Advice and support please

[Kimberly®]

OK So my best friends DS is now in my daycare and due to her new job he will be staying here overnight for the next 3 weeks (maybe longer). He's a sweet kid, BUT he isn't sleeping through the night.

I need some advice and maybe a few words of encouragement..

Lastnight we did a practice run. He was up 22 times!!!!!!

Evertime he woke mom gave him a bottle. He had 3 9oz bottles through the night. I'm at a loss. I don't want to hurt my friend, but this is crazy. I'm ok with those under a year, but I must admit, other then getting them back on track I am at a loss at how to help older LO's. He's 14 Months old and very Spirited.

Whats my first step in sleep training this LO??? I have to wean the night bottle at the same time. If possible I'd like to have him sleep trained in the next 3 weeks. I know his mom is just exhosted and has pretty much given up. The fact that my DD sleeps through and her's is up so much I know hurts her. She feels like she's a bad mom, which she totally isn't. She's a single mom and I am so proud of everything she has done for her DS.

Can you please help me help her??? 

[Katet]

First thing would be to remove the bottle from bedtime if he has one then, so that it is not part of his association with going to sleep.
Also set up a routine that can be portable for bedtime, eg stories, kissing a toy goodnight & a lullaby... write it out so Mum has it after the visit & she can follow it... use it everynight
Attack the first bottle of the night & first wake up & just go with the rest as she has been doing... when he first wakes up use pu/pd or wi/wo or what every soothing works to get him to sleep. then for subsequent wakeups offer the milk (watered down if you can) as his body will be used to all that fluid in the night & also the calories, so it will be too hard to drop it all at once.
Also put a sippy cup in his bed & when you put him to bed show him it & at the first wake up offer it to him... with time he should learn his nightly drink is within reach & can have it at night without bothering anyone KWIM
Also for all the night wakings use the same words & routine... the key for toddlers is very routine & verbal usage is key... so something like "time for sleep now" repeated over & over is a good message to give when you deal with the wakeup.
Given he is spirited, consistency & knowledge are the key but he will fight it hard. He may also be young, but it won't hurt to explain through the day what will happen at night. I read somewhere that even roll playing a teddy bear in the bed, can help them understand... can give you some ideas on that, but have to go get dinner for the boys.

[mari]

3 weeks is a long time kimberley so I reckon you have a chance, but is his mum totally on board?  Do you think that she will be able to be consistent with it?  Because she needs to be, and I know that the reasons that I failed for so long is because I tried something but never really stuck to it, I gave up after one or two nights.
Look at his routine and ensure that he is getting enough sleep and activity during the day.  How does he fall asleep at night and for naps?  Is that with a bottle too?

This will work for your friend (and you) if she is consistent.  I agree with Kate that a bedtime routine will help, I'm not sure about the bottle at all during the night, I used to give Alex one, but ended up going cold turkey as I am sure that she was waking for it, but if I were you I would sit down and discuss everything with his mum and decide how and when you are going to do it and stick to it. 
Keep letting her know that she is a good mummy, I never forget the feeling of faliure when I heard that other babies were sleeping through and I was still carrying suitcases under my eyes, even though I knew that I was doing my best, I felt like I was failing, I wasn't of course, but it was easy to think it.
When sleep training Alex I set myself a limit of 3 weeks and I had her sleeping within 5 days with Walk in Walk out.

[Kimberly®]

I'm hoping I can get him to sleep through, both for him and for her. He's also overtired and very cranky all day. Its very tireing.

I did talk to mom, she does want it stopped, however her way is cold turkey CIO. Something I am just not willing to do. 1 because I don't believe in it, and 2 I really don't want my DD woken up and then having 2 to deal with. She's willing to try things my way IF I can prove that it works.

I'll persist with WI/WO and PU/PD. Maybe having someone other then mom do it will help too He wont be expecting the same from me. Then I'll teach her exactly what to do to keep it up at home.

[Katet]

The reason why I don't think you can do cold turkey is the 3x 9oz bottles is way too much to drop all at once, his digestion just wouldn't cope... if it was only 1 bottle then I think cold turkey would be the best, but when I got into multiple night feeds after ds#1 was sick in hospital at 9mo, I was suggested to start with dropping the first feed & keep the rest & it worked a dream, he cut back on the later ones with now hassle, I suggested it to a friend & it pretty much worked the same... the first bottle will probably be the hardest, but once he gets the idea then it would only be his "learnt hunger" that is the issue.
I think if you aim to loose a bottle every 4-5 days that leaves at least one week to iron out any other issues... any faster you will find it hard to deal with the metabolism changes with the high level night feeding.

[binxyboo]

Wow, I think that's a lot to be drinking at night, or even in the day at that age! Does he eat well during the day?!?

