie. to wake him up) I have recently thrown that notion out the window and once I did I was able to crack at his OT a bit. There was ONE day where he didn't wake up a mess and crying. That day was about 3 weeks ago now. Anyway, I can tell he's not so chronically OT now because he's more smiley and playful than he's ever been.
I am concerned though that the fact that he doesn't have a set WU or a set BT (I base his BT off his 2nd nap but have been sticking to an EBT for about 6 weeks now) is not helping him. I don't know how to stop the NWs. That's where we are.
It has also become impossible to put him back to sleep. So when he doesn't nap or wakes up early from nap - there is no sitting there trying to get him to calm down and sleep as he will start SCREAMING and I just can't bare it anymore as my ear drums feel like they will burst, oh and I'm afraid my neighbors will hear him. That's how loud he is. In the middle of the night, I can put him back to sleep about 50% of the time. But if he starts screaming, it's back to the breast.
We need advice over here!! Thanks!
-
Hi there, sorry you're still having a rough time!
Can you post your typical day like this:
E
A
S
(or if you don't have a "typical" day, just two consecutive days).
What time of night are the wakings happening, and what do you generally do at each one?
The sample schedules are just meant to give you an idea -- average A time at 7 months is 2 hours 45 minutes - 3 hours, so you're right in that range. When you get to a longer A time, you would generally feed twice in one A time (or 3 times if you're counting solids) and then have a longer period between feedings -- they're generally able to wait for it at that age.
-
Ok so I guess it would look something like this:
WU E 7
A
E solids 9
S 950
E (depending on when he wakes) 11:10
A
E solids 1
S 2
A
E 3
A
E solids 5
Bath
E 6
S 6:15
NWs have occurred at 9, 10, 10:30, 11, 12:30...(usually one of these times per night) - because I used to DF around 10, I usually feed at this WU point.
Then there's a WU around 1:45 let's say - and I can just whisper go back to sleep or rub his back and he usually falls back to sleep.
Then at 3:30 (today, and 4:30am yesterday) he got up - I tried to comfort but then it started to escalate into a cry so I tried to feed him. Since I'm trying to wean him off of this feed, I took him off after 7 minutes. He went down in the crib easily but would start whining/crying a few minutes later and then has been up for hours. Eventually not even 2 hours later I need to feed him again to calm him down, and then he usually goes back to sleep.
There was one night - the last night of our trip where he slept from 10:30-7 - the longest he had ever gone! Needless to say, I was up all night checking on him (well actually he started to get up around 1:30 or so, so I whispered go back to sleep and didn't hear from him the rest of the night). Then last week he went a 9 hr 40 min stretch between his feedings (he had slept around 8 hrs straight) and that was pretty cool too (he went from 7-3:30 about). So when these days occurred I tried to do exactly the same thing the next day, but to no avail!
The problem is though with writing out EAS - is that his WUs are never at the same time, neither are his naps. The durations of the naps are a gamble and so are his A times with getting him down to a decent nap. He also never falls asleep at the same time even if his BT routine is the same, at the same time. He just will go to sleep when he wants to. It's fine (although it gives me great anxiety as the clock ticks later and he is still awake), we leave him in the room and most of the time he will fall asleep eventually, but sometimes he will cry and we have to keep coming in the room. That's also confusing.
What do you mean feed twice during the A time? Can you give me an example?
-
I know you said your day shifts around a bit -- is your 13 hour night typical or is it usually closer to 12? (FWIW, I don't think I ever woke any of mine, I just let them sleep as they would -- but if you're consistently getting 13 hour nights (even with a waking in there), your naps would be expected to be on the shorter side of things.
Have you been able to find a connection between A time and nap length for that first nap at all? The second one would be a bit iffy if the length of the first nap changes -- how's he waking from naps -- I know you said it's impossible to extend -- is he happy when he first wakes and gets mad when you try to get him back to sleep or does he wake crying?
What were your indicators that he was ready to drop the night feed? He might just not be ready to do without -- wouldn't be all that unusual, I know that 2 out of my 3 were still needing a dream feed and a night feed at 7 months -- if you feed him and let him go the same amount of time as a "normal" feed, will he still wake 2 hours later? Will he go right back to sleep and stay asleep if you just feed him?
Feeding twice during A time -- happens when you get past 3 hours and your naps are longer -- so it would look like this:
E (milk) - 7
E (solids) - 8
E (milk) - 10
S - 10:30-12
E (milk) - 2
S - 3:30 - 5
E (solids) - 5:30
E (milk) + BT - 7 (probably BT closer to 8 with that later nap)
You end up with lots of feeding at this age -- I think that's part of the reason why I waited with mine to do 3 meals until closer to 9ish months, it was just too much of a pain to get it all in and milk is much more important anyway. You also realize that you lose the EAS and move to more of an EAES or EASEAE. You can also change it up a little and do something like this:
WU/E (milk) - 7
E (solids) - 8
S - 10:30-12
E (milk) - 12
S - 3-4
E (milk) - 4
E (solids) - 5
E (milk)/BT - 7
I tended to end up with a bunch of feedings clustered together at the end of the day as it was just how things worked out best. It gets pretty variable at this age!
-
Forgive me, I'm a little confused! Does 4 hr EAS completely go out the window at this age? If he's eating 3 times (2 nursing sessions) during one A period, how do I know he will be taking in enough milk at each session and not just snacking?
Have you been able to find a connection between A time and nap length for that first nap at all? The second one would be a bit iffy if the length of the first nap changes -- how's he waking from naps -- I know you said it's impossible to extend -- is he happy when he first wakes and gets mad when you try to get him back to sleep or does he wake crying?
No, not really. He can take a nice nap or barely settle, wake up after 30, 45, or 60 min etc. He most always wakes up crying.
is your 13 hour night typical or is it usually closer to 12?
Probably should have been clearer on this. His nights aren't 13 hours. For example, last night I put him down at 6:20 and he fell asleep at 7. He WU 10:30 (fed him), 1 and 2 (able to whisper back to sleep), and then at 3 (he wouldn't settle so I fed him and luckily he slept after) - WU 6:35 really upset for some reason. Shouldn't he be waking happy?
What were your indicators that he was ready to drop the night feed?
Hm, well what happened was that we were away and he had one terrible day and I was terrified to disturb him after we finally got him to sleep. Then the next few nights he would WU on his own to eat around that time so it may not have been the smartest plan but I decided to let him take the lead. Also, I was concerned the DF was disturbing him because it was never actually a "dream" feed because he would always wake up the moment I touched him.
Wait, that EAS (or EAES...) routine you posted is that for a 7 mo? Or an older baby?
We were off to a pretty good start this morning but then the gardeners came to trim the trees and woke up LO after 15 minutes and would not go back to sleep. After an hour 15 min of trying to go back to sleep (and 3.5 since his 1st feed) I decided to feed him (since 4 hr EAS not so important anymore?? confused mommy!) and the plan was to put him to sleep in an hour. Now he is happily sleeping while eating. :-\ No idea how to gauge the next nap now...
-
Forgive me, I'm a little confused! Does 4 hr EAS completely go out the window at this age? If he's eating 3 times (2 nursing sessions) during one A period, how do I know he will be taking in enough milk at each session and not just snacking?
Well, pretty much. As long as you're not nursing to sleep, you'll find that in order to keep your A time long enough to get good naps (which pretty much throws your 4 hours out the window since 3 hours A time + 2 hour nap = 5 hours!) and avoid snacking (you're still essentially only feeding 4 times during the day since solids aren't much for calories at this age anyway, more just for practice and entertainment!) your EASY gets kind of scrambled. And, in another 5ish months, you'll be close to 1 nap (if not there already) so you're totally on EAESAEAE then!
The sample was for a baby that could do 3.5 hours of A time -- which would probably be in the 8-10 month range (have you seen this: Average A times and "Is my baby ready to increase A time?" ) -- babies are very different at this age, it's hard to find one schedule that would fit all of them, so it's really a range and finding what works for your LO.
That being said, is it possible that he's overstimulated before naps and that's what's got him crying when he wakes? And, rereading, it could be that you're right and he does need a little less A time -- especially from looking at this: I have been able to put DS down for a nap at a little under 2 hours, usually when he's pretty cranky, and he will nap a considerable amount of time. So now I'm confused as to why it's been advised to keep increasing his A times when trying to fix OT?
Pushing through those longer A times in order to get longer naps and get rid of the OT is definitely one way that could have helped you originally (forgive me, I didn't see your original thread so I could be oversimplifying) -- but it's totally possible that you might need to dial back the A time a little bit and that might sort out things for you too. It's really hard to know when we're not right there.
What's his temperament? Honestly, some babies just don't wake happy until they're a little older. Has he ever woken happy?
-
What's his temperament? Honestly, some babies just don't wake happy until they're a little older. Has he ever woken happy?
Touchy/textbook. He has woken happy, just not very often. It's 99% of the time crying or whining.
As long as you're not nursing to sleep,
Except it does happen. He does not need to eat to fall asleep which is great but if his nap was terrible he will sometimes fall asleep nursing (like this morning). And sometimes at the bedtime feed, if he's really tired, he will fall asleep even if I try to keep him up because once I take him off to put him down he often becomes wide awake and doesn't settle for much longer!
-
Quote from: Erin M on Today at 02:10:14 PM
As long as you're not nursing to sleep,
Except it does happen. He does not need to eat to fall asleep which is great but if his nap was terrible he will sometimes fall asleep nursing (like this morning). And sometimes at the bedtime feed, if he's really tired, he will fall asleep even if I try to keep him up because once I take him off to put him down he often becomes wide awake and doesn't settle for much longer!
That's the truth. As long as he's not making a habit of it, it's fine.
What kind of a winddown are you doing before naps/bed?
-
What kind of a winddown are you doing before naps/bed?
For naps - diaper change, go into dark bedroom, walk around for a little bit and PD. For BT - bath, pajamas, feed, a story, 3 songs, and then leave the room.
As long as he's not making a habit of it, it's fine.
I'm worried because it's been happening more frequently since he will likely resist his afternoon nap and then be exhausted and it will be time to eat and he will fall asleep nursing.
