Does Your 2 yr old sleep LESS than 12 hours a day??? Support Here!

[mattandcindy]

Hi!
Abigail will be 2 next week. She sleeps 10.5 hrs at night (11 if I am LUCKY!) and sleeps anywhere from 1-1.5 hrs at naptime. Her total sleep for a 24 hr period is less than 12 hours usually.
She usually wakes happy, therefore I think this is just the amount of sleep she needs.
But.....It is very tiring having a toddler awake for so much of the day!
Our day started today at 5:55am (Actually it started at 5am as ds is sick right now!)

Anyway, anyone else have a toddler who just doesn't sleep much?
Can we all share stories and help keep each other sane?

[kiersten's mom]

Hi
my dd is exactly the same and she will be two on sunday.. I feel what you are saying, I am totally exhausted by the end of the day and it really is hard to keep her occupied all day long.. she is an only child so when we are not at play groups/ classes I am her best friend.

I went to the bw activity board and got some toddler activity ideas and try to do a couple each day.  I really found those helpful and it leaves me from trying to decide what to do next.

Hugs to you I am right there with you.. Coffee has become my new best friend!

[Layla]

I'm in! My dd will only do 10.5 hrs at night (I've had to push her bedtime to 7pm, asleep by 7.20) and is wide awake at 6am. She will occasionally take a 2hr nap but 6/7 days its 1.5 hrs. I am also pulling my hair out. I really can't go out for long because the baby takes her morning nap at 9-10.30am so that leaves me 1-1.5hr window to take the girls out to the park. Then we come back in time for toddler to eat and go to sleep. The baby is still awake for another hour and by the time the baby goes down to nap, 1/2hr later the toddler is awake. We then have to wait for the baby to wake up from her nap and we have another 2hrs or so before dinner and bedtime routine. The baby's bedtime is 6ish so I more or less have to be home by 5pm.

Mind you all the times that the baby is asleep I am trying to keep the toddler quiet and that is just sooo hard.

I cannot wait for the baby to go down to 1 nap (but knowing my luck by that time the toddler will outgrow naps altogether  ).

Layla

[mattandcindy]

Yeah! Okay, I am not happy that your lo's are not sleeping but I am glad there are other's in my boat!!!!!

Layla-I am EXACTLY in the same boat! Sam takes a nap from 9-11:15 and then Abigail eats about 11:30 and they are both down by 1pm. Then Sam sleeps until 3:15 and goes back down at 4:30! So unless I am willing to ruin one of Sam's naps than we don't go out ever! I am blessed with a great sleeper in Sam but it is almost a curse because he sleeps ALOT and therefore we can't go out!!!! I totally feel your pain. And I think the same thing, "Oh my gosh-Once Sam goes down to two naps Abigail isn't going to be napping anymore!"

Kiersten's Mom-Welcome. I too am now a caffeine addict!!!! What time does your lo get up in the morning???


We are going to Laguna Beach on Sunday. We will all be sleeping in the same room so I guess we will all start our day at 6am! Ugh!

[Mum to cool dude]

Last night, DS was asleep by 9.15 pm and he was up this morning at 6.15 am. I told the staff at nursery to let him nap longer than their allowed 2 hours in the hope that he's not overtired at bedtime and can fall asleep without struggle.

Oh yes, the days are long and I need the nap more than he does !

[imsmum]

My dd who is 28 months has ALWAYS slept at least an hour less than "average" if not more.  Before she turned 2 she would do a 10 hour night and 2 hour nap but lately it's down to 11.5 hours, in any combination ranging from no nap and an 11.5 hour night to a 2 hour nap, 9.5 hour night sleep.

Although Margot usually falls asleep between 8 and 8:30 and is up around 6:30 I keep my sanity by putting her in her crib no later than 7:45 and not getting her until as close to 7 am as I can push it.  Her older sister who is 6 has always needed more than the average sleep and still sleeps at least 11 hours at night--I figure that once Margot drops her nap the girls will likely be on the same schedule although my older dd is 3.5 years older!!

