EWs at 13.5 Mos... Please Help Us Fix This!!

[ccg01]

Our son is 13 ½ months old. He has been early waking for about the last month (around 5 or 5:30), but it’s getting worse. He used to often go back to sleep after a feeding then, for another 45 minutes or an hour, but now he cries and cries if we don’t get him up. That seems to wake his older brother, so the days are getting off to a bad start. 

Have looked through the posts but think some eyes on this would really be helpful in adjusting whatever we can to fix this for a more normal wakeup. He used to get up between 6 and 7, which was great!

Here’s what yesterday into this morning’s 4:43 wakeup looked like (btw, I have tried waiting to go in and the crying escalates, waking the house up). He does fall asleep independently for night and naps. He is teething but we’re giving meds to help.
Wake 5:04
Eat 5:05 for about 15 minutes (breastfed just first thing in morning and before bed now).
A: play (throughout all these feed times)
E 6:50 – solids
E 8:00 Milk
S 8:37-10 (woke up happy)

E 11:00 solids
A stroller ride, playing
E 1:10 Milk (lots of it, which usually happens when teething)
S: 1:36-2:45
A play

E: 5:30 – lots of solids
A: bath @6:25
E: ~9 minutes before bed
S: 7:10 (took him about 10 min to fall asleep)

A next morning 4:43 a.m.
just fell asleep at 8:25

[~inbalance~]

Hi there

If he is teething that can very well be playing a part of it, even with meds.  We tend to get more EWs when teeth are involved.

I also think that the morning nap being so early is just perpetuating the EW cycle and you need to push that am nap back a bit.  I know it means a really long A time in the morning after an EW, but otherwise it is more like his EW is just a really long NWing to him since he gets to go back to bed so early.

It might be time to start thinking about the 2-1 nap transition as well.  Here is a link with some info:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=95670.0

I'm going to have this post moved over to the toddler sleep forum since your LO is over a year. 

[*Ali*]

I've moved the post over here to toddler sleep as requested.
What was his sleeping routine before the early waking started? Was he still on 2 long naps like he is now? What about his morning WU and BT?
Are you medicating before BT? If so I imagine they have worn off by the EW or are you med'ing again overnight?

[ccg01]

Thank you! Do you mean how was his sleep before the early wakeups started? Pretty good for about a month after weaning him off night feedings (that was a whole other thread. :-). He'd go to sleep around 7 or by 7:30 at the latest, was usually up around 6:30, 7 a.m. on a late morning. Not a lot of changes in naps - about 3.5 to 3:45 A time with two naps. If anything, he's no longer taking the nearly two hr one he'd often have. Now there's usually one nap of around an hour ten minutes and another about an hour and a half.

We only medicate before bedtime, so am sure that it is worn off by morning. Don't know how to address that, since he is seemingly wide awake at morning. Thanks!

[*Ali*]

Well the teething shouldn't last forever so you may have to just hold out for them to pop through the gums and give him some relief. i have heard some people go in and re-medicate in the night so the meds are still working in the morning but I have never tried this.
So as Martina mentioned above this may have all started because he was probably getting too much day sleep for his age. I think most toddlers around 13-14mo are having 1 long (1.5-2hrs) and one short nap (30-45mins or less) if they haven't already moved to one nap. Have a look at the link Martina posted for you about the 2:1 transition and also these links and see if some gradual A time extension and nap cutting and capping can help him be more tired and sleep longer overnight.
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=41952.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=212216.0

HTH

Ali

[~inbalance~]

I agree that it is probably time to start the 2-1 nap transition.  Also, you can try a dreamfeed of meds if you are so inclined.  I've never tried, but some moms swear by this.  You would just sneak the meds into his mouth while he is sleeping.

[ccg01]

Well, it took him til about 7 last night to fall asleep and then we got a 3:32 screaming wakeup. I went in after a few minutes, held him and he kept crying. Gave him pain meds, changed his diaper (just in case) and wound up nursing him to calm him down. Around 4 I tried putting him in his crib, steady and escalating crying. Held him, then put him in crib and settled by keeping my hand on his back. He went to sleep around 4:28. Woke at 6:10.