-
I don't know what is going on. He doesn't seem to be teething so I don't think it's that. He seems to have been digressing in the sleep department and I can't seem to fix it. I've been trying early BT but it hasn't been working. I usually PD between 6:20-6:30 but he can stay awake in the crib for up to an hour before falling asleep. Some nights he will cry on and off until he falls asleep - other time he won't and we can leave him in the room by himself to fall asleep. Last night was pretty bad and resulted in a before 6am WU. Needless to say, the whole day was terrible and he was fussy and cranky the whole time. I once read on a sticky here that I should try a 5:30pm BT if he's OT. So I tried that. Did last feed at 5 then PD at 5:30 (no bath tonight). It is now 7:45pm and he is still awake. He hasn't been crying the whole time - just on and off. I tried when he wasn't crying to give him another feed but he barely took anything and basically just stared at me. Whenever we go in the room when he is crying or whines he looks up and smiles at us. I am so perplexed. Will my LO ever sleep again?! He must be so OT!
And any insight to why sometimes he ends up SCREAMING (!!!!) when we try to put him BACK to sleep. He calms down when we leave the bedroom and walk around with him. No sitting or anything else. My ears are hurting! Why is he screaming!?
-
What about discomfort -- teeth, new foods, temperature? Change of seasons/allergy-type stuff? That behavior sounds like something is bothering him -- and I'd say he either doesn't sound tired enough when you're putting him down (though I understand that he sounds like he's getting OT from the overall lack of sleep) or that something is keeping him from falling asleep.
-
If anything, my gut tells me he's screaming because he's so tired. But I keep looking for other reasons - no teeth, his body doesn't feel cold or warm...he is starting new foods slowly but I don't know if they are the culprits. As far as allergies - he doesn't have a runny nose and can breathe fine.
I'd say he either doesn't sound tired enough when you're putting him down
It seems that way, I know. But no matter if he woke up from a short nap at 4, or his nap at 2, he still doesn't fall asleep soon after we put him down. He does have a few stuffed animals in his crib as his lovies, do you think I should remove them? He sometimes falls asleep while he plays with them or hugs them. I wish I knew what is keeping him from sleeping!
-
He does have a few stuffed animals in his crib as his lovies, do you think I should remove them?
Mine haven't ever had a problem with them, but who knows? Might be worth a shot.
Does he take the same amount of time to fall asleep after you put him down regardless of the A time leading up to bed?
-
Does he take the same amount of time to fall asleep after you put him down regardless of the A time leading up to bed?
For the most part, I guess.
What went wrong here? Friday and Saturday we got pretty good naps in but still resulted in NWs...
Friday
WU 6 (considering this and EW)
E 7
A
E solids 8:30
S 8:55-10:30
E 11
A
E solids 12
A
S 1:30-2:30
E 3
A
E solids 4
Bath 5:45
E 6
PD 6:20
Finally fell asleep at 7:10
NWs pretty frequently but only did feedings at 9:30 and 3:30
Saturday
WU 6 (again considering it an EW)
E 7
A
E solids 8
S 8:45-10:00
A
E 11
A
E solids 12
A
S 12:30-2:30
E 2:45
A
E solids 4
A
E 5:45 but fell asleep nursing so was really awake after his feeding session (even if he only did nap 5 minutes)
PD 6:15
Finally fell asleep at 7:45 (!!)
NWs again...
Now it's Sunday and he got up at 6:15 and his naps and not really happening today. I'm so beyond confused.
I should add though that the NWs haven't been screaming NWs those 2 nights but I wouldn't say that they've completely stopped either.
If he's waking from any type of discomfort it's not so obvious (unless he's soaked through-where we change him immediately) and I'm not sure where to begin.
-
Has he always seemed to need the longer A before bed or is that just recent? I know you're putting him down much earlier than he's falling asleep, which is making me wonder if you're really late on his window and he's just OT then? I'm really not quite sure to be honest. Your A times are pretty varied throughout the day as well -- and some babies need that and some don't do well with it at all -- wondering if you can shift some and get more consistent A times? But you were worried about OT naps as well, right? Hmm...I think I'm just talking in circles here, really I'm just thinking out loud.
-
Thanks, I know you're just trying to help.
I try to be consistent but I need to readjust his A times based on his previous S time and if he is super cranky or not.
Yesterday's EAS went like this. What do you think?
WU 6:15 (actually he had been up on/off since 5 something, it was hard to remember or pinpoint a real WU time)
E 6:45
A
E 8 solids
S 8:55-10:15
E 10:45
A
E 12 solids
S 1-2:15
E 2:45
A
E 4:30 solids
Bath 5:30
E 6
Fell asleep 6:20!
NW 1: 9:30 fed
NW 2: 10-11:30 on/off for that hour
NW 3: 2:30 fed
NW 4: 3:30-4:15 woke up from the thunderstorm but wasn't upset and was playing a while and fell asleep on his own
NW 5: 5:30
WU 7...
And what would you recommend if he woke up from his 2nd nap super early? How do you adjust BT? I've been doing early BT for months now and I'm not sure if I'm considering it an EBT now...just regular ol' BT.
-
I've been doing early BT for months now and I'm not sure if I'm considering it an EBT now...just regular ol' BT.
This is entirely true -- it's not really considered an early bed time if you're doing it every night for months.
Your way forward is going to have to be to stretch the first A time especially, though that's pretty hard to do with a WU that early. With the on/off wakings too, that kind of messes with your A times as well -- you almost have to count from the time you get him up and add a little bit to see what kind of A time you're working with.
Have I asked you -- have you had any luck getting him back to sleep when he wakes early around 5-something by any means? Has he ever taken longer naps? My ds didn't really ever take long naps until he went to 1 nap so naps of that length would be right for him -- but some babies need longer ones. What's your sense on that one? Does he need more daytime sleep?
-
Well - maybe yesterday's EAS will answer some of your questions.
WU E 7
A
E solids 8:45
A
S 9:10-10:50 (slept earlier bc of the NWs)
E 11
A
E solids 12:45
A
S 1:45-3
E 3
A
E solids 4:30
Bath 5:30
E 5:45
BT fell asleep around 6:40 (PD maybe 6:15?)
I thought he had a really good day as far as napping and expected a good night. What we ended up with was a screaming baby all. night. long. He hardly slept.
NWs started at 9:30 (fed him) went back to sleep and then up again at 10:30 and on and off the entire night. It was awful. I finally thought he had gone to sleep with no UT/OT issues. I could not find a source of discomfort. I am totally confused. And sometimes when we played a little of lullaby music he would calm down and play a bit before becoming hysterical again. He screams, then smiles, then screams. Aah. What is wrong! Why are his nights so awful??
-
((((hugs)))) what a rough night! I can't imagine what was bothering him, though I would think there would have to have been *something* going on in order for there to be that much screaming? Is he generally happy during the day? Waking up from his naps happy? Ugh, I wish I could pinpoint a cause!
-
Me too - tell me about it!! Generally during the day he is okay - he plays by himself for a good amount of time but ends up fussing sometimes. Since he is a Touchy baby - his temperament has always seemed to make him a bit fussy. He doesn't always wake from his naps happy. In fact, it's so confusing. I am watching him on the monitor and I see when he wakes and he will pop his head up and look around and then start crying I guess when he doesn't see me so I'll hurry on into the room and even when he does see me, he doesn't stop crying. I pick him up immediately anyway after his nap but that doesn't calm him down right away - I have to walk out of the room and start nursing him for him to be totally okay.
As you can imagine, after such a rough night we had a bit of a wonky schedule today with a 6am WU but he took 1 nap from 9:15-10:45 and another from 1:40-3:00 but when I put him down for bed at around 6 he became so super hyper (he was NOT hyper at all when I was nursing him - he kept whining and bobbing on and off) he would not sleep. I tried staying in the room longer and rubbing his back and trying to keep him in place but he kept flinging himself all over the crib. He was so super hyper. He ended up SCREAMING again by 7:45 and so I picked him up and that didn't even stop the screaming. So I had to nurse him to calm him down and he was seemingly asleep (or just sleepy) so I put him down and he started crying again. Eventually though he fell asleep a few minutes later. It was not until 8:15 that he fell asleep. This is the latest he has fallen asleep in months. This has thrown me off - especially after the previous 2 nights of getting him to bed at a decent time (in a decent amount of time too after PD). He woke up 45 minutes later and luckily fell back asleep quickly. I am dreading the night ahead of us - I don't know what to do about these NWs!!
I let a relative who is a physician (not a pediatrician) and a parent listen to his cries to see if it sounded normal or not. The relative said that it sounds normal to them and that I am not used to it because I never let DS cry. ::) That only made me feel better because at least they didn't think something was really wrong or bothering LO. It still didn't solve the issue though. We are so attentive to every cry and never leave him in distress - why is he so upset and unsettled? Nursing helps calm him down - but the second he gets off, it's not like he goes straight to sleep. Often he is awake for a while, if not crying.
-
I'm sure I've asked this -- are you relatively low key during A times -- is overstimulation a possibility?
And are you in the middle of anything developmental right now?
-
I guess so - there isn't much that could overstimulate him as far as his A time. Last week, there was a day where he took a beautiful morning nap and then was happy when he woke up so I took advantage of the opportunity and did a few quick errands with him, coming back with enough time to WD before his nap. That outing for sure OS him because he did NOT want to nap after.
He's just starting to crawl. But to be honest, this has been going on so much longer than just now.
I went to the pediatrician yesterday because I started to worry about his screaming and to see if something was bothering him. Her conclusion was that he is super sensitive to the chronic teething and is feeling the pain from the teeth below the gums. It seems that no matter how perfect our A times are, this will always be a problem.
-
Ugh, that's no fun. We've had some moms on here who have LOs who are miserable teethers -- maybe you could start a post on Health, Medical, etc and see if you can get any ideas from there? I can't remember who they are off the top of my head, but I could definitely find you some if you start a topic there. What do you think of that?
-
That's a great idea - I'll head over there now to post.
Any quick advice on how to wind down LO for BT? He had a great day yesterday as far as moods and naps were concerned but when it was time for BT he was all wired again. We did a feed, his 2 books, 3 songs and even that doesn't seem to make him sleepy for bed. He gets so playful and was up for an hour and a half really hyper in his crib. Cute, sure. I get such anxiety each passing minute he doesn't fall asleep though. Guess it's my fear of him being super OT and inconsolable.