Until then we are as quiet as a crypt during Margot's nap and sleep times, since I swear she wakes if someone sneezes 3 houses over!  I hate making the rest of the family be so quiet, I feel like a big meany, but Margot slips into overtiredness so easily that I feel like I will do anything to protect what little sleep she does get, including being up half the night to poke dh whenever he snores too loudly!  I'm looking forward to the days when sleep isn't such an obsession.

[mattandcindy]

Hi Sophie and Imsmum. Welcome!!!

I know what you mean about being quiet. This morning dh got up at 5:40 to get ready for work. He stepped on the floor and it squeaked and thus Abigail was awake for the morning. (Two rooms over with all the doors shut!)
Has anyone tried a white noise machine? I am getting desperate as 5:40am is TOO early. So she did 10 hr night and I know she won't do more than a 1.5 hr nap....

[PeepersMom]

PJ is 18months and I fear we are in the same boat.  He sleep more then your lo's but I betcha by 2 he'll be on 10.5 hour night and 1.5 hour nap.  He does that now on some days.  Other days he sleeps 12 at night and 2 hours nap - go figure.  But the days are so long and uncertain!

But like imsmum I put PJ down at bedtime 7-7:15 and some nights he is asleep and some nights he is up until 830, also I never get him out of the crib before 7 am.  He is still sleeping pretty close to 7 am, but even if he was up for the day at 5:40 I would leave him in the crib until 7.  He seems to know that, too. 

Nap time I put him down at 12-12:30 and i try very hard to leave him in the crib 2 hours if he is up before the 2 hour point.  That is much harder to do as he seems to be a kiddo that wakes from his nap cranky.  No matter how much or little sleep he gets at nap he usually wakes up at least a little grumpy and sometimes screaming bloody murder and always needs lots of cuddles when he wakes up, so pushing him to 2 hours in the crib if he only slept 1h20min is usually hard.

Anyway, that is what we do now.

Meg

[kim&savannah]

We also have a very active, not so sleepy girl   Although I have to say that she's actually been sleeping more at night the last few months--sometimes 12 or 13 hours (of course, that's because she now only takes a nap a couple times a week if we're lucky), so maybe some of your LO's will grow into that as well--we used to be awake between 5 and 6 pretty much every day, but now get up around 7/7:30 most days.

I agree that it is totally exhausting to just not get a break--so many days I'm counting down until we can get her into bed just so I won't have to listen to the constant talking--even during "nap" time, I can't get her to be quiet--she stays in her room, which I'm grateful for, but she's singing at the top of her lungs most of the time and our house isn't all that big so there's not place to escape her!

But at the same time, I do love her energy! 

~Kim

[Carys' mom]

My dd is the same. She will be 2 this week, and always wakes somewhere between 5am and 5:45am. We put her down at 7:30pm, so she usually only gets 10 hours or less sleep at night. She almost never wakes up "happy" - she cries out for either dh or me and wants to go downstairs immediately. Her naps aren't great either usually. Often she'll wake at an hour and 10 min. or so, and won't go back to sleep in her crib, so I bring her down in the rocking chair, and she sometimes will go to sleep in my lap for another hour! She's a spirited little girl, and has lots of energy during the day. I just wish she would sleep!!! I've got another one on the way, and I don't know how I'm going to handle it .

[mattandcindy]

Hey Melanie-HUGS to you. You must be feeling exhausted these days being only 12 weeks pregnant. I remember the sheer exhaustion I felt in the first trimester. It does get better-I promise! And you will figure it all out with having two. My saving grace is that my ds LOVES to sleep so I am only only dealing with one non sleeper!

Kim-Sounds like our girls are the same. Sometimes I just want Abigail to STOP talking for 5 minutes. I swear the girl doesn't stop for a breath all day long!

Meg-Abigail wakes up grumpy alot too. And if that is the case I have to go up there immediately or she escalates to the point where I can't calm her down. Isn't it a bummer??

We have an alarm clock in Abigail's room with the minutes covered with a sticky. We put the number 7 on it and told her she couldn't get up until the numbers matched. So for the last week every morning no matter what time she wakes I don't go get her until 7 am. Most mornings I don't have to go in before 7 but she has a cold now so sometimes I have to go in and give her a tissue and sing one song...