Put him down for nap 1 at 10:12 (so pushed A time to 4 hrs... had been between 3.5 and 3.45) and he slept for an hour fifteen minutes. Has been quite clingy today. Hmmm....

[~inbalance~]

Sounds like teeth are likely causing some discomfort. 

[ccg01]

There is definitely discomfort or something (can OT cause random night crying, though?)? He was crying at 11:15, 1, 4 overnight. Then up at 4:46. :-( I fed him and tried putting him in his crib. Gave up after 15 minutes as he was just sitting there crying (with me next to the crib). So today is going to be all wonkly. Argh!

Yesterday looked like this:
A 6:10 (second waking)
S 10:12- 1 hr 15 minutes

Next S 3:12 - 50 minutes and very unhappy to be awake

S 7:00 pm

DH was going to put him for nap a bit after 3.5 hrs this morning as he was really worried about OT. I know today will be a mess. What time should we try BT? Any other thoughts?

We can try moving to one nap but it seems so early. ODS was around 18-20 mos when he went to one nap.

[~inbalance~]

Yes, they cry out randomly when OT as they are sleeping so restlessly.

I agree that you don't want to jump straight to one nap.  It can be a rather long transition, especially when dealing with teeth and OT as well.  What you want to do is shorten one of those naps to 45mins.  We always did a short am nap followed by a short A time and then a longer pm nap of hopefully 1.5-2hrs. 

So you could try something like:
10 nap for 45mins
1:30 nap for 1.5-2hrs
7pm bedtime

If you have a really bad day with short naps, I would do bedtime at 6:30 to try and get caught up on some sleep.

[ccg01]

Thanks, Martina! (BTW, I think you were helping me through some night feeding issues not all that long ago.

So would you do the four hour A time even after a very early waking (last night he got about 9 hrs 45 minutes sleep if my calculations are right)? Pretty sure we're starting to get some OT going on, so I think I'm going to try an early bedtime tonight. I like your suggestion on the daytime schedule.

Need to pull out the EASY logs from ODS, too. We remember having to start waking him from naps at some point to straighten out early wakings. DH says he was just as bad about waking early, but I must have blurred that from my memory. Neither one of ours seems to be a night owl, but this is crazy.

[~inbalance~]

I would have a cutoff for the nap where it is no earlier than 10 no matter what time he wakes up, just because you don't want him encourage him to wake earlier by getting to have an early nap, kwim?  Then again, I tend to just push through long A times and OT myself. 

I was probably trying to help you out because our LO's are the same age!!    It always helps to hear from people who are going through the same stages. 

[ccg01]

Thanks! He wound up going for his first nap closer to 3 hrs 45 minutes and slept about an hr 25 (so that didn't move us closer to the shorter nap, DH just didn't want to keep him up that long). Second nap, he had trouble going to sleep, was up for 4 hrs 10 minutes A time and slept just over an hour.

I got him to sleep by 6:40 and did not hear a peep from him (whew) until he woke. At 3:55. UGH. Gave him meds, nursed him, tried to get him to sleep with, put my hand on his back to keep him there but as soon as I left he popped up and started cried loudly and didn't stop. So DH came up, got him and asked me to fix a bottle of milk. LO took 4 ounces (so maybe hungry, but don't really want a 5 am feeding habit, although I guess we have one already). Then he rubbed his eyes and when I put him in his crib he was quiet.

I heard one or two settling cries out of him and then he was out from about 5:10 to 7. Wowza. What a tangled schedule we have here.

Think DH is going to stick to at least 3 hrs 45 minutes for a week for the first A time (I cannot convince him yet to stretch it past 10 if LO is up at 4 something). I am going to try for another early BT tonight to see if we still have some OT going on. Any suggestions?

[~inbalance~]

Ugh, still sounds like those darn teeth I think! 

I think you are doing everything you can really with the A times and bedtime.  You might need to hold steady and ride out the teething before things get predictable again. 

