13 week old - move to 4hr EASY??

[rachaelcole]

Hi guys,

DD is 13 weeks today, & having struggled with 30 minute naps for the past 7 weeks we have even fiddling around with 'A' times. She is on 75th percentile (UK), weighs 13.5lb & takes 6 x 6oz formula feeds per day.

Varying the 'A' time hasn't made any difference to the nap length, but she seems to be reasonably content on a 2-2.5hr 'A' time. I know this is long for a baby of her age but I wonder because she is big & eats well whether that's why?

Do you think it's too soon to move to a 4hr EASY? Thinking this May help with our routine given she can stay awake for such a long time?

Thanks

[creations]

It possible (although a little messy) to have different A and E times if necessary. If you feel your baby does better on the long A times like the 4hr EASY but slightly less times between feeds then you can work out a routine that works for you/LO.

Is your LO an independent sleeper? Do you think sleep training to help her learn to nap longer would be helpful?

[rachaelcole]

Thank you for your reply 😊

I have tried for 7 weeks to extend her naps. The only way I have had any success is to hold her so I can gently restrain her arms, pat & cover her eyes...just don't have enough hands to do this with her still in the cot! I put her down in her cot as normal, then creep in at about 25minutes & pick her up. She doesn't wake up at any point.

She is an independent sleeper. She can self soothe most of the time if she wakes at night (which is rare) - if she can't it tends to be discomfort (wind etc).

I have tried shorter A times, long wind downs, low stimulation etc. She doesn't jolt when she wakes, just rouses & starts to move arms, legs, head side to side.

The only other times she will sometimes go longer is in the car seat-presumably because it's snug?

I have pretty much given up the hope that she will nap for longer stretches - I feel exhausted from thinking if nothing but her daytime sleep.

She has been on a 3hr EASY since we bought her home so I just don't know what's gone wrong 😔 I try & time her first A time in the morning but often when I go in to wake her she is already awake & just playing in her cot so then I have no idea when she woke so what time she should go back to sleep!

Just have no idea what else to do!?

X

[creations]

So, if you don't go in at the 25 min mark does she fully wake and not re-settle? Does she move her head side to side until she begins to cry or if you left her would she go back to sleep do you think? (asking because side to side head movement was a sign my DS needed to sleep and he would self settle)
Does she have a lovey?

Yes I imagine it is totally exhausting to be working on naps for so long and getting no break for yourself   Some times it is just better for the family (you) to accept the short naps and get on with your day, going out for a walk and some fresh air, meet family/friends etc is so much better for our mental state than sitting in a darkened room shush patting the day away.

Do you want to post your EASY for me to have a look at? (don't feel obliged if you prefer to accept the short naps etc for now, it's totally understandable if that's what you choose)

[rachaelcole]

If I leave her, she begins to move at the 30 minute mark. She rubs (but more pokes!) at her eyes & tries to suck her fingers but because she is still learning coordination she pokes & prods at herself so much that she wakes herself up. Once her eyes are open she starts looking around & that's it then, no going back! She will mostly fuss for anywhere from 5-15mins before starting to cry. She has never put herself back to sleep during a nap - mostly I feel due to the wanting to suck her fingers/poking herself in the eye situation!

We have swaddled, but because she likes trying to suck her fingers she will get really angry if she can't move her arms.

Is a lovey a bed time you, like a bear? She has a little bunny that I put in her hand to try & reduce the eye poking!

EASY as follows:

E - 7am 6oz formula
A - 1hr 20min
S - 8.20am (30 mins)
A - 8.50 am
E - 10am 6oz formula
A - continued from 8.50am (just enough to feed & nappy change)
S - 10.30am (30 mins)
A - 11am
S - 12.15pm (30 mins)
E - 1pm 6oz formula
A - 1hr 15min
S - 2.15pm (30 min)
A - 2.45pm
E - 4pm 6 oz formula
A - continued from 2.45pm (just enough for feed & napping change)
S - 4.30pm (30 mins)
A - until bedtime routine starts at 6pm (bath etc)
E - 6.45pm
S - 7pm
DF - 10.30pm
Very rare NW

I feel she needs the sleep as she gets cranky & doesn't do well entertaining herself as she can when she is well rested. So not only can't I get anything done during the short naps, I then can't do anything because she needs entertaining the whole time she is awake to try & keep her from being upset/cranky.

I try & keep feeds regular as the night sleep is my only rest so if I end up skipping feeds to fit in more cat naps (shortening some of the A times) I'm worried we will have short naps & NW!!

Any ideas??

Thank you 😊

[creations]

Those A times are quite normal for her age so it could just be a matter of teaching her to sleep longer, have you tried using W2S to help teach her?
Is this your usual EASY then?  I thought from your first post she was doing more like 2 to 2.5hr A time?