I don't have any real suggestions for you, but I guess my concern would be that although it may be easier for you to do the sleep training, I am hoping that his Mom is fully on board and not just expecting you to come up with some miracle cure. If you do get him to sleep through, it doesn't automatically mean that he will sleep through in his own home, kwim? I feel it may be a lot of hard work and effort for you and the child that might not lead anywhere in the end.

What was he doing up 22 times?!?

I wish you all the best Kimberly

[Katet]

I just hunted out a paranting magazine article that a bit of it I thought might interest you Kimberley.

"...toddlers have the ability to form strong sleep associations (BW = prop), the problem you described (14mo not being able to sleep anywhere but own cot) is a common one as your little one has learnt to associate sleep with the cot environment rather than poratable associations. Associations that make it difficult for parents are ones such as bottles, rocking or patting to sleep or even telling a child "here is your nice cosy bed, ready for you to sleep"... Changing habits can be difficult but I (author) have found that simple verbal cues form the strongest long term results.... now you ask if verbal cues are good, why can "here is your nice cosy bed, ready for you to sleep" be an association? Quite simply because it draws attention to the environment which can't always be replicated.
When I teach toddlers sleep, I use stories and kissing a soft toy (which I tuck into bed too) & saying goodnight to it and the child  and the simple message "sleep time now".  If the child stands up a lot, a message "time to lie down" is also important & helping them lie down if needed.
Many people suggest no verbal interaction with children after lights out, but I have found when responding to night waking, repeating the same simple message from bed time is important as they are learning those rules & that they will be repeated, but that should be the only converstaion that is repeated. (she then goes on to describe a method rather like pd & wi/wo when the child is calm... ie responding to the needs, but not interacting when calm)"

Intererestingly I found that after Liam got his molars, I had set up an association with me cuddling him outside the cot & singing a lullaby between stories & bed & he started to "need" that for night wakings, once I changed that to comforting in the cot & kissing 2 soft toys, we had a fast improvement.

I read another article by the same person, but don't have the issue & she talks about role playing with a soft toy & putting the toy to bed before the child & telling the child they have to try not to wake the toy & if they wake in the night maybe the toy needed a cuddle & woke them so give the toy a cuddle like Mummy would. I thought that was quite clever, but more for older toddlers I think.

[Kimberly®]

LOL Thanks for the vote of confidence Stacy. I just hope your right.

Watering down the milk isn't an option. Thats what she tried originally and it actually gave her DS major gas pains. He has a little trouble digesting water if he has to much. Just like mom.

So far today he's really impressed me. He went for his nap without a bottle (something mom says he's never done) and he slept for 2 hours. I just put him down for bed at 6:45 without a bottle, sametime as Kayla, and they are both out already. I brought the kids to the park today they were worn out compleatly.

So today has so far been better then I expected. We'll see how the night goes. I have a plan, we'll see where it goes from here.

Mom is on bored fully with me in that we both agree the nighttime feeds need to go. She'll give my way a go if she knows its working.

AS for eating during the day, no he doesn't eat very well. I took his bottles away today and switched them for sippies at meal times only and he ate pretty good for dinner. Hopefully this will continue. Thats what we did with DD when her liquid intake got out of control.

[binxyboo]

Glad it's going so well so far! Good for you

[Katet]

That is great Kimberley, if you have got him down without a bottle for nap & bed, you are on track, once that association with falling asleep is gone 2-3 days, it will only be learnt hunger you are dealing with.
We know you can do it.

[Erin M]

Wow, just saw this post.  Good luck Kimberly!  What a fabulous thing to do for a friend and for her DS as well. 

[Erin M]

Has he got a lovey or something other than a bottle to soothe him when he wakes?  Obviously the bottle is filling that need now, but maybe if you gave him something soft to cuddle with when you gave him the bottles he'd get used to having that instead of the bottle eventually (kind of what Kate read about portability of routine).

[Kimberly®]

LOL well he's woken 2 times since 7 (its 10 now) but after less then 5 minutes of PD and still no bottle he's sleeping again. I have a feeling this is going to be a looooong night   

Erin actually yes he does have a lovie, a little blanket animal thingy (not sure the proper name for it) I've given him that each time he woke and when I put him down for nap and bed. He'll chew on it for a moment, but it does seem to help him settle a bit. It looks like the sucking itself is whats soothing him, not the milk itself. Mom's even suggested I try a paci, though I am very reluctent since he doesn't reley on it now, the only good thing about it would be its better for his teeth. We'll see though, things keep on track he wont need it.

[Kimberly®]

LOL very strong coffee

[Katet]

I think it is to be expected he will wake frequently given he has had the bottle to suck on.
If it is less than 5mins of Pd, you are doing great. wish I was closer to give you a break in the day.
I think introducing a Paci now would be silly, if he chews on the blanket/toy thing then he as already found comfort in it & truely it sounds like he actually has some skills already.
Can I just say what a wonderful friend you are to his mother to do this for him & her