[ccg01]

He had his finger in his mouth most of the morning (at least when I was home), so I think you are right! Am thinking that we need to watch he doesn't get OT because that plus the teeth may make it really hard for him to sleep through changes in sleep cycles.

Thanks! We are going to try to be steady and see what happens, but it is probably time to get to at least a 3 hr 45 min A time (he's done it before)?

Lots going on developmentally, too, of course. Last night he actually managed to feed himself applesauce with a spoon (and with tipping the container so he could stick his mouth in it). He was a mess but very very proud. lol

[~inbalance~]

Keep an eye on those A times, they are so tricky with teething.  On one hand he might be ready for more, but then teeth leads to sleepiness and OT so you don't want to stretch too fast.

He does have a lot going on!  All that fun stuff affects sleep, but it does all settle...eventually.    We are expecting teeth soon too and I am just waiting for all he!! to break loose! 

[ccg01]

It is so hard to figure the A times! Thinking that the teeth are knock wood less painful right now, as he slept at night without meds and didn't do too much crying out at night. Now I'm trying to figure out the second A time, as we've had short naps in tandem with a first A time of more than 4 hrs (he's been terrible to get down for first nap, so it is taking longer than planned, thus 4+ A).

Suggestions welcomed (especially on A times and bedtime)!
Yesterday looked like this:
Awake 4:53 AM
S 9:19-10:08 49 minutes

S 2:03-3:14 (woke up happy, probably from a BM).

Bedtime - Asleep at 7:04. Went to sleep easily on own, a real blessing after the struggles at bedtime the last several nights.

cried out briefly at 2 and 4 (was sure he was up at four but got lucky and he self settled in about 2 min)
 Today
Awake for day at 5:05

S 9:12 to 9:50 :-(

[ccg01]

Just re-reading some older posts and the stickies and think we may be goofing something up. We've also been pushing or at least holding the second A time (which was between 3 hrs 30 min and 3 hrs 45 min) to at least 3 hrs 45 min or even 4 hrs. It sounds like maybe we should be shortening that second A time to 3 or 3 1/2 hrs? Is that right?

We got a 4:45 wakeup this morning. Then he wet through while nursing so no back to sleep. UGH. Doing 4 hrs A for first nap.
Thanks!!

[~inbalance~]

The problem with letting him go back down for a nap so early after an EW, is it just perpetuates the cycle.  To him it may be like have a long NWing and going back to bed, kwim?

3/3.5hrs A time is really short UNLESS you are planning on doing a short am/long pm type of approach. 

I don't see how you can do such short A times on such early wakeups, unfortunately.  It's just going to keep moving the day earlier and earlier.  It's kinda harsh, but I think you do need to push that A time out so you can push the day back somehow.

When pushing A times I always found it helped to get out of the house and go for a walk at the time LO would normally be tired.  It is a quiet activity and is usually distracting enough so LO doesn't realize they are so tired, kwim?

It's tricky, because I do think you are in an OT loop which is hard to get out of with all the EWs.  If we can break that cycle then maybe we can get you back to a reasonable wakeup time.

[ccg01]

Thanks for the quick reply! I think my post may have been confusing. We're moving the first morning A time to 4 hrs (it had been 3.5 to 3.75 hrs as of last week). He's only been napping a short time on that nap (with the longer A time) - between 38 and 48 minutes, so sort of where we want it for the 2:1 shift, I think.

Was thinking once that stabilizes we can try pushing another 15 and so on... unless you think we need to push more now, am just so nervous about OT.

My other question was how long should the second A before, after a short morning nap? Thanks so much!!

[~inbalance~]

Sorry, my mistake.  I see that you wrote second A time and I guess it just didn't register. 

I would do 3hrs after a short nap to start, so I think you have the right idea. 

[ccg01]

Thanks, Martina! He had a one-hour nap this morning (DH didn't remember to have the sitter wake him at 45 minutes). Guess we will try 3 hrs A before the next naps and I am going to try an early BT as well. I just added yesterday's naps to last night's sleep and he only got about 11.5 hrs total, which seems really low. He was crying hard when he woke at 4:45 am so I am thinking OT is at play. Maybe. Ugh it is so hard to know!

