Help 7.5Mnth Won't Nap during the day

[* Paula *]

Hi all,

I was hoping someone would be able to give me some advice.  My DS is nearly 8mnths old and has now decided that he will not nap during the day.  He is extremely tired, but fights it constantly and refuses to go down to sleep - when put down he constantly screams.

My problem is that I am back at work now and he is being looked after by my MIL.  Although I give times etc when he should go down, I am not sure if he is put down. 

When I pick him up, I will get told he has had 10 minutes if that and that he has just refused to go down.

I do spend a lot of time on this website and do a lot of reading to find out what is best for my lo, but I get told by DP that I read to much and that if he is sleeping 12 hours at night I should not worry.  But I do, as I can see that DS is cranky and by the time it comes to his last bottle he screams and refuses it as he is so tired.

This afternoon, I resorted to sitting him on my lap and singing to him and he fell asleep but this did not last long 15 - 20 minutes if that.

Please give me some advice as I really do not know what to do.  He always used to go down for his naps no problem - they did not last very long 45 minutes to an hour but he seemed happy and content with these having three of them a day.

I must mention that he was in hospital about a month ago with Constipation and Reflux and is still suffering from the constipation, but are slowly getting that under control (fingers crossed).

He does suffer from Talipes but is used to the casts and brace on his leg as he has had these on since he was a week old.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Regards

Paula - Mum to Thomas - 12 July 2005

[* Paula *]

Please can someone give me some advice.

Thanks
Paula

[Mia & Scarlett's Mummy]

Hi Paula

I'm not sure if Ican help but I recognise the desperation in your post and wanted to reply as much to say you are not alone.

So if he's tired by bedtime he obviously is in need of more sleep.  Do you have a wind down routine for naps that your MIL follows?  Mine is very quick with my dd - about 5 minutes (its basically into her room, draw the curtains, change nappy, into sleeping bag, cuddle and suck on dummy and into bed) but if I miss any part out she can't settle.

I know that at daycare my dd couldn't settle for naps until I stayed with her one day and showed the nursery nurses how I settle her off and now she's fine there.  The same with my mom and MIL who are both into accidental parenting big time and think I should walk the floor or rock/jiggle dd to sleep. grrrr....

[corrina01]

Could you post his routine please.

How long have you been back at work?

How many days a week do you do?

[Lucysmom]

Hi there -

Can you post your daily schedule?  I know the days have been wonky recently but it would help to see how long he is awake before naps.  

Also, can you have a conversation with your MIL to find out exactly what is going on during the day?  I know it will be difficult to have this conversation without sounding accussatory, but he is your child and you have every right to know how he is being taken care of.  If she cannot follow through with your wishes, then she forfeits her right to care for your child.  Sorry to be so blunt, but if someone who was not related to you was caring for your son you would not think twice about correcting them and sacking them if they did not do as you instructed.

You are right that 12 hours at night and nothing during the day is not enough.  When babies are not well-rested, they not only are crabby, they are not able to learn as quickly.  Perhaps this will convince your dh that your son needs naps.  Does he want his son to not learn from and experience his environment as quickly as possible?  Sorry if I am sounding bi#chy, but it really annoys me when dh's/dp's do not support what their wives are doing with their children.  I mean, you are absolutely looking out for best interests.

I will check for your post to look over his daily routine. I hope I have not gone overboard here but remember YOU ARE THE MUM, HE IS YOUR CHILD, YOU MAKE THE DECISIONS!  

[* Paula *]

Hi there,

Thank you both for your replies.  I really appreciate it   .

I know exactly what you are saying - he is my son, and I know what is best for him, but I do find that when I am talking to MIL, she does not seem to be listening to me - She is too busy playing with DS.  I do get frustrated, and DP says I am carrying on too much, but I know that I am right, but do not know the right way to approach it.