[Alison_3]

Right there with all of you.  On a good day Ben sleeps 10 hours at night and a one hour nap.  He's an early riser.  We've played around with his bedtime, but nothing really seems to work.  Last night he was asleep at 8:00 and woke at 6:20.  That might have been the best night of sleep he had EVER!  It snowed here yesterday and he was outside playing so I think he was exhausted.  (also took a 45 minute nap yesterday!!)  I can't wait for warmer weather so he can burn some energy outside.  I think that is part of the problem. 

What time do you have your active 2 year old take a nap?  The reason I ask is because sometimes Ben gets up at 5:00 a.m. and other days 6:00 and anywhere in-between.  Today he napped at 12:50, but when he wakes at 5:00 a.m. he can't make it that long.  I just  can't figure him out! 

He does need more sleep because he is miserable when he gets up from a short nap.  I'm exhausted too because I have a six week old!  I did get Ben back to going to sleep on his own so I thought that would help him sleep longer, but no luck!

It is nice to know I'm certainly not alone.  My mother keeps reminding me that one day I will have to drag him out of bed.  Right now I don't ever see that day happening!

[imsmum]

Alison

One thing I do with Margot that seems to work for her is on the days that she has had NW's or an early wake up I put her down for her nap about 20-30 minutes early and then put her down for bed about an hour early.  Sometimes the nap is a bit short but I found that if I try to push her to her regular time she may or may not nap great but in either case it prevents her from going down early to bed that night which is what she really needs to catch up on sleep--nap time doesn't do that for her anymore, it just keeps her going during the day. Not sure if that would help with Ben but it sounds like you should stick with that 8 pm bedtime!

[mattandcindy]

Alison-HUGS to you. It is hard with the two so young and one that doesn't like to sleep!
I put Abigail down for her nap at 12ish. I used to do 1pm but she was taking 45 minute naps and
the only thing I could figure out was that she was overtired. Now I feed her lunch at 11am (which
seems freakishly early to me) and I put her down anywhere between 12-12:30. But I must admit
I play around with it some depending on what time my ds (5 months old) is going down. If they
don't go down together and I don't get a break then the day seems awful.
And Abigail wakes up at 6am most mornings and goes down at 7:30pm.

[lilmonkey]

Can I join?  Dd has always required less sleep than the average for her age.  Her night time sleep is roughly about 10 - 10.5 hrs long depending on her nap.  It is so funny as I used to PRAY that dd would consolidate the naps into one so we could do things outside of the house.  Now, I'm praying that dd would nap more often or at least go to bed earlier or sleep in later just so I can take a break or clean the house of her toys!  It's also hard now being pregnant as I can't seem to get enough energy to play with her.  I can't imagine what her naps would be like when the baby is here. 

[Luisasmum]

I'm jumping in here too! I have a 2 year old who has never been a good sleeper but has been getting worse. She dropped from 3 naps to 1 at about age 1 and now she is starting to drop that nap all together. She sleeps about 10 hours a day total and that's a good day. I can't seem to work out a pattern for her. I've tried a short nap, long nap, no nap, early nap, late nap, wearing her out in the morning, wearing her out in the afternoon, quiet time instead of nap, long bedtime ritual, short bedtime ritual - she just HATES sleeping. She will wake once or twice during the night either screaming hysterically or just asking for a drink and then she'll surprise me and sleep through an entire 12 hours but that is VERY rare. I am so confused I just don't know what to do anymore. She doesn't eat much either so she's often grumpy as you can imagine.

Tomorrow I am going to try getting back to basics. A 6am wakeup regardless of what time she went to bed, then an early nap at 11.30am of 1.5 hours then lights out at 7.00pm and asleep at 7.30pm hopefully. Something's gotta work.

Sleep tight!

[mattandcindy]

Well Ladies-Abigail went to bed last night at 7:30pm and it is now 6:25am and she is still asleep 
I can't believe it. I am sure this means though that she will only do a 45 minute nap!!!

[Alison_3]

What time did Abigail wake up?  What was her nap like?  I am hoping she starts a positive trend for all of us!

Ben was up at 5:40 and took a one hour nap.  He slept a total of 10.5 hours today.  When do you think a toddler is old enough to try the you can't come out of your room until the light (on a timer) comes on?  I'm not sure it would work with Ben, but anything is worth a try! 