-
Do you do a bath at night -- or some nights? Do you find it makes a difference? You could try darkening the room or doing lower lights before bed to calm him down more. Maybe rocking him would calm him down some? Can you pinpoint anything that's getting him excited?
-
The only night he really doesn't get a bath is Saturday night. I'm not sure it makes much of a difference. For the past month or so, whenever he has gotten out of the tub and into pajamas he starts to cry and get really upset. This used to not be an issue. And he's always been pretty happy in the tub but this past Friday and a bit on Sunday he was upset so I cut the bath short. Hope it doesn't happen tonight too.
The bedroom faces west and is pretty bright at BT so we had covered the window with paper but I'm wondering if we should do another layer to make it even darker (since it gets darker later and later now). We don't put on any lights after bath. We go into the room, where it's dimmer but you can definitely see what you're doing, but need the lamp to read him his books. I'll try rocking him, that's an idea, but the rocking chair is in the other room - but I'll give it a go. He starts getting excited the second really I put him down on the bed to get him in his diaper and into PJs he rolls over immediately and tries to get away. He starts crying really when I start putting the diaper cream on and trying to keep him still. After the whole dressing scene, he calms down when he nurses - I found that when he falls asleep nursing he will be wide awake when he is done so I try to keep him up. (The same is true though even if he doesn't fall asleep. The ONE time that he slept from 10:30-7, I had nursed him to sleep and put him down and he actually stayed asleep. I tried that a few times when he's fallen asleep nursing, but he will wake up the second I put him down and start crying.) He really likes his sleepy time books - I try not to elongate the stories - I read through it quickly and put them away because he gets excited when he sees them. (I've also done some nights without the books). The songs don't seem to wind him down enough either. If I hold him too long before bed he starts to squirm away and so I'll put him in his crib and continue singing. He also moves everywhere in his crib - so when he's not playing with his stuffed animals - he will crawl to the other end of the crib and start looking around and down and everywhere and getting excited. Does he think it's play time? I've been doing this same routine for almost 4 months and at the beginning he used to fall asleep easily. I guess it's now that he's become more aware and more mobile that he's just too excited to sleep?
-
The mobility could definitely be playing a big part in his difficulties settling. Lots of times when they start to get mobile, they do lots of practicing at first. I assume he's getting lots and lots of floor time during the day to practice his new skills?
If he's getting upset in his room, I wonder if you might try getting his pajamas/diaper on in a different place for a few days just to break his cycle of being upset? You could spread a towel out on your bed or on the floor somewhere else.
What's in his crib right now?
-
The mobility could definitely be playing a big part in his difficulties settling. Lots of times when they start to get mobile, they do lots of practicing at first. I assume he's getting lots and lots of floor time during the day to practice his new skills?
Yes. But my DH and I always joke that he's more hyper at BT than he is during the day. He can play in his crib for hours it seems, while when he's on the floor (surrounded by tons and tons of toys) he gets whiny pretty quickly.
If he's getting upset in his room, I wonder if you might try getting his pajamas/diaper on in a different place for a few days just to break his cycle of being upset? You could spread a towel out on your bed or on the floor somewhere else.
Right now we've been doing it on our bed - it seems like the safest place since he rolls away really fast - it's really hard to dress and change him! He's so wiggly! I'll try the floor though and see if that will work.
All that's in his crib now are 3 stuffed animals.
-
Hmm, I'm going to ask around and see about him being hyper at BT.
Once mine got wiggly, I changed them on the floor most of the time -- it just was better for me, not having to worry about them rolling off the changing table all the time.
-
Asked around a little bit and the consensus was that being hyper at bed time was most often connected to being overtired or overstimulated. It seems like he's a really tricky one to get that last A time right -- there's another poster right now who has been having the same exact issue -- every time LO gets to the point of shifting schedule/dropping a nap, she goes through a run of NWings while she tweaks that last A time until she finds the right one.
-
Hm, I guess that makes sense. We went to the grocery store this morning but I made sure to get home at least an hour before his next nap - but I guess he's still OS because he is bouncy around his crib like he is an acrobat! I don't know how to tweak the last A time unless I'm putting him to bed at like 4-5pm! That seems absurdly early. 6pm is already an hour earlier than when he used to go to sleep. He is going to fall asleep nursing when I feed him next because he is currently not napping. This is becoming a habit and I want it to stop before it gets worse. Yesterday he napped on the breast for 20 minutes but on Sunday it was an hour. I don't know what today's will look like and how I could tweak the A time before bed so he settles easier.
Even yesterday only napping 20 min in the afternoon I did WD/BT at around 3 hr 20 min A time after that nap. I added a 10 min walk around the room to see if that would help settle him. I got no results. (And the previous day I rocked him while telling the stories and songs and that didn't help either). I'd love to find a way to just relax my DS. It also seems that the last few days I can't get him down for his 2nd nap after 3 hours A time and it seems to be messing things up with BT. (But there was an EAS I posted once with 2 good naps but he still didn't settle to sleep?)
Update: He was falling asleep nursing but the obscenely loud gardeners popped on by and woke him up. I finished feeding him and tried to put him down for a nap - he is just as hyper as before. So by BT he will have been awake since 11am. ???
-
Have I asked -- do you have any reliable way to get him to take a decent nap -- car seat, stroller, etc? I'm thinking that if you can APOP a decent nap in the afternoon, it would get you to a reasonably bed time. I totally get what you mean about not wanting to put him to bed ridiculously early.
-
Hi hon, just popping on to offer some encouragement and an extra pair of eyes. I think it sounds like a combination of OT, possibly OS, and developmental issues going on. Although, I did wonder reading through if there are any discomfort/intolerance issues, as you've worked so hard and never had good nights. :-\
Anyway, in your last post, you mentioned that there was an EAS with good naps and he still didn't settle, I think the last A was still too long at that point. My DD was a bit touchy with her sleep window and always liked her last A to be shortest. I wondered reading through if your DS might be similar.
Would you post your last few days' EAS to take a look at? Also wondering the same as Erin re: APOP...
(((Hugs))), I'm sorry this is still going on for you.
-
Hi :)
Just having a quick read through and your comment about 'tons and tons of toys' around him during the day jumped out and bit me on the nose. Basically, for a baby every toy is like a task - what you're doing by giving him loads of toys at the same time is like your boss in a bran dnew job giving you 20 different tasks and giving you no direction on what's most important, when anything's due, etc. That can be very overwhelming for a baby, as it would be for an adult - you may find he does better with 2-3 toys changed every 15-20min rather than loads of toys all available at the same time... it may help with the OS and him being hyper when he gets into his bed.
Also, really big tight hugs in a wind down can be very helpful in getting LO to release some of that hyper energy and relax ready for sleep - the body contact helps in some way.
-
Hmm, Bec's thoughts reminded me... I also wondered about reading 2 books and singing 3 songs before bed. We didn't add books to BT wind down until both kids were around 1yr, it was just too exciting for them (and neither are particularly touchy). I only ever sang the same lullaby, maybe twice or three times if needed, but didn't add other songs til they asked for it. :P. These obviously aren't issues for all babies, just some other thoughts on the OS side of things.
-
Agree with Katie on the books front - DS is 2 and we're just starting to be able to do books in his pre-bed WD now - way too exciting before now, though he's a spirited fellow.
Something else you may want to consider is increasing your A times just a touch - maybe 15 mins - and see if that helps. Babies don't tend to want to sleep when they're not tired enough and if put down when undertired, can become overtired as they don't yet recognise their own sleep window. That will come with time. DS knows what it feels like when he's tired enough to need a nap now and will tell us (so glad we put in the hard yards while he was little!).
-
Sorry, didn't get around to posting until now.
Have I asked -- do you have any reliable way to get him to take a decent nap -- car seat, stroller, etc? I'm thinking that if you can APOP a decent nap in the afternoon, it would get you to a reasonably bed time. I totally get what you mean about not wanting to put him to bed ridiculously early.
Well, it seems that my DH can get him down for his afternoon nap, no problem. Last Sunday - Thursday, I tried and failed at getting him to sleep. Then DH was home early Friday, and Sat and Sun he was home. He got him down for a nap without barely a peep. Then today comes and he screamed for an hour and now he is nursing and looking like he is falling asleep. DH and I are doing the exact same WD routine. I don't really understand why he won't let me put him down for his nap. As for APOP - he only sometimes naps in his stroller but hasn't napped longer than 20 minutes. And now the weather is hot and it can be unpleasant for both of us to be outside. (He was hot to the touch after our last walk and that was when he was completely in the shade!)
Yesterday he had pretty good naps after a bad EW because of a loud car outside. He fell asleep during his last feed of the day and was down for the night at 5:40. He was up at 10:30 - fed him and he went back down. He was up a bit like an hour later I believe, but I think I was too out of it and DH put him back to sleep. Then he was up at 1:15 - I didn't even check the clock and just fed him later realizing it was early for his feeding. He didn't go back to sleep and eventually started crying/screaming until 3:30 until we were at a loss and then I fed him again. He got up for the day at 6:30 but didn't seem well-rested at all.
(((Hugs))), I'm sorry this is still going on for you.
Thanks. I need lots of hugs and sleepy dust to give my LO.
Last couple days weren't typical because we were OOT. Here's I guess where we were last week:
WU 6-6:45
E 6:45, 8:30 (solids)
S 9:15-10:35
E 10:45, 12:30 (solids)
S try to PD for 1:30-1:40 but for the past 3 days he's been resisting so he falls asleep nursing
E/S 2:15-3?
E 4:30 (solids)
Bath 5:30, pajamas, stories, lullabies PD around 6-6:15
can fall asleep anywhere between 6:45-8
Today so far:
WU E 6:40
E 8 solids
S 9:10-10:25
E 10:30
E 12 solids
PD 1:25 nope.
