EWs at 13.5 Mos... Please Help Us Fix This!!

[~inbalance~]

Keep an eye on those A times, they are so tricky with teething.  On one hand he might be ready for more, but then teeth leads to sleepiness and OT so you don't want to stretch too fast.

He does have a lot going on!  All that fun stuff affects sleep, but it does all settle...eventually.    We are expecting teeth soon too and I am just waiting for all he!! to break loose! 

[ccg01]

It is so hard to figure the A times! Thinking that the teeth are knock wood less painful right now, as he slept at night without meds and didn't do too much crying out at night. Now I'm trying to figure out the second A time, as we've had short naps in tandem with a first A time of more than 4 hrs (he's been terrible to get down for first nap, so it is taking longer than planned, thus 4+ A).

Suggestions welcomed (especially on A times and bedtime)!
Yesterday looked like this:
Awake 4:53 AM
S 9:19-10:08 49 minutes

S 2:03-3:14 (woke up happy, probably from a BM).

Bedtime - Asleep at 7:04. Went to sleep easily on own, a real blessing after the struggles at bedtime the last several nights.

cried out briefly at 2 and 4 (was sure he was up at four but got lucky and he self settled in about 2 min)
 Today
Awake for day at 5:05

S 9:12 to 9:50 :-(

[ccg01]

Just re-reading some older posts and the stickies and think we may be goofing something up. We've also been pushing or at least holding the second A time (which was between 3 hrs 30 min and 3 hrs 45 min) to at least 3 hrs 45 min or even 4 hrs. It sounds like maybe we should be shortening that second A time to 3 or 3 1/2 hrs? Is that right?

We got a 4:45 wakeup this morning. Then he wet through while nursing so no back to sleep. UGH. Doing 4 hrs A for first nap.
Thanks!!

[~inbalance~]

The problem with letting him go back down for a nap so early after an EW, is it just perpetuates the cycle.  To him it may be like have a long NWing and going back to bed, kwim?

3/3.5hrs A time is really short UNLESS you are planning on doing a short am/long pm type of approach. 

I don't see how you can do such short A times on such early wakeups, unfortunately.  It's just going to keep moving the day earlier and earlier.  It's kinda harsh, but I think you do need to push that A time out so you can push the day back somehow.

When pushing A times I always found it helped to get out of the house and go for a walk at the time LO would normally be tired.  It is a quiet activity and is usually distracting enough so LO doesn't realize they are so tired, kwim?

It's tricky, because I do think you are in an OT loop which is hard to get out of with all the EWs.  If we can break that cycle then maybe we can get you back to a reasonable wakeup time.

[ccg01]

Thanks for the quick reply! I think my post may have been confusing. We're moving the first morning A time to 4 hrs (it had been 3.5 to 3.75 hrs as of last week). He's only been napping a short time on that nap (with the longer A time) - between 38 and 48 minutes, so sort of where we want it for the 2:1 shift, I think.

Was thinking once that stabilizes we can try pushing another 15 and so on... unless you think we need to push more now, am just so nervous about OT.

My other question was how long should the second A before, after a short morning nap? Thanks so much!!

[~inbalance~]

Sorry, my mistake.  I see that you wrote second A time and I guess it just didn't register. 

I would do 3hrs after a short nap to start, so I think you have the right idea. 

[ccg01]

Thanks, Martina! He had a one-hour nap this morning (DH didn't remember to have the sitter wake him at 45 minutes). Guess we will try 3 hrs A before the next naps and I am going to try an early BT as well. I just added yesterday's naps to last night's sleep and he only got about 11.5 hrs total, which seems really low. He was crying hard when he woke at 4:45 am so I am thinking OT is at play. Maybe. Ugh it is so hard to know!

[~inbalance~]

Does sound like OT, but maybe teeth as well.  11.5hrs is definitely not a lot of sleep.  Hopefully we can sort this out soon, I think you are on the right track. 

[ccg01]

Maybe a combination of both with some "it is so fun to get up early with mommy and go play in the basement" tossed in for good measure. ;-o

Thanks for the guidance! Last night was not helped by the carbon monoxide detector going off (battery died, not monoxide problem, thanksfully) at just before 1 am. The boys slept through it, despite it being in ODS' room! Yikes. So I got back to sleep just a few hrs before up for the day. Hoping to straighten this out soon, very soon!

[ccg01]

We have progress, maybe? Would love thoughts about what to do with today's schedule!