Anyway.... this is what Thomas's schedule usually looks like:-

6:30 - 7:00 - Wake
7:15 - 8oz Bottle, with cereal (always has his cereal straight after his bottle)
8:30ish - Put him back to bed and he usually goes back to sleep without any problem - he used to sleep for about an hour - but now sometimes am even battling to get him to go down and if he does, it is for a max of 30 minutes or he refuses to go to sleep - even if I try later on in the morning he still refuses to go down - He just screams.
11:30 - Lunch 1 Jar of food, with half a jar of fruit
12:00 - 12:15 - He used to go for a nap for about an hour, but now refuses point blank
2:30 - 7oz Bottle
3:00 - 3:30 He used to go down for a sleep for about an hour
4:45 - Dinner - 1 Jar of food, with half a jar of fruit
6:40 - Bath and play in bath
6:15 - Bottle
6:45 - 7:00 (most of the time 6:45) - go upstairs, put in sleeping bag, give dummy and BOBO (his favourite blankie), and turn his music light on that shines on the ceiling for 10 minutes, and he is usually asleep before the light turns itself off. - Now our bath and bed time routine is still perfect, it is just the naps that he is refusing point blank to go down for.

I have been back at work since the beginning of January and work 5 days a wee, and DS had been really settled with her and it has all just gone wrong over the past 3 or so weeks.  I have gone part-time since the beginning of February finishing at 3:00 to spend a bit more time with DS.  Come to think of it - it was not long after I started going part-time that his whole nap schedule fell apart, although I am not doing anything differently - do you think that could have anything to do with it?

Looking forward to hearing your replies.

Thanks again.

Regards
Paula - Mum to Thomas - 12 July 2005

[Lucysmom]

Hi Paula -

That must be absolutely infuriating when your MIL ignores you by playing with your son!     Perhaps you can post something in the "Relationships" forum about how you can go about dealing with this issue.  I am sure the ladies there will have some good advice whereas I am a bit too hot-headed to offer anything constructive. 

What I think could be happening is that he is simply not tired enough for that first nap.  Since he is getting 12 hours at night and is 7.5 months old, he should be able to be awake longer than 2 hours.  So I would gradually stretch out his awake time to get him properly tired out.

I know you mention that you have tried to put him down later in the morning with no success.  Is it possible that by that point he is actually overtired/overstimulated?  So the first attempt his sleep window was not open, and the second attempt it had already opened and closed IYKWIM.  Just a thought....

Also, could there be something developmental going on?  Like crawling, pulling up, etc.?

I would also look at the EASY forum and browse through the routines people posted to get an idea of what babies his age are doing in terms of awake time and naps.

I don't know if I am helping at all.  I will keep thinking about it and hopefully others will chime in.

[*Natasha*]

How about extending his morning awake time and putting him down for a nap at 9.30am, perhaps he isn't tired enough for a long nap at 8.30am. Also bring his afternoon nap forward as it sounds like by 3pm he is overtired and can't go to sleep. My DD is almost 7 months and goes down for 1x1.5-2hrs and 9.30am and 1x1.5hrs at 2pm and bed at 7pm.

[Colin Macs Mom]

Paula,

I can relate in a way since my mom watches my DS two days a week. I really have no idea what goes on but I don't think she deviates from our wishes too much although I know she does a little. From my perspective in that way I think that you might want to consider staying home from work one or two days and going through the day with your MIL. Literally show her how the day should go, but not in a negative sort of way. For us, since DH is home with DS Mon- Wed, my mom Th-Fri, and then I have him Sat and we both do Sun, if we are not all on the same page (or close) we have problems! I think that too much deviation really messes them up. If you/your DH and your MIL are doing things quite differently, your lo is probably confused and just doesn't know what's supposed to be happening.

[corrina01]

I would extend the morning wake time, (as this has happened to me with my DD in the last 3 weeks).