I did actually have 30 minutes to myself today...Ben and Charlie's naps overlapped for the first (and probably last!) time.  I'll take it.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed than no one has to get up before 6:00 tomorrow!

[kim&savannah]

Guess I shouldn't complain too much since our day didn't start until about 6:45, but Savannah went down at 7:15, was awake crying about who knows what from 12:00-1:00 a.m., so only 10.5 hours for her, and totally interrupted sleep for us   I wouldn't mind quite so much if she really only needed that much, but she's been pretty grouchy lately and cries about EVERYTHING!  SHe needs more sleep!!!!!

And of course she won't take a nap, I'm sure (she's only taken one in the last week and only cause I layed there until she fell asleep--but I can't do that if Abe's awake because she is too hyper when he's around).

Who would have thought our 2.5 year old would be causing us more sleep deprivation than our newborn?  (not that his sleep is good--but he seems to need a lot more than his sister did, so that's a nice change--and gives me hope for the future with him).

~Kim

[mattandcindy]

Hey Ladies!
I just wanted to do a quick roll call. Here is what I have got so far!

Cindy-mom to Abigail 2, Sam 5 months
Kierstens Mom-mom to Kiersten 2
Layla-mom to Isabella 2, Jasmine 9 months
Sophie-mom to boy 2yrs???
Imsmum-mom to Margot 2
Meg-mom to PJ 18 months
Kim-mom to Savannah 2, boy 3 months
Melanie-mom to Cary 2, and pregnant
Alison-mom to Ben 2, Charlie 2 months
lil monkey-mom to Girl 2yrs, and pregnant
Luisasmum-mom to Luisa 2, Rocco 4 months

Is this all correct???

I find it interesting that many of us are either pregnant with our second or just recently (in the last 9 months) had our second. Could this be causing some of the problem? Were we all just crazy to have another!

And to those of you who have 2, is your younger one a better sleeper?
Sam (5 months) puts Abigail to shame! He is such a great sleeper.
I guess God doesn't give us more than we can handle right?

Kim-I completely understand, I always thought I would be sleep deprived after Sam but it is Abigail who causes my sleep deprivation!

Alison-Abigail woke up about 30 seconds after I posted that! But she did do a 1.5 hr nap so I guess I can't complain!

[Carys' mom]

Hi Cindy,
It looks like you've got the roll call right, except my dd's name is Carys (rhymes with Paris) - no biggie - mistakes happen a lot with her name. By the way, Carys' napping has gotten worse lately. She's been sleeping around an hour and 10 or 15 min. and then won't go back to sleep in either her crib or in the rocking chair with me. And she's only been getting about 9hrs, 45 min. of night sleep.

[mattandcindy]

Oops Melanie-Sorry about that-I should know better-Abigail has a friend carys in her gymboree class!
And sorry about the naps going to pot. That happened with Abigail about 2 weeks ago and I had to
actually start putting her down earlier for her nap and it got better. What time does she wake up in
the morning and what time does she go down for her nap? Abigail is up at 6am usually! And I put her
down at 12:30ish for her nap....could she be overtired? Also, has she gotten her 2 year old molars yet?
I know this is currently bothering Abigail!

[Carys' mom]

Hi Cindy - no problem on the name . Carys usually wakes around 5:30am, but sometimes 5:15am - way too early! Lately, I have been putting her down at 11:45am for her nap (it used to be noon or 12:15pm). I don't really want to put her down earlier than that because she'll have a super long stretch of day after her nap to get through. We put her to bed at 7:30 or 7:45pm. It could be her molars - they still haven't come through. I'm hoping that when all her teeth are finally in, she will sleep better.

[mommy2connor]

Hi all,

Okay if I jump in? My DS is not even two yet - he's only 19 months and consistently sleeps less than 10 hours at night and fights his nap pretty much every day. This has been going on for a while. His laundry list of sleep issues include: long fall-asleep time, late fall-asleep time, early wake-ups, short sleep duration, refusal to nap. Here's his typical schedule:

5:45 am: Awake
6:30 am: Breakfast
11:00 am: Lunch
12:30 pm-2:00 pm: Nap (if he does)
7:00 pm: In Bed
8:00 pm: Asleep

I feel your frustration, and it hurts me even more as he's still so young!!! I've tried everything to try to get him sleeping better (even hired a sleep consultant for $295), but things seem to get worse all the time, not better.