Yesterday he was up at 4:45 am
Nap 9-10ish (so 4 hrs 15 A time, 1 hr nap)

Nap Two 1:15-2:30 (so 3 hrs 15 min A time, 1 hr 15 min nap)

Asleep for night at 6:45 (seemed overtired, but still took time to get him to sleep)

Awake today at 4:22 *UGH*. Waited about 10 minutes but cries increased. Fed him at 4:35, tried to get him to sleep in crib but he stood, clung to the rails (and to me when I stood there) and cried and cried. Took him out (lights still off), changed his diaper, nursed him until he was really calm/sleepy. He fussed at me but not that loudly, so I put him in the crib, put my hands on his back (he was on his tummy) and shhhed til he slept, which was around 5:30. He then slept til 7! So at least he wound up with about an 11 hr night.

Thinking of nap at 4 hrs A time again. Should we wake at 45 minutes? Or an hour?

Then how long for next A time? Around 3 hrs or 3 15 again? Or a more usual 3:30?

Thinking may still try for early bedtime as he would still be overtired from all this rubbish, wouldn't he?

THANK YOU THANK YOU!!

[~inbalance~]

Good news!  I would keep the am nap at 45mins and do 3hrs afterwards, and then keep an early bedtime to stay on top of OT.  Great that he went back to sleep though, that is progress!  Hopefully he keeps up with that and then just starts staying asleep!

[ccg01]

Thanks!! I am elated that he went back to sleep... which is probably a bit crazy given that he was still up for more than an hr! We will try the shorter second A and early bedtime... fingers crossed!

[micoverde]

Hi, it looks like you have a good teamwork approach going on, so I don't want to throw a wrench in it.

Just wanted to let you know I'm going through the EXACT same thing with my 14-month old. Her wakeups have been getting incrementally earlier, from 6:15/6:30-ish for the past couple months (which was somewhat tolerable) till the past 2 weeks which have been 5:00/5:15-ish.

She is very tired after about 3 hours of A time, so I've been putting her down for 1st nap around 8:15/8:30 am.

Typical schedule:
W: 5:00/5:15 am (I sit quietly with her in her room, lights off, and she is very calm but will not go back to sleep ... maybe I need to try do P.D. in her crib longer ... I give up after about 5 minutes because she is SOOO spry and awake)
A: 3 - 3.5 hours
S: 1st nap 8:30 - 9:15 or 9:30 (usually 40 minutes total)
A: 4 - 4.5 hours
S: 2nd nap anywhere from  1:00/2:00 - 2:30/3:30 (usually 75-90 mins total)
BT: 7:30

I have tried doing a 4:00 am Wake-to-Sleep which worked for us before when she was much younger. After 2 nights it doesn't seem to help, but I'll give it a few more tries.

From your thread, I think I'll try to stretch out her 1st A time to 4 hours, and 2nd A time to 3, and maybe an earlier BT (7:00?). It's difficult because I work and the babysitter doesn't always follow my instructions. But we'll give it a go.

fyi, she only has 5 teeth so I haven't quite figured out when she's teething and when she might just be OT. She has always been an angel/textbook baby, so we haven't gone through any hellish teething episodes. Also, I'm quite sure she's not hungry because I've kept her on a breakfast schedule around 6:30/6:45 am and she is quite happy until then.

If you have any more suggestions, let me know. Again, sorry if I'm interrupting a good flow you've got going!

[ccg01]

Welcome! :-) My LO also is happy to wait for his main breakfast (he does nurse for a few minutes when he wakes up, horridly early) until 7, so it doesn't seem to be hungry here, either. Funny, he also has just 5 teeth, but his fingers were in his mouth very soon after waking today... can see the outlines of teeth now on one side, though.

He woke at 3:22 crying and soon started crying more loudly. He really wasn't settling with holding so I gave in and nursed him. Back to sleep by 3:42. Sigh. AP'ing I fear. Then slept til 5:35, at which time he was up!!! But soon rubbing his eyes.

We do think the longer A time is working, but DH is struggling with the idea of waking him at 45 minutes. So yesterday was reversed, 70 minutes first nap and 45 second (woken up by poop). It is also a challenge at our place getting him to bed early, because I don't get home til 5:30 and he takes FOREVER to eat dinner (it can take 45 minutes or more). But even 10-15 minutes earlier seems to be helping some.

Looks like your LO is already doing a short first nap, so that might go nicely with the longer A time. Good luck!

[~inbalance~]

ccg01, I think you're doing a really job troubleshooting as you go.  Don't beat yourself up about the MOTN nursing, I still do it on occasion too. 

Welcome micoverde!  I'm glad you've found a bit of help here.  Teeth usually come in pairs, so if you have an odd number of them now then you can bet there is at least one on the way!  I found too that teeth 7 and 8 were not far behind 5 and 6, so I think in both your cases teeth is probably playing a factor.

If you have further questions, feel free to browse the boards or start your own thread and we can help you out as well! 

Looks like we all have LOs around the same age.