My DD routine goes like this, it happened all of a sudden so it threw me a bit, as she has been refusing catnap, so we are doing 2 naps at the moment. She was 7.5months as well

6.30am Wake
7.00am Bottle
7.45am Solids
8.50am Bed for 1hr30mins max
10.20am Wake
11.00am Bottle
11.45am Solids
12.50pm-1pm Bed for 2hrs
3.00pm Wake
3.15pm Bottle
Go on errands
4.45pm Solids
5.45pm Bath
6pm-6.15pm Bottle
6.20pm-6.30pm Bed for 12 hrs

If he refuses a nap, keep A time low key so he doesn't get overtired, and an earlier bedtime too, so he is not overtired and wakes early in the morning.

I agree with Jessica (Colin Mac's Mom)  have a couple of days off, and show your MIL how YOU would like it done.  I work 2 days a week, and my mum looks after DD, and she follows her routine to the letter, as I warned her, you will not look after DD if you deviate from her routine.

HTH, please feel free to ask any more questions.

[* Paula *]

Hi All,

Thank you so much for your replies - I have decided to take a couple of days off work next week to try and get Thomas back into his routine.  Hopefully he will be back into some kind of routine in 4 days - or maybe that is wishful thinking - anyway, I am going to try.

I am not sure if it is developmental - He has not tried crawling at all - although I think it may be difficlut for him with his brace on his leg for Talipes.  He is sitting by himself, although he cannot get into a sitting position from lying down, but is trying really hard - could that be considered as developmental?  He definitely does love being on his feet (bouncing on your lap), but again, with the brace on his leg and foot it does make things so much more difficult for him - so again I am not sure if he would try and pull himself up at all.

I have noticed over the past two days that there may be some teeth coming through - although I cannot feel anything, his cheeks are bright red, and he has been getting really ratty - although being over tired does not help that either.  Anyway - could that also be a factor in him not napping properly?

This morning I got him to sleep - although it was not in his cot - accidental parenting I know.  I was running late for work today with all the snow and when I dropped him off at MIL he was over tired as it was about 9:15 - so when I put him down he just started screaming - I tried the PU/PD method, but it did not help he still cried.  I sat him on my knee until he stopped crying and the next thing he was flat out and fell fast asleep. That was my cue to leave for work.  I did find out that he only slept for 40 minutes though.

Once I get him back into his routine of going down for his naps, how will I be able to get him past the 40-45 minute nap time?  I know I need to be tackling things one at a time, but was just curious.

I just want to thank you all again for your support and suggestions it does mean a lot to me.  I am definitely going to look on the EASY forum and see if I can get a few more routines so that I can try and tweak DS's routine.

Thanks again for your support - Will keep you posted on how things go.

Regards
Paula - Mum to Thomas 12 July 2005

[Colin Macs Mom]

Good for you - I think that you'll all be back on track and feeling better after next week. If he is teething or having developmental things going on that could definitely affect his naps too. Still I think it's good for you to spend some time and home and go over the routine with MIL. Sorry, I have no advice for you about the 45 minutes naps though. That's the one problem we have never had! 

[Lucysmom]

Sorry, I have no advice for you about the 45 minutes naps though. That's the one problem we have never had!

Jessica - I officially hate you!!!!!    You amazingly lucky girl to never have been visited by the short nap monster!  It is almost unheard of on this site!  Wow!!!!

[Colin Macs Mom]

Sorry Melissa - but if it makes you feel any better, we have been dealing with the night wakings monster since basically day one. Ironically he's a great napper, always has been. It's just nights that we can't seem to sort out!! 

[corrina01]

Paula,   has he always had 45 mins naps, or is this just since you have been back at work?

[Lucysmom]

Jessica - OK I don't hate you anymore!    Wow that is quite interesting that he is a great napper and has trouble at night.  Any idea why he wakes so much at night?   

[* Paula *]

Hi there,

Me again, once again thanks for the advice and kind words.

I am really looking forward to spending some time with him and trying to get him back on his routine - I feel like I am a woman on a mission.