E/S 2:30 he has fallen asleep on me nursing
What do you recommend to do for BT in a day like today (which was Sun-Thurs of last week too)? I'm going to aim for bath around 5:20/5:30, then nurse and bedtime routine after that.Hmm, Bec's thoughts reminded me... I also wondered about reading 2 books and singing 3 songs before bed. We didn't add books to BT wind down until both kids were around 1yr, it was just too exciting for them (and neither are particularly touchy). I only ever sang the same lullaby, maybe twice or three times if needed, but didn't add other songs til they asked for it. . These obviously aren't issues for all babies, just some other thoughts on the OS side of things.
Thanks, I wondered this too...but I've cut them out some nights and it didn't seem to make a difference. They are pretty short too. Takes me about 2 minutes to get through both of them. He sometimes can act really upset while nursing (only only during the feed before bed) as though he is so OT that he can't take it anymore and needs to go to sleep NOW - but when I do put him down he is suddenly WIDE AWAKE jumping and crawling all over his crib (and that's usually with a WD in between).
Something else you may want to consider is increasing your A times just a touch - maybe 15 mins - and see if that helps. Babies don't tend to want to sleep when they're not tired enough and if put down when undertired, can become overtired as they don't yet recognise their own sleep window. That will come with time. DS knows what it feels like when he's tired enough to need a nap now and will tell us (so glad we put in the hard yards while he was little!).
Ah, this scares me! Then I'll be revamping his EAS to 3 hours, right? Because then his E time will be in the middle of his nap? But also today I put him down after 3 hrs and no go, I tried doing 2-3 more WDs after but he cries when I walk around the bedroom because he knows he has to nap so I can barely do a WD again...and that's after 3 hr 15 min, 3 hr 30, etc...
That's encouraging though that he will eventually recognize his sleep window one day. I mean, it makes sense, but right now it's just so confusing!
All this effort trying to get your LO to sleep paid off in the long run? That's all that's getting me through this and being so dedicated is the thought that it will pay off in a few months (years?) time.
-
Then DH was home early Friday, and Sat and Sun he was home. He got him down for a nap without barely a peep. Then today comes and he screamed for an hour and now he is nursing and looking like he is falling asleep. DH and I are doing the exact same WD routine. I don't really understand why he won't let me put him down for his nap.
Did those naps happen at the same A times that you're putting him down for? How did they go? Are you starting to feel tense about putting him down? I tend to be a bit more structured with sleep than DH and I know that when things start going haywire and I get tense, it just gets worse. It's much easier the second time around than the first (and much easier said than done, I know), but it still happens some times. The other thing I wondered is if he's starting to associate nursing with going to sleep in the afternoon and fights you for that. :-\
WU E 6:40
E 8 solids
S 9:10-10:25
I don't think the A was long enough here. He's close to 8mo now? I think he needs at least 3hr, maybe 15min more as Bec mentioned.
PD 1:25 nope.
E/S 2:30 he has fallen asleep on me nursing
So, what happens when you PD? Is he relaxed during wind down and then gets upset? What do you do when he gets upset... shh/pat, PUPD, how do you attempt to settle him? He may need a bit more A time here too and that's why he's resisting, but it is interesting that he doesn't resist your DH.
What do you recommend to do for BT in a day like today (which was Sun-Thurs of last week too)? I'm going to aim for bath around 5:20/5:30, then nurse and bedtime routine after that.
How long did he fall asleep for? I think what you've got planned sounds about right. I'd aim for about 6/6:15pm asleep.
Thanks, I wondered this too...but I've cut them out some nights and it didn't seem to make a difference. They are pretty short too. Takes me about 2 minutes to get through both of them.
I'd just cut them for good, tbh. I tend to think you need to do something for at least 3 days to see if it's making a difference and if it only takes 2min to read both of them, it's not worth it. What's the point, yk, he's not really getting anything out of it except to maybe get OS. Read and cuddle during the day and start introducing books at BT later. Just a wind down, cuddles, and white noise are all that's needed at this age, IMHO.
He sometimes can act really upset while nursing (only only during the feed before bed) as though he is so OT that he can't take it anymore and needs to go to sleep NOW - but when I do put him down he is suddenly WIDE AWAKE jumping and crawling all over his crib (and that's usually with a WD in between).
Yes, that sounds OT and like he's hit his second wind.
Then I'll be revamping his EAS to 3 hours, right? Because then his E time will be in the middle of his nap?
Not quite sure what you mean by this. Is he taking some solids? You can move the BF Es around at this age to make them work with the routine. You don't need to stick with a 4hr routine anymore.
(((Hugs))), your hard work will pay off. Some LOs are just a bit more tricky. :P
-
Did those naps happen at the same A times that you're putting him down for? How did they go? Are you starting to feel tense about putting him down?
Yea, pretty much. He slept like an hour and a half each time! I don't think I'm feeling tense. I can put him down fine for the morning nap, it is the afternoon nap that he is refusing with me. In fact, today I was winding him down and walking around with him and he was looking like he was falling asleep and every. single. time that i put him down he started to cry. He was practically asleep in my arms. His eyes were closed. I did it like 10 times and he would start to cry and scream as I tried to put him down. I am about to nurse him and he will likely fall asleep eating again. Right now he is screaming on my lap. What am I to do when he just won't be put down and won't stop crying when I just have to do other things?? I don't want to just leave him! (It seems like this is the only time of day I get to post - when I'm anchored to the couch because he's fallen asleep nursing.)
I don't think the A was long enough here. He's close to 8mo now? I think he needs at least 3hr, maybe 15min more as Bec mentioned.
But isn't that a good nap length? He's been going to nap around 9:10 every day and napping about 1 hr 20-30 minutes. And I just don't understand when I'm supposed to feed him if his E time is 45 min into his nap. I wouldn't know how to gauge when to wake him to eat (if he sleeps that long).
So, what happens when you PD? Is he relaxed during wind down and then gets upset? What do you do when he gets upset... shh/pat, PUPD, how do you attempt to settle him? He may need a bit more A time here too and that's why he's resisting, but it is interesting that he doesn't resist your DH.
Sometimes he's upset during WD but I don't have any tricks to calm him down. If he's upset in the crib DH can rub his back and he will apparently fall asleep. Half the time he won't let me do that. He won't let me roll him on his side, he will just scream and scream until I pick him up. He is not good with PUPD - he hates it. I can't seem to find any way to settle him unless I carry him out of the room. I feel like he doesn't resist DH because DH can't feed him but that's not helpful because he isn't here during the week to put him to sleep!
Just a wind down, cuddles, and white noise are all that's needed at this age, IMHO.
I'll try that. He doesn't sit still for cuddles though. He is usually hyper and tries to get away and look around. Part of the OS. Seriously, I need to find a way to just relax him.
Not quite sure what you mean by this. Is he taking some solids? You can move the BF Es around at this age to make them work with the routine. You don't need to stick with a 4hr routine anymore.
I want to stay as structured as possible even with allowing some flexibility in his routine but I'm not sure how to do that if he gets off 4 hr EAS.
-
In fact, today I was winding him down and walking around with him and he was looking like he was falling asleep and every. single. time that i put him down he started to cry. He was practically asleep in my arms. His eyes were closed. I did it like 10 times and he would start to cry and scream as I tried to put him down. I am about to nurse him and he will likely fall asleep eating again. Right now he is screaming on my lap. What am I to do when he just won't be put down and won't stop crying when I just have to do other things??
Ok, so maybe not tense, but almost like you're trying too hard to get him down. :-\ It sounds to me like it's almost a prop issue. He's relying on you for help. The fact that the A times were basically the same and he slept well for DH makes it sound to me like he's trying to use you to fall asleep. How did you get him to independent sleep in the first place? I think you'll need to pick a method of settling him and carry it through for a few days to get him down, whether a modified shh/pat or PUPD. Yes, he will cry and resist you, but if he can do it for DH he can do it for you.
But isn't that a good nap length? He's been going to nap around 9:10 every day and napping about 1 hr 20-30 minutes. And I just don't understand when I'm supposed to feed him if his E time is 45 min into his nap. I wouldn't know how to gauge when to wake him to eat (if he sleeps that long).
Yes, the nap length is fine. The day I took that from it was only 1h15min, which is still fine, but I'm thinking if you pushed the A a bit and got a good 1h30min nap most days, the second one might fall into place a bit more. Is he taking some solids? I honestly don't think you need to worry about the E times. You don't need to wake him to eat at this age. He's an efficient eater and will get the calories he needs. I'd only be worried about it if he wasn't gaining weight or was always waking hungry from naps. Some LOs go 5hr between milk feeds at this age, because they have some solids in between.
If he's upset in the crib DH can rub his back and he will apparently fall asleep. Half the time he won't let me do that. He won't let me roll him on his side, he will just scream and scream until I pick him up. He is not good with PUPD - he hates it. I can't seem to find any way to settle him unless I carry him out of the room. I feel like he doesn't resist DH because DH can't feed him but that's not helpful because he isn't here during the week to put him to sleep!
This again sounds like he's waiting for you to pick him up and 'rescue' him, so to speak. If you're consistent in settling him in his crib, he will do it.
He doesn't sit still for cuddles though. He is usually hyper and tries to get away and look around. Part of the OS. Seriously, I need to find a way to just relax him.
Have you tried the tight hugs that Bec suggested?
I want to stay as structured as possible even with allowing some flexibility in his routine but I'm not sure how to do that if he gets off 4 hr EAS.
Have you taken a look at some of the sample routines for this age? There are lots of ways to work your EAS around feeds. Here's a link... chronological EASY samples, 7-9 months
-
How did you get him to independent sleep in the first place?
If anything, this has been the most confusing because I've been doing the same exact thing for months! I go into the bedroom, close the door, walk around with him a bit and put him down awake. He used to just fall asleep on his own in the crib. I can try PUPD again, but in the past if I've already picked him up more than 3 times, he will keep crying and will not calm down after that. That doesn't seem like the best way to relax him. I posted when he was younger about him hating the shh/pat and once I dropped it altogether he started settling more easily. I wouldn't want to re-introduce that. I've tried a bit of music, white noise, etc. They haven't been working! Argh...
This again sounds like he's waiting for you to pick him up and 'rescue' him, so to speak. If you're consistent in settling him in his crib, he will do it.
I have to figure out how, though. If I leave him in the crib and sit by his side he will scream until his next feeding anyway.
Have you tried the tight hugs that Bec suggested?
What are tight hugs?