I just don't know what to do anymore!

[mattandcindy]

Wow Chrissy. Sorry to hear about your sleep problems.
I am so curious, what is a "sleep consultant"? And did she give you a refund
when it didn't work!?!?!?
Maybe an earlier naptime? Seems like maybe almost 7 hrs is too long to go before nap?
Just a thought?

[Alison_3]

I have to tell you since I got Ben to go to sleep on his own, (AGAIN!!) he is sleeping much better (for him!).   He has been sleeping 8:00-6:00 almost all week.  The naps aren't great, but I'll take it.  Now if I only I could get Charlie to sleep more than three hours at night!  I think he's following in his brother's footsteps as far as sleeping goes and with his reflux!  I can handle the sleeping, but I was really hoping to see what is was like to have a non-refluxer!  Oh well, in the whole scheme of things I could have much worse problems.

How is everyone else doing?

[Colesmom]

Hey girls,

Add me to the list   Cole typically does 12 hours total, 10 at night and it's broken sleep as he's still waking and 2 for nap.  the longer nap is the only thing that keeps me sane (And I work, so I only have two days of insanity!)  His schedule is like this:

wake 6:30ish (on the couch, with me  )
7:00 breakfast
8:30 snack
11:30 lunch
12:30-2:30 sleep
~2:45 snack (or when calm from waking, always clingy and grumpy when waking)
6:00 dinner
~ 8:30 pm bedtime.

Bedtime is usually exactly, within 5 minutes, after 12 hours of AWAKE time. so, with a 6:30 wake and 2 hour nap, he goes to sleep at 8:30.  If he has a 1.5 hour nap, he'll go to sleep at 8pm.  I have to time his bedtime precisely on the 12 hour schedule or we get lots and lots and lots of tears.  Last week was our first cry-free bedtime since he was born.  And the first time he lay down happily and I covered him up with his blanket.  Of course, we've had tears again over the weekend, but I think he's getting teeth. 

I'm working on GW and I'm ALMOST out of the room.  I'm dreading that step though...as I'm sure it will involve lots of tears again.  His room is very small, so even though I have been moving away from his crib in increments...i'm still only about 4 feet away.  Yesterday for nap was the FIRST time I said "want to go in your crib with woof woof?" and he said YES!!! I lay him down and he just said "hold my back mama".  Even though I've been doing GW at night, I've still been holding him for naps, so this was a HUGE step.  Of course, last night he wanted me to hold his back again.  Anyway, I used to have to hold his hand or rock him for all sleeps so this is much improved.

I'm still going on the couch at night when he wakes (usually around 1:30am)  I want to get out of the room at bedtime and see if it helps his waking, before working on that.  One thing at a time to keep me sane.

He has never gone to bed happily, and always wakes crying so it's a LONG day for me.  I have never been able to let him "play" in his crib before or after sleep.  I'm not pregnat YET, but if/when it happens I sure hope #2 is a better sleeper or I will go koo koo

ahhh, thanks for letting me share 

I wanted to share a quote I read somewhere.  "You can't assume your child needs less sleep unless they are sleeping through the night and taking proper naps for their age".  I always thought Cole just needed less sleep.  So I am continuing to work on his night sleep until he sleeps through, then I will reassess.

wishing you all many sleep filled days and nights

[mommy2connor]

Hi Cindy,

Thanks for your reply. We have two sleep consultants that work in our area (Vancouver, Canada). Basically, you hire them for a lot of money, to lay out a sleep plan for you to help your child sleep better. It's like having someone guide you through a sleep book in the flesh. Honestly, she didn't really have anything new or groundbreaking to tell me. I was pretty much already doing everything "right". In the end, she still couldn't help us! And no, there are no refunds!

I'll definitely try the earlier nap as that's what I did yesterday and it worked like a charm. But Connor's a "patternless" child, and never repeats his past successes, even if I duplicate the entire routine, down to the minute! He's just a stubborn little guy. I'm starting to realize that he is just a LO who needs little sleep. Sigh!