Corrina - Yes he usually does only sleep for 45minutes to an hour - that is the reason why he is still on 3 naps a day - the shortness of the naps does not really bother me, as when he does have 3 naps a day - he is like a completely different baby.  Although once we do get back on track, I would like to try and get him to nap longer.  When we were overseas, he was a fantastic napper - like 1.5 hours at a time, and if you did not put him down for his naps, the whole house would know about it, but I am sure that had something to do with the altitude and the hot weather as we were in SA.

Thanks again for all your advice.  It is really appreciated.

Paula - Mum to Thomas 12 July 2005

[Colin Macs Mom]

I'm not trying to hijack this post, I swear!

Melissa, I know it is weird. He's very spirited so that makes sleeping a little harder anyhow, but he also has reflux that took quite a while to get under control. Things are great now, but since it took so long I think his wakings are purely habitual. Unfortunately PU/PD doesn't work at all, so that makes things a lot harder too. Sooooooo... it's taken a very long time to see improvement but I finally feel like we're getting there. Now when he wakes (most times) he just talks and doesn't escalate and he eventually gets himself back to sleep. We also weaned him off the one night feed he still was having, and that helped a lot too.

[* Paula *]

Hi All,

Just thought I would check in and let you all know how we are getting on  - I think that face explains it all.

I don't know where the problem is or what MIL is doing - but everytime I have put DS down for a nap he has gone to sleep.  Don't get me wrong, he has had a little wine here and there - which I ignored as he was not crying and the next thing I knew he was fast asleep.  It has been like this since I started re-introducing his routine on Saturday morning and everything has been fine.  DS is happy as he has been napping, and I am happy and I have a happy little chappy.

His naps have not been long enough - maybe an hour at the most, but that is the next problem that I am going to tackle. - One problem at a time.

DP told his mother that DS has been sleeping and that he does not know what they are doing wrong, and she went on the defensive saying - well he must just miss you then that is why he is not sleeping.

To be honest I think they are over stimulating him as they are constantly playing with him and don't give him time to wind down, and when they put him down and he has a little wine that is their cue to say OH HE DOES NOT WANT TO SLEEP and then carry on playing with him - hense the reason of me coming home to an overtierd and overstimulated baby.

I am going round tomorrow to try and re-introduce this routine to them - lets see how they take it and if they listen to me.

Wish me luck 

[corrina01]

Best of luck to you, and I am glad you have a happy little chappy again. 

[* Paula *]

Me again,

Think we might have overcome the 30 minute nap monster.

This morning DS went down for his am nap and I went in to check on him and he had rolled over onto his tummy to go to sleep - He ended up sleeping for an hour like that.  I have tried putting hinm down now for his pm nap on his belly and will see how long it is.

Will keep you posted.

[corrina01]

YAY glad you are on the way there 

[twoblacklabs]

Just wanted to let you know reading this post has made me feel sooo much better - we are in the same situation currently with my lil' Jack (8 mo old).

He just started boycotting naps - seemed to come out of nowhere.  I re-read some of Tracy's book and she says that around this age they need an adjustment in their nap schedule that may take a few weeks to work out.  Jack used to be a solid 3 nap a day (on the shorter side, like your lil guy) and was easy to put down.  Always went down in his crib without a fuss.  Then all of a sudden he started either completely refusing to nap in the crib or he would sleep but for no more than 15 minutes.

He is sleeping now, and its been about 15 minutes, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed and typing very quietly! 

I have chalked it up to several things:
New teeth - just got two, and I think there are more coming
MAJOR changed in mobility - not crawling yet, but sooo close - and doing just about everything else to get around
He's realized there is fun stuff going on during non-nap time and doesn't want to miss anything
He is sometimes probably overtired/stimulated and we need to cool it a little bit, particularly around naptimes

Your post helped me see there are things I can do and I don't have to just give up and forget naps... he needs them, I know he needs them, and we are gonna keep working on it til we figure out what kind of nap schedule works for him now that he's changing so much.

Best of luck, and thanks for sharing!