I've seen the examples of babies between 7-9 months but I get so confused because a lot (if not most) of them have low A times (like 2 hr 30 min - 3 hrs).
I'll be gone tomorrow and the day after but hope to be back to post again on Friday.
-
Would this work for you when you're trying to fit in feedings and longer A times/naps? Tell us where it's not working otherwise and we can help you tweak.
Feeding twice during A time -- happens when you get past 3 hours and your naps are longer -- so it would look like this:
E (milk) - 7
E (solids) - 8
E (milk) - 10
S - 10:30-12
E (milk) - 2
S - 3:30 - 5
E (solids) - 5:30
E (milk) + BT - 7 (probably BT closer to 8 with that later nap)
You end up with lots of feeding at this age -- I think that's part of the reason why I waited with mine to do 3 meals until closer to 9ish months, it was just too much of a pain to get it all in and milk is much more important anyway. You also realize that you lose the EAS and move to more of an EAES or EASEAE. You can also change it up a little and do something like this:
WU/E (milk) - 7
E (solids) - 8
S - 10:30-12
E (milk) - 12
S - 3-4
E (milk) - 4
E (solids) - 5
E (milk)/BT - 7
I tended to end up with a bunch of feedings clustered together at the end of the day as it was just how things worked out best. It gets pretty variable at this age!
Tight hugs = just giving him a good tight squeeze -- sometimes the pressure helps LOs wind down.
-
I don't think you need to try PUPD if you don't think it suits him, but I do think you need to try to settle him for that nap consistently for a few days and see if it doesn't get better. At least that's what I would do. What do you do to settle him at NWs when you don't feed? Do you ever resettle naps? Some LOs like their forehead stroked, some like their bum jiggled, some like their thigh or front of diaper patted, some like their shoulder patted, some like their tummy rubbed. If your DH was putting him down at the same A times, he's likely tired then, so I feel like finding something that will help him settle without eventually feeding him should help.
I've seen the examples of babies between 7-9 months but I get so confused because a lot (if not most) of them have low A times (like 2 hr 30 min - 3 hrs).
I think there's a pretty good range from about 2.5-3.5hr, which your LO falls perfectly in. Looking at the patterns of the EASYs you've posted, I'd say his ideal A time is likely around 3-3.25hr. Take a look at what Erin has posted and let us know how we can help.
I'm sure this has been asked, but is he teething atm? Have you tried any meds before the afternoon nap to see if that helps?
-
Hey honey, your advice is great so far...I'm just popping on to say hang in there! My 7 mth old is a little like yours with sleep ATM. I think we just need to balance our day right YK?
I did want to ask if he is showing any signs of tummy cramping or discomfort from the solids. Poops ok, not constipated? X
-
Erin, I will try over the next few days to try to implement that new routine. Today it's kind of similar - he had an EW at 5:20 and wouldn't settle I ended feeding him a little at 6:05 but didn't settle then either but DH got him to fall asleep maybe around 6:30 and he slept until 8:05. I fed him solids at around 8:30 and nursed him around 10. He started drifting off while I was nursing him but I kept trying to wake him up. At 11:02 (just 3 minutes shy of 3 hours) he went down easily for his nap. It's been about an hour and a half and he's still napping! (Yay for being able to type with 2 hands because LO didn't fall asleep in my arms!) I'll have to see how the rest of the day goes (and I'm dreading the 2nd nap of the day...which will be a lot later today than usual because of the late WU) but I'm hoping that he will go to sleep at a reasonable time and maybe, just maybe sleep until at least 7am tomorrow? Of course, that's the hope every day!
Katie, it really depends. Sometimes when he wakes I can just shh or whisper "it's ok go back to sleep" and give him a gentle back rub and he will fall right back to sleep. Sometimes that doesn't work and we need to use the music but that doesn't always work either. It's really just up in the air. For the past couple months we haven't been able to resettle naps. It seems that once he wakes up, that's it. He is not going to go back to sleep. So I haven't been even trying recently and I'll just take him out. As far as teething goes, I don't see any signs of a tooth actually coming in. I went to the pediatrician when he just would wake up screaming at night just to make sure he didn't have an ear infection or anything but she said he is likely screaming from the teeth moving below the gums. I tried one night with motrin and that didn't stop his NWs so that was that. The past week or so he hasn't been screaming so much at night, but yes, he still has plenty of NWs.
Sara, yes, I know what you mean! I wish I could find a routine that worked perfectly! I don't think he's constipated...I mean, I can pretty much tell when he is having a BM and he doesn't look like he's in pain or anything. He isn't especially gassy either...
Thanks for all your support! :D
-
Update: He napped for 2 hr 25 minutes! That is crazy for him! Is that too long of a nap? How will it affect his 2nd nap? BT?
-
Yay for the good morning nap! :) Typically, at this age, it's best to wake at 2hr, so that you don't get a fight for the pm nap, but if he really needed it from the EW, then maybe it was just catch up. Hope the second nap went ok...
-
Yay for the good morning nap! :) Typically, at this age, it's best to wake at 2hr, so that you don't get a fight for the pm nap, but if he really needed it from the EW, then maybe it was just catch up. Hope the second nap went ok...
Ah, you were right. No afternoon nap :(. Just when I thought we could possibly get a BT without being so OT!! It's almost 7pm (he WU at around 1:30) and he is still awake (was just scream/crying but now it seems to be quiet...DH is in there putting him to bed)! When is this cycle going to break??
-
Hugs. Often with a really long am nap like that you have to give a decent next A and then BT is a little later if you also get an ok pm nap. Some people do a shorter nap in the car or stroller etc :-*
It's so hard because the day gets really wonky
-
Ah! I'm at a total loss!!
Yesterday went really really well, following a disastrous night with terrible NWs and yet we still had pretty bad NWs last night too.
Here's how yesterday went.
WU E 7:35am
E solids 8:30am
E 10am
S 10:30-12:30 I went to his crib-side and I think he sensed my presence and woke up (as per the recommendation to cap the nap at 2 hours)
E solids 12:45
E 2pm
S 3:40-5pm (yes!!)
E 6pm (no 3rd solids meal because I didn't want him to lose his appetite for nursing)
E 7:10pm
WD then PD at 7:35
Fell asleep ON HIS OWN 7:56 I couldn't believe it. I was sort of in shock!!
But then of course the NWs started...He woke up a bit at around 9:30, got him back to sleep in a minute. WU again at 10:30 but fed him. Then he was up at 10:55, but got him back to sleep in a minute. Slept until 2:30 but then decided to feed him (5 min), up again 4:30 and was rolling all over the crib and crying at the same time and kept hitting his head on the bars so I decided to feed him again (5 min) to calm him down. He didn't really settle until 5:30am. Then he slept until 7:40 this morning.
Last night he had quite a bit of NWs as you can see but he wasn't screaming. Friday night he was screaming and wouldn't settle for hours. I would think he was experiencing discomfort but I don't see any teeth coming in, his diaper wasn't dirty, and he wasn't really gassy or anything. This is where I throw my hands up in the air and go ???!! We followed his A times to the tee yesterday and made sure he didn't go to bed OT and he didn't. Then why so many NWs!! :'(
-
(((Hugs))), it's so exhausting, isn't it? :(
That was really a great day though, and a super second nap when you've been struggling to get one, so try to hang onto the little successes when possible. Sometimes, it takes more than one good day to see the improvement at night, so keep with that EAS routine, and let's see if he can settle into it a bit.
Of course, there are always other reasons for NWs too. It sounds like there could be some developmental stuff going on with all the rolling around the crib. Is he working on crawling, pulling up to stand, etc? How old is he now?
The other thing to note is that he is being fed a few times a night when he probably doesn't really need it, i.e. using it to calm down. Alhtough he is an independent sleeper during the day, if he's fed at a few NWs at night, there's a chance he's using that as a prop. My DS was this way and I eventually had to start resettling him at all wakings where I knew he wasn't hungry to start getting a decent night out of him. It was sort of a long process for us, because he was teething on and off throughout all of it, but once he started settling wihtout being fed and without me laying him down ::), he finally started sleeping better at night. Just something to think about...
-
(((Hugs))), it's so exhausting, isn't it?
That was really a great day though, and a super second nap when you've been struggling to get one, so try to hang onto the little successes when possible. Sometimes, it takes more than one good day to see the improvement at night, so keep with that EAS routine, and let's see if he can settle into it a bit.
Of course, there are always other reasons for NWs too. It sounds like there could be some developmental stuff going on with all the rolling around the crib. Is he working on crawling, pulling up to stand, etc? How old is he now?
The other thing to note is that he is being fed a few times a night when he probably doesn't really need it, i.e. using it to calm down. Alhtough he is an independent sleeper during the day, if he's fed at a few NWs at night, there's a chance he's using that as a prop. My DS was this way and I eventually had to start resettling him at all wakings where I knew he wasn't hungry to start getting a decent night out of him. It was sort of a long process for us, because he was teething on and off throughout all of it, but once he started settling wihtout being fed and without me laying him down , he finally started sleeping better at night. Just something to think about...
Yes, definitely exhausting!!
We were really excited about his good naps and easy BT, not to mention a happier DS yesterday but so confused about the NWs! I am trying to keep to the same schedule as yesterday but his nap ended after 1 hr 15 min and he's been cranky. He is refusing his 2nd nap now and I don't even get the insurance nap with a nursing session because this modified EAS schedule had his feeding 45 min before his nap started and now he isn't due to eat for another 1 hr 15 min! By BT he will be extremely OT and will have been awake since 11:40am!
He's been rolling like a champ for about 3 months now and has been crawling for about 3 weeks. Not puling to stand yet, though. He will be 8 months tomorrow (can't believe he has yet to STTN!)
I definitely try not to feed him every time he wakes up at night. I prefer once after his 10pm and before WU. I've been doing a slow weaning of decreasing the amount of minutes for a couple of months now. I'm at about 5 minutes but am afraid to do less because he would probably start crying if he was eating and I took him off?
Sometimes though if DH won't get up, and I can't get him to settle, I give in. I don't like it when I do it because I don't want him to use nursing as a middle of the night prop but exhaustion tells me to give up and just feed him. I know no 2 babies are the same, but when did your DS start sleeping better and STTN?