[~inbalance~]

Does sound like OT, but maybe teeth as well.  11.5hrs is definitely not a lot of sleep.  Hopefully we can sort this out soon, I think you are on the right track. 

[ccg01]

Maybe a combination of both with some "it is so fun to get up early with mommy and go play in the basement" tossed in for good measure. ;-o

Thanks for the guidance! Last night was not helped by the carbon monoxide detector going off (battery died, not monoxide problem, thanksfully) at just before 1 am. The boys slept through it, despite it being in ODS' room! Yikes. So I got back to sleep just a few hrs before up for the day. Hoping to straighten this out soon, very soon!

[ccg01]

We have progress, maybe? Would love thoughts about what to do with today's schedule!

Yesterday he was up at 4:45 am
Nap 9-10ish (so 4 hrs 15 A time, 1 hr nap)

Nap Two 1:15-2:30 (so 3 hrs 15 min A time, 1 hr 15 min nap)

Asleep for night at 6:45 (seemed overtired, but still took time to get him to sleep)

Awake today at 4:22 *UGH*. Waited about 10 minutes but cries increased. Fed him at 4:35, tried to get him to sleep in crib but he stood, clung to the rails (and to me when I stood there) and cried and cried. Took him out (lights still off), changed his diaper, nursed him until he was really calm/sleepy. He fussed at me but not that loudly, so I put him in the crib, put my hands on his back (he was on his tummy) and shhhed til he slept, which was around 5:30. He then slept til 7! So at least he wound up with about an 11 hr night.

Thinking of nap at 4 hrs A time again. Should we wake at 45 minutes? Or an hour?

Then how long for next A time? Around 3 hrs or 3 15 again? Or a more usual 3:30?

Thinking may still try for early bedtime as he would still be overtired from all this rubbish, wouldn't he?

THANK YOU THANK YOU!!

[~inbalance~]

Good news!  I would keep the am nap at 45mins and do 3hrs afterwards, and then keep an early bedtime to stay on top of OT.  Great that he went back to sleep though, that is progress!  Hopefully he keeps up with that and then just starts staying asleep!

[ccg01]

Thanks!! I am elated that he went back to sleep... which is probably a bit crazy given that he was still up for more than an hr! We will try the shorter second A and early bedtime... fingers crossed!

[micoverde]

Hi, it looks like you have a good teamwork approach going on, so I don't want to throw a wrench in it.

Just wanted to let you know I'm going through the EXACT same thing with my 14-month old. Her wakeups have been getting incrementally earlier, from 6:15/6:30-ish for the past couple months (which was somewhat tolerable) till the past 2 weeks which have been 5:00/5:15-ish.

She is very tired after about 3 hours of A time, so I've been putting her down for 1st nap around 8:15/8:30 am.

Typical schedule:
W: 5:00/5:15 am (I sit quietly with her in her room, lights off, and she is very calm but will not go back to sleep ... maybe I need to try do P.D. in her crib longer ... I give up after about 5 minutes because she is SOOO spry and awake)
A: 3 - 3.5 hours
S: 1st nap 8:30 - 9:15 or 9:30 (usually 40 minutes total)
A: 4 - 4.5 hours
S: 2nd nap anywhere from  1:00/2:00 - 2:30/3:30 (usually 75-90 mins total)
BT: 7:30

I have tried doing a 4:00 am Wake-to-Sleep which worked for us before when she was much younger. After 2 nights it doesn't seem to help, but I'll give it a few more tries.

From your thread, I think I'll try to stretch out her 1st A time to 4 hours, and 2nd A time to 3, and maybe an earlier BT (7:00?). It's difficult because I work and the babysitter doesn't always follow my instructions. But we'll give it a go.

fyi, she only has 5 teeth so I haven't quite figured out when she's teething and when she might just be OT. She has always been an angel/textbook baby, so we haven't gone through any hellish teething episodes. Also, I'm quite sure she's not hungry because I've kept her on a breakfast schedule around 6:30/6:45 am and she is quite happy until then.