[rachaelcole]

I have tried the sshh/pat W2 as this was recommended.  The above is what we tend to do, but as you can see some of the A times reach the 2hr mark - my point was that it doesn't seem to make a difference if she has a 1hr 15min A time or a 2hr, she still will only nap for 30 mins.

How would you recommend teaching her to settle herself? I had presumed that because she mostly sleeps all night that she had been self-settling bit maybe she just doesn't ever actually wake up in the night & she can't self-settle at all!?

[creations]

Night sleep if different to day sleep, it's developmentally normal for LOs to learn to sleep, and transition, at night before they do in the day.
I would persevere with W2S, going in 10 mins before the usual WU time and shush/pat right through to deep sleep, 20 mins or even more. Do you have the time/energy to do this? Maybe for one nap per day (I suggest first nap, don't chop and change naps though).  If you don't find success with doing that consistently then I would suggest doing several days where you stay in her room, in the dark for the rest of the nap time before bringing her out to E then try to do close to a full A following that before taking her for another nap. This means the A in reality ends up very long (all the time she should have been sleeping but wasn't plus the E and following A time) but if you persist with the routine her tiredness should help with getting things on track as she will be very tired and more able to fall to sleep at nap times and stay asleep with W2S at transition times. This way you teach her to have longer naps.

I wouldn't go up to 2hr or 2.5hr A times if the naps remain 30 mins. it would be different if you were saying that after a super long A time she would sleep a good 2hr nap but she isn't.

I would encourage use of the lovey (yes a bear or any item that is safe for her. After she falls to sleep you can remove it form the cot for safety reasons.  My DS has a muslin square as a lovey, handy as they are so easily replaced if lost/dirty etc, and I used to remove his after he was asleep until he was older. SIDS guides say not to put anything in the cot until 6 months, so you need to judge for yourself what you are happy with and for how long etc).  Hold the lovey between you when you cuddle and really at any time of the day so she learns to associate comfort from it. You can't force a lovey on her but you can encourage it and see if she takes to it. When attached it is a great source of comfort for a long time, through illness, teething and sleep etc.
hth

[rachaelcole]

Thank you for this-really useful! 😀 I will continue to persevere on this basis with the W2s as she responds quite well to it. I can make the time, I guess I just needed some reassurance that the time I have been putting in wasn't for no reason. Is there an age where daytime sleep seems to work itself out?

Again, thanks so much for the advice 😊

[creations]

People tend to see an improvement in day sleep around 6 months but I think it can really depend on many variable and if LO has ever been an independent sleeper for naps before. There is often a difficult phase from 4 to 6 months, which you haven't reached yet.  Mine for instance was self settling for naps under 10wks old (maybe around 8 wks) but we still got short naps as a developmental phase and likely too low an A time.  For us the naps went off track at 3.5 months to 5.5 months.

W2S can work to help sleep train, do 3 days of W2S then day 4 stop and observe. If she wakes resettle however you can and continue W2S days 5,6,7, then observe again.  Some people find success with just one cycle whilst others find LO doesn't really learn to self settle but the method is still a great tool to help them sleep and hold off OT.  You might see success after say 3 or 4 cycles, you just have to see how it goes for you really.

Let us know how you get on and if you need further help

[rachaelcole]

So, we have had some success - but not how I had planed (typical 😀).

Yesterday morning, DD had an A time of 1hr 20mins. In that time I put bin liners over her window to stop light seeping in around the blackout curtains so it is now as dark for her naps as it is at night. Her nap lasted 45mins (an improvement) but I was able to extend by a further 30mins by using her dummy & HTTJ.

Her late morning nap was horrendous as we were out & about - I think she did 2x20 mins.

Her afternoon nap is 'where the magic happened'. She was so exhausted from the bad late morning nap that I put her in her cot with the whitenoise noise on to help calm & settle her. 1.5hrs later I had to wake her up to go out!!

Today we have also had success! Her first morning nap was in her cot with the whitenoise. She woke at 45mins but 'talked' herself back to sleep for a further 30mins (again I had to wake her to go out). It took her 25mins to settle herself to sleep between but an improvement! Again late morning nap only 30 mins as we were out & about. She is currently having her afternoon nap (in cot with whitenoise) which started an hour ago-she had 10mins awake at the 45 min mark but has settled to sleep again.

So we are making improvements without me having to do W2s but by using whitenoise.

Should I carry on like this (given there is improvement) & once naps are better slowly wean the whitenoise by decreasing volume a tiny bit every few days?

The darkness has definitely helped - if she isn't in the dark or her room she gets distracted at the 45min mark.

Should I be worrying that I'm using a prop (whitenoise) or should I just carry on until longer naps are reestablished and then deal with the prop?

😀

[creations]

Sounds great!
Whist noise isn't considered a prop as such because you don't have to keep going back. Yes it may be hard to provide this when out and about but really most people don't expect naps to be great out and about anyway.  So there is no need to wean it at all unless it is bothering you.
Keep going, you are making great progress