-
I know no 2 babies are the same, but when did your DS start sleeping better and STTN?
We had a break in teething from 10-12mo and I settled him for every NW except an early morning one without feeding. I also had to have him lie down on his own. He then started sleeping through except for that early morning feed, which didn't go til 16mo. :P. It's up to you, but if I were in your shoes (and I was), I'd try to start settling him without feeding for all NWs except the 10am and whatever other one you choose (probably around 5am). I'd do it before he starts getting a bunch more teeth and is prone to have a couple NWs anyway. But, that's me speaking from hindsight! ;)
Did your DH put him down for all naps again this weekend? Any reasons you can see that he might have fought the pm nap yesterday and not the day before?
-
I'd try to start settling him without feeding for all NWs except the 10am and whatever other one you choose (probably around 5am). I'd do it before he starts getting a bunch more teeth and is prone to have a couple NWs anyway.
That's going to be hard, but I'll try. Sometimes I'm convinced he's actually hungry. Also, in the times when I didn't feed, he would scream for hours and then eventually I would give in. So now when I see he doesn't settle almost right away, I feed him.
Did your DH put him down for all naps again this weekend? Any reasons you can see that he might have fought the pm nap yesterday and not the day before?
Unfortunately, no. He was OOT this weekend. I put him down for the nap on Saturday and DH settled him to sleep in the crib. Sunday, I don't know why he wouldn't go down unless he was already OT when nap time came. I was able to gently bounce him in my arms while on the couch and he took a short nap this way (never did that before) but that was after much resistance. He got up from nap at 11:40 and took a short 20-30 min nap at around 4 and didn't go to bed for the night until 8:15. It was a loooong day...
-
I'd try to start settling him without feeding for all NWs except the 10am and whatever other one you choose (probably around 5am). I'd do it before he starts getting a bunch more teeth and is prone to have a couple NWs anyway.
That's going to be hard, but I'll try. Sometimes I'm convinced he's actually hungry. Also, in the times when I didn't feed, he would scream for hours and then eventually I would give in. So now when I see he doesn't settle almost right away, I feed him.
If you aren't ready to do this, then you certainly don't have to, but if he doesn't have a reason not to wake, i.e. he almost always gets fed, I don't know that he will just stop, yk? If you think he might be hungry, you could at least set a time limit (feed no earlier than 4/5/6hr; I'd personally go with 6 at this age, but you need to choose what you're comfortable with) and settle the other wakings. He might scream a lot the first few times, but he will learn.
-
If you think he might be hungry, you could at least set a time limit (feed no earlier than 4/5/6hr; I'd personally go with 6 at this age, but you need to choose what you're comfortable with) and settle the other wakings. He might scream a lot the first few times, but he will learn.
^^^I agree with this too. From the consistency of his wakings despite all the other changes, I'm kind of thinking the wakings have something to do with the feeding as well.
Here's where you're at (from where I can see it, I could be totally wrong) -- I've seen a lot of moms in the position you're in on these boards -- there comes a point when you have to make the decision as to whether or not you're going to resettle or feed -- and since you're the one doing it, you have to make the choice one way or another -- if you keep feeding him at more frequent intervals, he's probably going to wake at more frequent intervals -- and when you get to the point where it's more bother to feed him than it is to spend a few nights doing a lot of resettling, then you tackle them -- but it's something you have to be committed with to start, you know? And don't feel bad for one second if you're not ready to tackle them -- lots of moms wait and just deal with the feeds until closer to a year. FWIW, my ds who was huge and always HUNGRY (we're talking quadrupled his birth weight by 9 months) was down to the dream feed and 1 night feed at your LO's age.
((hugs))
-
And don't feel bad for one second if you're not ready to tackle them -- lots of moms wait and just deal with the feeds until closer to a year.
Yes, this.^^^ I'm not meaning to pressure you into it and don't want you to feel bad, I've totally been in your shoes. Just saying if you want to try to reduce the NW/NF, I think you can if you stick with resettling.
-
If you aren't ready to do this, then you certainly don't have to, but if he doesn't have a reason not to wake, i.e. he almost always gets fed, I don't know that he will just stop, yk? If you think he might be hungry, you could at least set a time limit (feed no earlier than 4/5/6hr; I'd personally go with 6 at this age, but you need to choose what you're comfortable with) and settle the other wakings. He might scream a lot the first few times, but he will learn.
For the past couple of months I've only really been feeding him once (occasionally twice) after his 10pm-ish feeding and WU. I've been very slowly decreasing the minutes he eats. Now down to 4. I gave him a 4 minute feeding at 2:30 but he was up again at 4:50 screaming. Scared that maybe 4 minutes wasn't enough to last him until WU, I fed him another 4 minutes. He went down without a struggle but was up 15 minutes later and continued to scream for an hour and a half. It was 6:30 at that point so I fed him again...
and when you get to the point where it's more bother to feed him than it is to spend a few nights doing a lot of resettling, then you tackle them -- but it's something you have to be committed with to start, you know?
I want to be able to do this...maybe I'll talk to DH about possibly doing it this weekend because its a long weekend and he won't have to worry about work the next day. But then little things get in the way like - we are doing a portrait session Sunday and I wouldn't want him to be super cranky the whole time. What should I be aiming for? One feed? No feeds?
lots of moms wait and just deal with the feeds until closer to a year.
Sometimes I feel like I've given up because I still see myself feeding him through the night until he's closer to 1 year. But he wakes way more frequently than the amount of times that I feed him. What does that say? Will those ever stop? Soon? I know you can't possibly know the answer to those questions but I wish I could see a light somewhere...
FWIW, my ds who was huge and always HUNGRY (we're talking quadrupled his birth weight by 9 months) was down to the dream feed and 1 night feed at your LO's age.
That would be nice! So your DS only woke up once a night and then resettled? Sounds like a dream!! My DS is on the smaller side and isn't a huge eater, but he eats nicely. I don't think he's super hungry at night but I'm not convinced he's not totally hungry either. I'm not having a huge issue with feeding him the one time (yet), it's all the other times he gets up. And all the times he won't settle. My DH had had it this morning after he was screaming an hour and wanted me to just leave him be. I wouldn't let him CIO, and in his hysteria he was flinging himself all over the crib and hitting his head and scratching at his face. So I held him down practically. It was exhausting. Looks like this will happen every night if I decide not to feed.
-
I've been very slowly decreasing the minutes he eats. Now down to 4. I gave him a 4 minute feeding at 2:30 but he was up again at 4:50 screaming. Scared that maybe 4 minutes wasn't enough to last him until WU, I fed him another 4 minutes. He went down without a struggle but was up 15 minutes later and continued to scream for an hour and a half. It was 6:30 at that point so I fed him again...
I think if you're questioning whether he's hungry or not, then I'd be prepared to do the DF and one other full feed for now and settle all the rest of the NW. There's no point in reducing the minutes if it's going to make you question if he's hungry and then feed again. If it's really a prop issue, then it's not the number of minutes that counts but having him be able to settle without actually feeding. TBH, waking so soon again after being fed sounds more like discomfort to me than anything else. Have you checked into things like food intolerances (either in his solids or in your milk) that are causing him trouble? What types of solids is he having? There can often be other factors in LOs who have never slept well at night.
What should I be aiming for? One feed? No feeds?
I would do a DF before he wakes at night and then one other feed (maybe around 4-5am). So, if he normally wakes at 10:30pm, DF at 10pm. But, again if you're not ready and you're going to be thinking about the photo session on Sunday, then I'd say maybe this weekend isn't the best one to start.
But he wakes way more frequently than the amount of times that I feed him. What does that say? Will those ever stop? Soon?
It either says something else is going on, i.e. some sort of discomfort or routine issue or that there is a bit of a prop issue. It's hard to say if those will stop soon, but I think having a way of settling him other than feeding is a start.
And all the times he won't settle. My DH had had it this morning after he was screaming an hour and wanted me to just leave him be. I wouldn't let him CIO, and in his hysteria he was flinging himself all over the crib and hitting his head and scratching at his face. So I held him down practically. It was exhausting. Looks like this will happen every night if I decide not to feed.
(((Hugs))), again this sounds like it could be discomfort to me, esp the scratching at his face part. :-\ I don't know that I'd hold him down as that may just make him more upset.
-
Have you checked into things like food intolerances (either in his solids or in your milk) that are causing him trouble? What types of solids is he having? There can often be other factors in LOs who have never slept well at night.
He's always been fussy so I cut dairy out of my diet after doing some research. TBH, I am so nervous giving him new foods because it's really hard to pinpoint intolerances. He doesn't eat a wide variety of food at the moment. Do you think I should take him to the allergist? The pediatrician never recommended it, but I can ask at his next check-up so maybe sooner if it's really worth it.
So, if he normally wakes at 10:30pm, DF at 10pm.
He doesn't have a set time. Sometimes it's 9:30, sometimes 10, 10:30, 11:15...so on. Will waking for the DF disturb his sleep, do you think? (Seems like a ridiculous question, he already has disturbed sleep!)
I don't know that I'd hold him down as that may just make him more upset.
Ah, so what would you do if LO was going nuts and could potentially hurt himself? Pick him up? Sometimes that makes him more upset.
I wish I knew what sort of discomfort he was experiencing!
-
Do you think I should take him to the allergist? The pediatrician never recommended it, but I can ask at his next check-up so maybe sooner if it's really worth it.
I think it's at least worth it to talk with your pediatrician about it. You can also check here for some help... Does my LO have food intolerances?
He doesn't have a set time. Sometimes it's 9:30, sometimes 10, 10:30, 11:15...so on. Will waking for the DF disturb his sleep, do you think?
Oh, that's tough if you can't ever pinpoint it. I was hoping you could catch him before he woke, so if it was indeed a prop, it wouldn't be another NF, but not sure that will work if he wakes so randomly. The DF is meant to be just picking him up and feeding him while still mainly asleep, so he shouldn't really 'wake', but some babies do. I was mistaken in thinking this is what you were already doing... sorry!
Ah, so what would you do if LO was going nuts and could potentially hurt himself? Pick him up? Sometimes that makes him more upset.