If you have any more suggestions, let me know. Again, sorry if I'm interrupting a good flow you've got going!

[ccg01]

Welcome! :-) My LO also is happy to wait for his main breakfast (he does nurse for a few minutes when he wakes up, horridly early) until 7, so it doesn't seem to be hungry here, either. Funny, he also has just 5 teeth, but his fingers were in his mouth very soon after waking today... can see the outlines of teeth now on one side, though.

He woke at 3:22 crying and soon started crying more loudly. He really wasn't settling with holding so I gave in and nursed him. Back to sleep by 3:42. Sigh. AP'ing I fear. Then slept til 5:35, at which time he was up!!! But soon rubbing his eyes.

We do think the longer A time is working, but DH is struggling with the idea of waking him at 45 minutes. So yesterday was reversed, 70 minutes first nap and 45 second (woken up by poop). It is also a challenge at our place getting him to bed early, because I don't get home til 5:30 and he takes FOREVER to eat dinner (it can take 45 minutes or more). But even 10-15 minutes earlier seems to be helping some.

Looks like your LO is already doing a short first nap, so that might go nicely with the longer A time. Good luck!

[~inbalance~]

ccg01, I think you're doing a really job troubleshooting as you go.  Don't beat yourself up about the MOTN nursing, I still do it on occasion too. 

Welcome micoverde!  I'm glad you've found a bit of help here.  Teeth usually come in pairs, so if you have an odd number of them now then you can bet there is at least one on the way!  I found too that teeth 7 and 8 were not far behind 5 and 6, so I think in both your cases teeth is probably playing a factor.

If you have further questions, feel free to browse the boards or start your own thread and we can help you out as well! 

Looks like we all have LOs around the same age. 

[micoverde]

Thanks for the words of encouragement!

Last night's BT was 7:00, and went off easily. I guess she really has been tired.

I did a 4:00 am WTS, and then she slept till 5:50! First time in weeks she's gone beyond 5:15. In total she got ~90 minutes more sleep at night than she has had in weeks.

I hope that means we're making some progress. Today I will try:

A1: 4 hours
S1: 45 mins
A2: 3-3.5 hours
S1: 90 mins
BT: 7:00

Keeping fingers crossed that we can make some headway ...

[~inbalance~]

Good luck! 

[ccg01]

Great news, micoverde! Here LO is going down easily (I am told, am at work then) for his 1st nap after 4 hrs A time and even for his second at 3 hrs 15 A. Got him to sleep just before 7 pm. He definitely is bothered by teeth or something because he cried for 30-60 seconds or so at 1 and 3 somethings.

He woke at 4:30 am (ugh). He was crying and sitting up, seemed like he really just wanted to get more sleep. I gave him Tyenol and changed him, then fed him and got him back to sleep (had to put my hands on his back in the crib for about 4-5 minutes) around 5:05. He cried out about 10 minutes later but slept til just before 7. So he is slowly catching up on sleep, we hope!!

[~inbalance~]

It sounds like you are making progress.  I agree teeth are likely bothering him, hopefully they come through quickly!

[ccg01]

Still struggling here. :-( Yesterday we woke him from first nap at 45 minutes, then despite him being v. tired tried to put him for nap 2 at 3 hrs. He chatted for 30 min, then wet through somehow. So it was nearly 4 hrs A time when he went to sleep...woke up crying in less than an hour. Then chatted again at early bedtime, so he didn't sleep til nearly 7.

Woke crying hard at 1 am. Nursed him back to sleep... only took a few minutes. he kept saying "milk" (milk). Sigh.

Woke at 5:05 am, cried out for a moment then started chatting. Could not get him back to sleep.

S 9:04-9:49 (woke him)
What should we do for second A time? He was so OT yesterday, I think. Wondering if he is showing sleep cues again if we should go even earlier than 3 hrs A... although it is so early a day start we are looking at any early BT again. Thanks!!