8mon. Bed time issues and I'm ready to be done with NW!!!

[MommaStorms]

Bubby is 8mo today. Independent sleeper. Low sleep needs... At 4.5 months had him doing

WU 7
S 9:30-10:30
S 2-4
BT 7:45

Had to adjust at 6.5 months to...

WU 7
S 10-10:30
S 2-4
S 7:45

I needed to adjust bc that PM nap started going short and BT became a Gong Show. His naps are still doing ok but bed time is back to a disaster. He keeps pulling himself up and standing in his crib, it's lasted an hour each night this week until I'm so tired of walking in and out to lay him back down that I just give up and bounce or nurse him to sleep. Then he's having a NW around 2 and 4 or 5. The night before last it was 2 AND 3 AND 5. Last night I did the DF on the late side, at 11:30 and he STILL woke up at 2 AND 5.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Do you think he's a bit UT at bedtime if he's LSN?  Or could the shenanigans be developmental do you think? 

I have a LSN LO too and I found that he needed one long A in the day to get him tired enough for night time.  Does he generally prefer a longer last A?  If so, here are some options for routine tweaks:

Do you think he'd go down for his morning nap any earlier, even if you had to AP it?  Then you could shift your afternoon nap a bit earlier and have a slightly longer A til bed?  Or the other option is to cap the morning nap at 20 minutes (10 - 10.20), move the afternoon nap 10 minutes earlier and BT at 8.  Final option is to cap the afternoon nap to 1.5 hrs and keep BT the same.

What do you think?

[MommaStorms]

My thoughts were either developmental or needing longer A, just wasn't sure which.       He is OBSESSED with standing right now.

I have been doing APOP AM naps. This morning we did 20 minutes... We're coming on 2pm and he's crawling around just happy as a clam. I think what I'd ultimately like to do is get the PM nap the get closer to Noon. So I think I'll try option 2.

Thank you for the help!

[LovelyLilyandJack]

No problem. Hope it works ok!

[MommaStorms]

This got better and then they got a lot worse.
A couple nights ago he slept from 9pm-6:45am w no NW 'cept for the DF I gave at 11.

Now he's waking 3+ times a night and I'm struggling to resettle him. We were so exhausted this morning from the terrible night we had we fell asleep while he was nursing at 7am and we both slept until 9:45am.  I figured I'd just see how much A time he could take at after 4hr and 45min I laid him down. And he did! LAY DOWN. Every nap and bed time has been a fight to get him to just lay! But his nap was only 1 hr 20 minutes. Not sure if he's just reached his sleep limit bc we slept SOOO much this morning. And I'm pretty nervous about how tonight is going to go. He's typically getting 13.5 hours of sleep total, so I think that's right around how much he needs maybe just a little more, another 30 minutes to an hour.

And now I'm starting to worry that I've just made a bunch of bad sleep habits and that's the issue    oh this uncertainty just stresses me out. 

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Oh it is horrible isn't it? It was the uncertainty which used to kill me too.

What does his day look like now? And what are you doing to settle him at BT and during NWs?

[MommaStorms]

Overall he has always been more of a SS baby unless he's having a glitch w his sleep schedule. At this point I can't even shh/pat bc we won't lay down. I've been doing walk in/walk out. That goes on for an hour at BT and about then I'm done. I need to put DD to bed, I have chores, etc. After that I just hold him and bounce him for probably 5 minutes. I don't lay him down in a deep sleep but he's out enough to the point he will lay down. I don't last long w walk in walk out for NW. I'll do it a couple times but if he doesn't settle then I move to bouncing. And if that doesn't work after about 5 minutes I'll nurse him.

Yesterday we
WU 9:45am
S 2:35 -he laid right down, groaned for 2 minutes and was out! He WU at 4
S 8:40pm  he did not lay down and I gave up pretty quick and bounced him.  I did a shorter A bc his nap was shorter than I excepted. He woke up 3x last night. I had a harder time settling him after each time. I woke him at 8:30 this morning. Even with the shorter nap his overall sleep was more than all the other days w 2 naps bc he slept so late in the AM.

Every one of our days is different. Even if I've made the AM nap the same sometimes he falls asleep after 2 hrs A time and that'll get a long nap and other times it's a long A time and a shorter nap. I don't know what is going on. 

I'm starting to convince myself he needs a much longer A time so he will lay down other wise he's climbing up and playing around. I moved DD to 1 nap a day at 11 months and that was the first time she EVER napped  longer than 45 minutes. I bet she could have switched earlier than that.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

It does sound like he could handle a bit more A time.  Hopefully he'll go back to self settling if he's tired enough.  How about trying something like :

WU: 7
A: 3hr 15
S: 10.15 - 10.35 capped
A: 3 hr 30ish
S: 2pm uncapped
BT: 8pm

Do you think that's different enough from what he was doing?  If not you could increase the first A to 3hr 30, cap the nap at 20 minutes, keep the second A at around 3hr 30 unless he shortens that second nap (then we'll reassess), then do at least 4hrs to bed.

[MommaStorms]

4 hour PM A is what we have been doing for a couple months now. I was thinking if I capped the PM nap that might work but then he will be getting even less sleep per day.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

How about introducing a few one nap days? Do 4hrs 45 again, let him sleep uncapped and resettle anything less than 1hr 30 / 2 sleep cycles and do EBT of 6.30 or 7 depending on day or nap length.  I'd aim for a maximum of 5hrs A after a good nap, or a day length of 12hrs max. Then the next day go back to your 2 nap day for a few days to let him recover any OT, then do another 1 nap day when you think he's ready, or if nights start to worsen.

[MommaStorms]

I got a 3 hour nap 
We'll see how tonight goes.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

Oh wow! How did that come about?! Fingers crossed for tonight

[MommaStorms]

4hr45 minute am A I had to resettle him once.

He was asleep in 15 minutes tonight but he's up now (after 1.45hrs of sleep) just screaming 

I guess I need to figure out how I can get him to nap from 2-3:30 bed at 8.

[MommaStorms]

Well, no that won't work either.
He needs 13.5-14hrs of sleep/day.

We do 11 at night, or he doesn't nap. (Unless it's a 1 nap then I think 12 is needed)
Then 2.5 during the day. I can't fit in enough A and enough sleep.

But last night he slept 9:30p-7:30a=10 and then his nap was 3 hrs so by bedtime he had too much again??? I have no clue.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

You might need to start capping the afternoon nap as well then, but if you do then I wouldn't wake in the morning as well.  Or move the afternoon nap slightly earlier so he's a bit less tired going down for it and therefore may sleep less?  If you cap that morning nap to 20 minutes and bring the afternoon nap a bit earlier that should give a decent A til bed...

I well remember A times and sleep needs not adding up to 24 hours. 7 / 8 / 9 / 10 months was really rough for us - we were going through the 2-1 and I dragged it out cos I thought he was too young to solidly be on one nap, but when he started doing 9 hour nights on 2 nap days I had to switch.  He had turned 10 months that well and we had our first 1 nap day at 8 months.  Anyway, we had lots of long NWs and EWs in that time - it was really hard work.  We did come out of it in the end though - nothing lasts forever   And he's a really good sleeper now, too