Not sure, just know that if I would have held either of mine down, that would've made them even more upset. Does he have bumper pads? I typically just tried to soothe by placing a hand on them and using my sleep phrase, but did pick up if they were really upset. My kids were used to me resettling in the MOTN, though.
(((Hugs))), I'm so sorry this is so difficult for you. I know you're exhausted. :(
-
Hi Hun,
Forgive me if these questions have been asked! :-*
How are your LOs poops? - any mucus? Really smelly? Any constipation or diarrhoea? - is your LO uncomfortable until a poop is passed? - lots of gas and if so does it hurt before LO passes it?
How does your LO feed during the day? - any fussing during or just after the feed?
Has the nights got worse since solids ha been established? 2/3 weeks after? - or no change since starting?
(((Hugs)))
-
I was hoping you could catch him before he woke, so if it was indeed a prop, it wouldn't be another NF, but not sure that will work if he wakes so randomly. The DF is meant to be just picking him up and feeding him while still mainly asleep, so he shouldn't really 'wake', but some babies do. I was mistaken in thinking this is what you were already doing... sorry!
Totally fine!
It was 10:20 and I was heading to bed and he hadn't woken last night so I decided to feed him then. (It took him over 2 hours to fall asleep though...classic OT.) I don't think he woke up until 2:15 (which is good, I guess...considering he usually has a wake up in between that is *usually* easily settled...but he was super OT from going from 11am-7:45pm without a wink of sleep so he may just have been super tired.) Anyway, he sleeps on his belly and no matter how gently I try to lift him, he wakes. Even when he slept on his back while swaddled, he would wake as soon as I lifted him (light sleeper, this one).
How are your LOs poops? - any mucus? Really smelly? Any constipation or diarrhoea? - is your LO uncomfortable until a poop is passed? - lots of gas and if so does it hurt before LO passes it?
No to all of the above. As far as they look to me (and DH), they are totally normal! When he is in the middle of a BM I can tell - but he doesn't look in pain or uncomfortable at all.
How does your LO feed during the day? - any fussing during or just after the feed?
Feeds pretty well, I guess. Doesn't fuss so often (once in a while yes, usually because of OT). He is happiest right after a feed. That's the time he is most playful.
Has the nights got worse since solids ha been established? 2/3 weeks after? - or no change since starting?
Hm, I recall vaguely that I thought his sleep was getting better right after he turned 5 months. But then it all went wrong. I didn't introduce solids until 6 months. And even now he still only eats 6-7 different fruits/veggies regularly. I'm way too nervous to start on different foods like broccoli (because I heard it can cause gassiness) or dairy of any kind.
It may just have been a coincidence, but at around 6 months he had had his best night ever. And we weren't even home. He slept from 10:30-7am straight (would have been great if I hadn't been up half the night checking on him/waiting for him to wake), with a teeny wake in between where I just had to whisper "go back to sleep" and that was it. That was after he started eating solids too, about a couple of weeks in.
-
Hmm, so it doesn't really sound like an intolerance is the culprit. :-\ Although, I am no doctor, so it may still be worth looking into. I think I'd keep working on the EASY and settling all NWs except the one or two you're comfortable feeding at with some other method. I'm sorry I don't really have any better advice, but if we've checked all other angles, I think it's worth it to try to start being quite strict in getting him to settle himself (for that afternoon nap and the NWs) and see if that doesn't make a difference.
(((Hugs)))
-
I've basically not been feeding unless its a 10pm-ish feed or the one around 2:15-2:30. Do you think I should W2S/DF like 1:30?
He was up today wide awake at 5:40am. That probably had something to do with OT as well.
I was strict today with the morning nap. He was falling asleep in my arms but every time I tried to put him down he would start crying. I put him down though and sat with him for 20 min until he stopped and went to sleep.
This afternoon, however, that didn't work. He cried for 40 minutes and stopped for a but, with no intention of going to sleep. What do you do when it becomes so close to a feeding time that it almost isn't even worth it to keep sitting there? I'm sure it's as though I'm giving in, but when he stopped crying I picked him up and started to nurse him, where of course he has fallen asleep. (That's why I have the opportunity to post again, as I am stuck to my couch.)
EBT hasn't been working. We moved it to 6pm (I'd like it to be 7ish), but since he's so OT by BT, he is up for almost 2 hours after PD!
My DH said I should mention the part where he gets up in the MOTN, and we resettle him, and he looks asleep and we wait a bit before going back to bed, but the second we walk away he starts crying again. He may never STTN if he expects us to sit there and settle him all night long! I mean I would love to help...but we are so exhausted too! :/
-
If there is no issues with discomfort, or teething...my bet is OT and prop issues :-\
So what A times are you doing ATM? Can you repost with today's EAS?
Maybe we can get a plan between us for you :)
-
A plan sounds good!!
Today has been going smoothly!! Sooo thankful for that! We shall see how BT goes...I'll have to report back tomorrow night sometime what time he actually fell asleep.
WU/E 6:40
solids 8:40
E 9:15 (moved it up because of his nap)
S 9:40-11:18
solids 12:15
E 2:15
S 2:30-4
solids 4:15
E 5:15
E 6:50 last feeding before bed
7 BT
I'll let you know how it goes.
-
So that day is fab! Hopefully the night goes ok
-
Yes, great day!! :) FX you get some sleep tonight!
-
Sorry it's been some time since I've posted. It was a busy (and exhausting) weekend.
So here was Friday's EAS:
WU/E 6:40
solids 8:40
E 9:15 (moved it up because of his nap)
S 9:40-11:18
solids 12:15
E 2:15
S 2:30-4
solids 4:15
E 5:15
E 6:50 last feeding before bed
7 BT
But he didn't end up falling asleep until 7:40 and he still had NWs. And he's been having EWs! He's been waking up 5am now!!
Still at a loss. :(
-
(((Hugs))), EWs are the pits! :( I wonder if he wasn't quite tired enough to fall asleep at 7pm that night. What have the last couple days looked like? Are the NWs happening randomly? How are you settling him in the MOTN?
-
(((Hugs))), EWs are the pits! :( I wonder if he wasn't quite tired enough to fall asleep at 7pm that night. What have the last couple days looked like? Are the NWs happening randomly? How are you settling him in the MOTN?
At this point, it's hard to say. After that day (there were 2, actually) with good naps and A times he still has NWs. Even yesterday, which was okay, I got him down for 2 naps and he went to bed at 6:15 (that was after almost 4 hours A time). And getting him down that quickly is quite a triumph. He had his share of NWs again. He cried from 12:30-1:30 and we have no idea why. We are trying to settle him and he would settle when we have a hand on his back but the minute we go away he starts crying again. A friend of mine said that this has become a prop and could be the reason he is waking up (what do you think?), so I tried to intervene less and help him after a few minutes, while sitting at his side the whole time. He eventually fell asleep during the time I had my hand on his back and whispered over and over "go back to sleep". At some point during the night I think he was up again and crying. I'm pretty sure DH and I were completely out of it because I didn't get out of bed :-[ but he did manage to stop crying on his own. I imagine he couldn't have been crying very long because it would have woken me up enough to get out of bed and go to him.
The other night I even tried giving him gas meds just in case (because he seems a bit gassy Friday night and Saturday night) but it didn't seem to help the NWs. Should I give another round of ibuprofen a go?
-
We are trying to settle him and he would settle when we have a hand on his back but the minute we go away he starts crying again. A friend of mine said that this has become a prop and could be the reason he is waking up (what do you think?), so I tried to intervene less and help him after a few minutes, while sitting at his side the whole time. He eventually fell asleep during the time I had my hand on his back and whispered over and over "go back to sleep".
Yes, I'd say that sounds like it could be a prop. Do you often have a hand on him when he goes to sleep in the first place or just at the NWs? The way to get rid of it is to start taking it off when he calms and continue to help him settle with your voice. If he gets upset enough that you need to put your hand back, then do so, but remove it when he calms again and keep using your voice. It may take a few days, but he will get used to falling asleep without your hand. And then you can gradually move away from the crib if he's still waking and you need to get out of the room.
Should I give another round of ibuprofen a go?
It's worth a try if you think he's teething.
-
How old is he now Hun?
-
Do you often have a hand on him when he goes to sleep in the first place or just at the NWs?
Only when he goes to sleep at night and at NWs. We are trying to cut down on this though.
How old is he now Hun?
8.5 months. Actually just starting to pull himself up now.
-
Those A times may need a bump looking at your last EAS (fri)
Also, it's a crazy time, teeth and developmentally. We have pulling up and trying to walk and I swear our rotten NW and pants pm nap is all related to this. ::) :-*
I do agree with Katie though, it may be a prop. I can't advise on props ATM because we are arms deep in them ::)
-
I'm going to bump up his first A time to 3 hr 5 min and see how it goes. Right now before his 2nd nap (if he takes one), I aim for 3 hr 5 min already so maybe I'll start 3 hr 10 min soon.
Last night was *pretty* good. Not great, but good. He went to sleep at 6:40 (after not taking an afternoon nap, well, a short one while nursing). Then had a NW at 10pm and that's where I did his last feeding. I think he woke up somewhere around 12:40am? (Not really sure.) But I just whispered "go back to sleep" (no touching!) and he went back easily (yay!) I don't think he got up again until 5:45am and then he wouldn't go back to sleep. Fed him at 6:10.
For the past 5 nights or so I haven't fed him at all in the MOTN!! That's pretty good, I'm thinking. I'm not so convinced he is going to have another good night tonight. He doesn't really have 2 good nights in a row, but I'm definitely hoping for one. Hopefully the bumped up A time will help today...
-
That sounds like a decent night to me. Yay for settling with only your voice and dropping the feeds, that's great! :) Hopefully, with a few more days of that and a more conisistent EASY, he'll start having more and more better nights.
I would even start pushing up to 3h15m to ensure that good pm nap. At 9mo, I'd say average A is closer to 3.5hr, so he's still a bit below (which is fine, but I think 3h15 would get you better and more consistent naps).
-
I would even start pushing up to 3h15m to ensure that good pm nap. At 9mo, I'd say average A is closer to 3.5hr, so he's still a bit below (which is fine, but I think 3h15 would get you better and more consistent naps).