Chrissy

[lilmonkey]

Traci - have you try making his room warmer/cooler?  Although dd has a blanket, I found that dd sleeps better if her room is about 22 degrees C in the winter and about 19 degrees during the summer.  Of course this doesn't eliminate the nw but it does reduces it significantly.  Also, when I was trying to get dd to fall asleep indep., I often use a small pillow and placed it next to her.  It gives the impression that she is nested.  Good luck with the GW.

Could you ladies help me?  Would you sacrifice a long nap to get your lo to sleep longer at night?  After recovering from the stomach flu and a nasty cold within the last few weeks, dd's sleep has suffered.  I have worked on getting her nap to be back at around 2.5 hrs but her bedtime is getting later and later.  Yesterday it was 9:30 pm and tonight was 9:15 pm.  She now wakes at 6 or 6:15 am and nap time is about 6 hrs of awake time.  I want my 8 pm bedtime back as I am really tired by dinner time (6 pm).  I have tried shortening her nap to about 2 hrs but it didn't last.  The girl loves her nap - once she's asleep!   

Mimi

[mattandcindy]

Mimi-Honestly, that is up to you. I would prefer longer nighttime sleep than a longer nap but I think everyone has different preferences. If Abigail isn't in bed by 7:30pm I freak because then my time with dh suffers and I LOVE my time with dh. My dh gets up really early for work and therefore we have to go to bed by 9pm so it is really important to us that dd is in bed by 7:30pm.

Chrissy-I totally hear you on the "patternless child". I get so excited when Abigail does something new in the sleep area, but she too never repeats it. We are on vacation in Laguna Beach right now and I thought she would sleep later because of all the activity but no, she is still up at 6am!!!! Not much of a vacation here!

Alison-I am SO sorry you have two refluxers. Abigail is a severe refluxer and I was SO worried about Sam. He has been great up until the last 4 weeks. It seems like he is getting reflux which I didn't think they could get this late but maybe so? Reflux messes with their sleeping so bad though! I feel your pain!

Colesmom-Welcome! I have a quick question. What is GW? Sounds like you spend ALOT of time with Cole during the day. Here is to hoping he can become a more independent sleeper and you can have some more YOU time!

Hope everyone else is doing great!

[Mum to cool dude]

Mimi,

Charlie (2 years 3 months) used to go be asleep by 9.30 pm. Now it's between 8.30 pm and 9 pm usually. What I did is:

- stick to the bedtime timetable religiously - we used to be lax before
- turn the lights off earlier and earlier progressively - I am aiming for 8 pm but it's usually 8.15 pm

He's sleeping much better recently and this has got something to do with the fact that he's falling asleep independently finally. One thing that has helped is making his sleep environment more cosy (the bears go in bed, he has a pillow because he wanted Mummy's and now he sleeps with Mummy's special blanket - nothing fancy, but it's another comfort object)

HTH xx

[lilmonkey]

Sophie - I have will try to turn off the lights earlier.  Our bedtime routine has been fairly consistent since she was 3 mos.  Bath, book with milk, cuddles, lights out.  I guess that I have been lax in turning off the lights as she keeps on asking for another Franklin book!  Well, it's 6 am and the princess is calling.  I heard her roll around at 5:30  but I guess she didn't want to go back to sleep.     Gotta go.

[Luisasmum]

Well, I hope everyone is going better than we are here! I am pretty much over it right now. The girl just isn't tired when she goes to bed. It's as simple as that. Today she had a 1 hour nap at 2.00pm and we took the kids to the playground after dh got back from work. Despite the active evening and fresh air, she still wasn't tired by 9.00pm but we went off to bed anyway. Reluctantly, she allowed me to leave the room at 9.30pm and I haven't heard a peep from her since. This is a vast improvement on the recent run of 11.00 and 12.00 bedtimes. So she's half way to getting a sticker in the morning. Now all she has to do is sleep through! Dh has promised her an in-car DVD player if she gets 30 stickers. Has it really come to this??!!

And just to make you all feel better...My SIL told me her friend has a ten year old boy who STILL has trouble falling asleep and wakes anywhere between three and five times a night!! God help us all!!