Eh, so this morning he took a 2 hour nap after 3 hr 10 min A time. Then he wouldn't take his afternoon nap after 3 hr 15 min and he started crying 15 minutes after I put him down and knew it was a lost cause so I took him out and I'm feeding him now. How do you figure that he had a pretty good night of sleep after not really having a PM nap...was that the cause of the 5:45am WU?
-
Eh, so this morning he took a 2 hour nap after 3 hr 10 min A time.
Great! :)
Then he wouldn't take his afternoon nap after 3 hr 15 min and he started crying 15 minutes after I put him down and knew it was a lost cause so I took him out and I'm feeding him now.
My guess is that after a 2hr morning nap, he likely needed more than 3h15min A. This sounds UT to me. Can you not go in there and try to settle him when he starts crying?
How do you figure that he had a pretty good night of sleep after not really having a PM nap...was that the cause of the 5:45am WU?
Not sure I understand this question... sorry! :-[
-
My guess is that after a 2hr morning nap, he likely needed more than 3h15min A. This sounds UT to me. Can you not go in there and try to settle him when he starts crying?
Ah, ok so I would probably feed him before the start of his second nap if his A time his over 3 hr 10 min? What should his A time have been?
Quote from: bestsmilee on Today at 19:35:57
How do you figure that he had a pretty good night of sleep after not really having a PM nap...was that the cause of the 5:45am WU?
Not sure I understand this question... sorry!
Sorry...I was just wondering how he had a good (well, decent) night's sleep without his afternoon nap. Or was the EW a possible result from that?
-
My guess is that after a 2hr morning nap, he likely needed more than 3h15min A. This sounds UT to me. Can you not go in there and try to settle him when he starts crying?
Ah, ok so I would probably feed him before the start of his second nap if his A time his over 3 hr 10 min? What should his A time have been?
Yes, feeding before the second nap is pretty common at this age. Then, you can give solids after and get a good milk feed in before bed. As for A time, probably around 3h20-3h30.
[I was just wondering how he had a good (well, decent) night's sleep without his afternoon nap. Or was the EW a possible result from that?
Well, it wasn't technically an EW as he still had 11hr night sleep, but my guess is that he was maybe just tired enough to sleep through or he's getting better at settling with your voice and not being fed. It's hard to know after just one night. :-\ I do think all of this (missed pm nap, good night, added A time in the morning, good am nap) is pointing to him needing more A time during the day, so I think you're on the right track with pushing the A times longer.
Keep us posted! :)
-
What's going on now???
1. We upped his A time to 3 hr 10-15 minutes. If he doesn't protest and goes down right away, he has been waking after 30-40 minutes! He hasn't done that since he was just a couple months old. What's going on here?? And I can't get him back to sleep.
2. It's been recommended that I feed DS at the 3 hr mark so he can get a good nap in. However, I've noticed that he isn't really hungry after 3 hours and won't take in a lot. Should I continue this feeding even though he isn't very hungry?
3. LO is still waking up a bit earlier than we would like. He did *pretty* well last night, and that was after a 30 min AM nap and then he fell asleep in the car as we were rushing home to his PM nap and he slept for 10 minutes, woke up and didn't end up taking an afternoon nap after that at all.
-
1. We upped his A time to 3 hr 10-15 minutes. If he doesn't protest and goes down right away, he has been waking after 30-40 minutes! He hasn't done that since he was just a couple months old. What's going on here?? And I can't get him back to sleep.
Sounds like either UT, teeth, or developmental. You mentioned he was starting to pull up to stand last week... is that having an impact on what happens when you put him in the crib? Do you think he's teething at all? (Sorry, I'm sure this has been asked repeatedly, I just can't always remember. :-[)
2. It's been recommended that I feed DS at the 3 hr mark so he can get a good nap in. However, I've noticed that he isn't really hungry after 3 hours and won't take in a lot. Should I continue this feeding even though he isn't very hungry?
What does your feeding routine/EAS look like? Is he taking solids well? This is kind of a hard age for fitting in feeds here and there, but if he's not hungry when you try to feed him, I don't think he'd wake from a nap due to hunger. :-\
(((Hugs))), he's sure not making things easy on you, but I promise one day this will all be a distant memory. :-*
-
Sounds like either UT, teeth, or developmental. You mentioned he was starting to pull up to stand last week... is that having an impact on what happens when you put him in the crib? Do you think he's teething at all? (Sorry, I'm sure this has been asked repeatedly, I just can't always remember. )
He's still not cutting any teeth. I keep on checking too. He doesn't try to stand up in the crib unless he is really really upset. I don't understand how he could be suddenly UT when his A time last week was 3 hrs and now it's bumped up and before he napped 1 hr 20 min to 2 hrs and now its 30-40 minutes?!
What does your feeding routine/EAS look like? Is he taking solids well? This is kind of a hard age for fitting in feeds here and there, but if he's not hungry when you try to feed him, I don't think he'd wake from a nap due to hunger
I feel like it's possible he's done better with a feeding after 4-5.5 hr as opposed to 3 hr intervals. But I get scared because he's really little for his age and I don't want to deprive him of feedings. He takes in solids well. Not sure which route to go.
-
I don't understand how he could be suddenly UT when his A time last week was 3 hrs and now it's bumped up and before he napped 1 hr 20 min to 2 hrs and now its 30-40 minutes?!
Well, it's probably not then, but typically when a LO doesn't resettle, you want to take UT into consideration. It might be a bit of OT from the upped A times, but you didn't go up by too much so he should settle in pretty quick, I would think.
I feel like it's possible he's done better with a feeding after 4-5.5 hr as opposed to 3 hr intervals. But I get scared because he's really little for his age and I don't want to deprive him of feedings. He takes in solids well. Not sure which route to go.
If he does better with milk feeds 4-5.5hr apart, then I'd go with that. Technically, if he's taking solids 1hr after a milk feed he's not having to wait a full 4-5hr in between feeds anyway, so he probably is fine. You might try a few different options and see what works best for you.
-
Any idea how to tackle 5am EW??
-
It depends on what the cause is. Is he in discomfort from teeth? Is it an OT/UT issue from his routine? Is he hungry? Is there a prop issue? Those are all reasons for an EW. Here's a really good link on EWs: Early Waking. Have a read through and let us know if anytng sticks out to you. If the EW is not driven by a need, i.e. hunger, routine, teeth, I'd try wake-to-sleep first to get rid of it. How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)
(((Hugs))), I've BTDT with both kids, and it's tough! :-*
-
If anything stuck out to me, it was possibly hunger since he wasn't eating since 10:30pm. So when he woke up today at 4:30 (he did this yesterday too but was able to get him to sleep until 5 something without eating) I fed him for 5 minutes and he managed to sleep 2 hours more. But he had fallen asleep after 8pm and woke up 6:30 with 4 NWs. Still no teeth...
-
I don't think it's unreasonable at his age to have another NF after the DF, if it's early in the morning like that, especially if he's not eating all that much for solids. How are your days going? If you'd like to post the last few EASYs, we'd be happy to take a look.
-
Here too :-* remember it's a regressive period too http://www.babysleepsite.com/baby-sleep-patterns/8-9-10-month-old-baby-sleep-regression/
Hugs, will also peek at EAS
-
Sorry I haven't posted in a while. Have been feeling down because of so many unsuccessful attempts.
The problem with me posting an EAS is that every day it is something different. Different WU, BT, A time, etc. Although I've been trying really hard to be consistent, it just isn't possible due to his erratic WUs. The 2nd nap has just not been happening the last 3 days, but he took quite a nice one on Saturday and then I woke him after about 1 hr 45 min. A times are still a gamble...never know which one is going to work.
I think I discovered that my problem with "EAS" is that it's almost impossible for me to have the same "routine" every day and that's why every day is a different WU, BT, fed at different intervals, different A times after trying to get it "right" for the past 9 months. I am at a complete loss, suffering from chronic exhaustion, and my LO still sleeps poorly. I don't know if I'm "the exception to the rule" but I can't seem to get it right.
For example, yesterday he woke up at 5:50am and I fed him immediately. Hoping to get him down for a nap around 9:15 I fed him at 8:50. He started falling asleep nursing and I tried to keep him up. When he signaled he was done eating I started his WD but his eyes were completely closed at that point and went straight to sleep after 3 hr 10 min A time which is too short for him and lead to an UT nap and woke up an hour later. He did NOT go down for an afternoon nap. And he didn't settle easily for BT either. No crying, just lots of hyperactivity. He fell asleep eventually after 8.5 hr A time...yea. He had 3-4 NWs, an EW at 5:15 and instead of trying to settle I fed for a few minutes and he went back to sleep for about an hour. So then today's WU was 6:35. Nap went from 9:50-11:20 (I woke him up in hopes of getting a nice PM nap and normal BT.) No PM nap again. Every day is something different. How can I get it right? I'd like some consistency in his days but am finding it impossible with EAS. I don't want to sound like I'm complaining I'm just genuinely trying to make this work and can't figure out how!
It's possible that he is having a sleep regression. But he never slept well so I don't see how it's "regressing", more like just staying the same.
Ah, I just needed to vent...sorry.
-
Hugs Hun. What about starting a fresh thread for new eyes given its been two months since this one was started?
Some LOs are harder to crack than others :-*
-
Haha thanks...I'll try to start a new thread when I get a chance. Thanks for your dedication in the meantime!!
-
More (((hugs))), I think Sara's got a good idea. Sometimes, it's hard to see the wood from the trees (for everyone) when a thread has gone on so long. I think a post on EASY or GS would likely be your best bet.
If I were to add in my two cents, it sounds to me like he could use some 'setting.' If nothing is ever the same day after day, his body and sleep rhythms are probably a bit off. Setting some naps/A times and BT would probably do you both a world of good. :-* :-*
-
Hugs. Let us know where you post and we will come support you once you get some fresh eyes Hun
-
Ok - sorry for the brief absence! I am back now and posted a fresh topic on our current situation.
9 mo continuing sleep issues...
And Katie, looks like we had the same idea. I have been trying the set nap times and those seem to add more predictability to our day and its been working better. I think we will stick to this if it continues to be kind to us!
-
Sounds good! I will lock this thread now that you have a new one. Best of luck to you, hon! :-*